BSKF Taikai [Archive]

Kimpatsu

28th September 2004, 16:38

Originally posted by David Dunn
BTTT for this one. - don't be shy. Making an embu is very valuable training, and one of the most rewarding parts of Shorinji Kempo.
Hear, hear! With bells on!
Today I attended my first Kawasaki block gôdô renshu; (group training), and we started to create a group embu of 12 people for use at a demo we're giving on 7 November. Wish us luck...
On a personal note, it was embu that got me into Shorinji Kempo in the first place. As I've mentioned on this forum before, I spent five months driving around London looking at different arts and clubs before selecting Shorinji Kempo as the art for me. The greatest selling point was definitely embu. (Obviously, I knew nothing of hôkei or such back then.) It looked to me like a kung fu movie come alive.
Kesshu.

Tripitaka of AA

28th September 2004, 18:31

Originally posted by Kimpatsu
It looked to me like a kung fu movie come alive.

Oh, you must have been watching my "Drunken Master vs Tibetan Llama[sic]" Embu.

Seriously David, are you still suffering a shortage of forms? Is it poor attention to paperwork, or a serious lack of competing Kenshi? I could believe the former, but not the latter. Like Kimpatsu said (and many other Kenshi have said before and since), Embu is ... damnit there just don't seem to be the words to describe it. Think of all the faces on the gold medal winners from the last Olympics, THAT's the kind of feeling you can get...

So if you think you'd like to be Kelly Holmes, or Mathew Pinsent, get your Embu sorted and go for it.

Oh and it also forms a crucial part of your regular training and you can only get better by practice (this is also handy, as by practice, you can only get better).

David Dunn

28th September 2004, 22:09

David, there's nine days till the deadline, so it's just a reminder.

The main point is that if you haven't already made an embu it is by no means too late. My personal opinion is that kenshi make embu too much of a chore. "Composing" a basic embu is easy. If you spend weeks trying to find the perfect sequence, you waste too much time. Better to get something together that flows nicely - that's easy because hokei is the basis. Then simply practice it over and over again. See George's article on the BSKF website.

Arai and Yamazaki Sensei's opening embu sequence (for the last 20 years by the looks of it) is beautiful: keri ten san followed by oshi uke nage.

Kimpatsu

29th September 2004, 02:57

This thread has now taken on special resonance for me, particularly the last two posts, as at training last night, Sanagi Sensei said that we're doing a demonstration on 7 November, and ordered us all to prepare embu for the event.

David Dunn

7th October 2004, 00:25

Right, it's 24 hours to the deadline. I have some entry forms, notably Mayfair, Southampton, City University, Bristol, UWE, and a verbal one from Bournemouth.

Sensei has asked me to explain that 'zero entries from any dojo is not good enough', and particularly any yudansha that attend who do not have an embu had better have a good excuse.

If I may be candid, please consider the amount of effort that has been put into this event by Mizuno Sensei, by George and many behind the scenes helpers. Several "old boys" from the BSKF are making the trip to support the BSKF, not to mention the instructors, the display team and a whole lot of other people. If you think you "haven't got time" please reconsider. Especially yudansha, you can make an embu in two hours and practice it for a few more. That is what it appears like if you don't enter - that you couldn't be bothered to invest a few hours. In Uzbekistan me and George made an embu on the day of the demonstration. Bit rough around the edges, might well have developed it given some more time, but essentially okay. Wouldn't have won any prizes, but that's not the point. There must be at least four lessons left for most people. Haven't got a partner? The new rules mean that you don't have to be the same grade. Mixed pairs are also good. Put your name on the form tomorrow and take the plunge. Remember our entries in next year's World Taikai are going to be selected - you can't win it if you're not in it.

On a lighter note, this is going to be simply, far and away, the best event the BSKF has ever had. There are going to be eight 8th and 7th Dans teaching. Anyone that can't train, that wants to demonstrate their support - including non-shorinji kenshi - the demonstration will also be exceptional.

Tripitaka of AA

7th October 2004, 05:26

I'm hundreds of miles away from David and I can feel his anguish from here... of course I may also be feeling the collective frustration of the BSKF Technical Committee and the rest of the organisation. Or then again, it may ust be the reflection of my own considerable frustration at not being able to attend and take part for myself.

If I could reach any of you from inside the screen of your computers, consider yourself slapped with a large wet hallibut. Without wishing to resort to expletives or displays of physical aggression, I would seriously like to kick some bottoms :(.

