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Fallen_soul
3rd September 2004, 02:57
Ok, i have a question based on the old way of Okinawa-Te.

The three main types of Te were Nahe-Te, Shuri-Te, and Tomari-Te. My question, is that i thought i read somewhere that one was mainly offensive, one was mainly defensive, and the other was mainly grappling, and of course now i can't find it again. Which one was which, or did i read wrong, or what is the real answer here regarding these styles.

Any help would be much appreciated as always. Thanks in advance guys (and girls).

Robby Bray
4th September 2004, 02:23
You read it wrong. One was a newer way. The other were older ways of combining te with china hand.

Robby Bray
4th September 2004, 02:29
Sorry David. Didn't mean to sound so harsh. What I meant to say was that I think you may have read it wrong, or your source may not have been as accurate as you thought.

Casey001
4th September 2004, 07:46
Joe Swift published this on a public forum some years ago.

"Gima Shinkin, a student of Itosu, Yabu Kentsu and later of Funakoshi Gichin, states in the 1986 book "Taidan: Kindai Karatedo no Rekishi wo Kataru" (Conversations on the History of Modern Karatedo) by Gima Shinkin and Fujiwara Ryozo, that when he was growing up in Okinawa in the early part of this century, the terms Shuri-di and Naha-di were never heard or used.

Iwai Tsukuo, in his 1994 book "Koden Ryukyu Karatejutsu" (Old Style Ryukyu Karatejutsu), states that in January 1927, prefectural officials at the Okinawa Prefectural Board of Education assigned these names in place of Toudi. He goes on to state that when Funakoshi heard about this from Mabuni, he could barely conceal his surprise!

These terms, IMHO, had become so imbedded in the culture of the times, probably to emophasize the local development of the art, rather than its (obvious) Chinese origins, that they were quickly accepted, and are kind of stuck in place today, even in Okinawa itself. And guess what, none of the pre-war books on karate that I have seen to date make any reference to these terms!!!

There is one person we can look at here. He is Aragaki Seisho (1840-1920). His kata of Sanchin, Seisan, Sanseiru, and Pechurin were carried on in Higashionna Kanryo's tradition, which many will tell you is "Naha-di." (See the research of Tokahsiki Iken and others). HOWEVER, his kata of Unshu, Niseishi and Sochin are naught to be found in Higashionna's tradition, but in some of the modern Shorin styles, Shotokan and others that many try and tell us are the "Shuri-di" styles... Hmmm, why is that?"

Katsujinken
4th September 2004, 15:00
Shoshin Nagamine (2000) Tales of Okinawan Great Masters states on page 138:

'There is every reason to believe that tegumi, after being enhanced by striking and grappling techniques, also served as the progenitor of te'.

He continues:
'While the tradition was called tegumi in Naha, it was known as Mutuo in both Tomari & Shuri, where it remained a popular cultural recreation until the Taisho period'.

The term Mutuo is the term used to describe the Basic Hand techniques in Motobu Udun Ti and Bugeikan Te, these styles combine striking (Kyusho Jutsu) and grappling (Tuitte).

Tegumi is also the progenitor of Okinawan Sumo.

Quote:
'January 1927, prefectural officials at the Okinawa Prefectural Board of Education assigned these names in place of Toudi'.

Bishop (1999:11) States: 'The terms Naha Te, Shuri Te & Tomari Te were the somewhat confusing categories given by local townspeople to the Karate taught at Naha, Shuri & Tomari'.


Regards