If shyness is causing people to be reluctant (and the thought of all those senior practitioners could be a bit scary for the wallflowers), then they ought to consider the collective impact on the reputation of the BSKF if the event is reduced to a display by the visitors, without any apparent enthusiasm from the host Federation. It is not easy to put in words, but if any of you have ever wondered what Mizuno Sensei is like when he's angry (and this is a man whose general demeanour makes "mild-mannered" Clark Kent look too aggressive), I must say that it is NOT something to be forgotten easily.

If the 30th anniversary means nothing else, then it marks 30 years of personal sacrifice and devotion of the Chief Instructor. Dedication and commitment to bringing Kaiso's teachings to a new country sounds oh so easy, but this involved moving his whole life away from friends and family for an ideal. Anyone who has moved away from home (to a new town or even just down the road) will be familiar with the feelings of isolation and self-doubt. The best way to show gratitude and respect to this man is by showing how much you enoy the Shorinji Kempo that he has given you. Which is jolly nice really when you realise that this is also the way that will give YOU the most pleasure too.

It almost goes without saying that each and every instructor also deserves this reciprocating display of thanks. Hell, it's not like they're asking for donations of blood or money!

OK, now I'm getting a little angry. I'm off to the local fishmonger so I can get a large supply of assorted catch-of-the-day. If you don't want me round at your house, you'd better get your "act" together before the deadline. Consider this a friendly warning...

tony leith

7th October 2004, 09:56

I absolutely accept the right of those organising the Tai Kai to reprove the rest of us for not getting our arses in gear in time - I DO NOT accept that you, Mr. Noble, have any right to do it on their behalf. For the last two months, I have been teaching in almost every class I've attended, and for about a month until a few weeks ago due to an unfortunate (for me and doubtless for the students) combination of circumstances I was basically the only dan grade actually teaching in Glasgow. I am therefore not about to take any lectures in the loyalty I owe to Mizuno Sensei from somebody who last trained in 1988.

If I could reach any of you from inside the screen of your computers, consider yourself slapped with a large wet hallibut. Without wishing to resort to expletives or displays of physical aggression, I would seriously like to kick some bottoms .

Better get back into training then, eh?

Tony Leith

Tripitaka of AA

7th October 2004, 12:46

And, of course, you have a very good point. :(

I'm sorry.

My invective was may very well have been highly offensive to those of you who regularly and determinedly sweat it out in the Dojo, giving of yourself at every opportunity. My "independent" status, I thought, allowed me an opportunity to voice some feelings that may have been inappropriate for anyone currently holding rank or position within the organisation. Perhaps I am deluding myself once more... my honest intentions were to stir those people who perhaps could not see for themselves the impression that their actions were likely to give to the guests and organisers.

I am sorry Tony. My comments seem to have touched a nerve. I have to say that I don't think I was really aiming so high... to my mind, it goes without saying that someone of your undoubted level of commitment would already be bending over backwards to meet the requirements of the Taikai (along with all the other responsibilities that come with running two clubs). No, my comments were really aimed at chudan, the bulk of the Kenshi, the massed ranks of the freshly washed. The regular class-members who haven't quite grasped that they have a place in the organisation as a whole. They represent the "current" Kenshi of Great Britain and if they don't yet realise it, they also represent ALL of Mizuno Sensei's teaching output of the last 30 years. Tony, I know YOU get it... it's all the other folk who I was trying to motivate.

I was at College many years ago when one of the lecturers was coming up to a retirement. Now I'd only been taught by this chap for a term and a half, but it was really obvious that I'd be remembering his mannerisms and personality for years to come (along with a fair amount of the "Digital Techniques" that he was teaching - no pun intended :nono ), but none of his ex-students would even be aware of his leaving. When I filled out his leaving card, I tried to find words to express gratititude on behalf of myself... and went on to try and relay what I considered would be the impressions of ALL the others who had gone before. Of course it was presumptious of me, but I think he deserved more than he was getting from just one batch out of the whole load of students that had passed by.

I've been on the wrong end of an embarrassing faux pas made by British Kenshi, that had apparently caused MIzuno Sensei to "lose face" among the WSKO Taikai organisers. It was a simple mistake for us insensitive Gaijin (some of the BSKF members had declined the offer of a trip to Tokyo Disneyland, without realising that the offer was already paid for and wasn't really an optional thing, but more of a thank you very much thing). My memories of Mizuno Sensei's short lecture are VERY VIVID even now... and I am passing along my thoughts so that such a thing may be avoided.

Tony, please tell me anytime if you feel I should shut up. I cannot contribute to Shorinji Kempo in any tangible way, other than my contributions on here and other noticeboards. If you (or anyone else) feel that I am overstepping the mark, or getting too big for boots, etc. please tell me. I know I can't stop by the Dojo for a chat, so the cold faceless PM or thread entry will have to suffice. You surely know by now that I am harmless ;).

Now then. That said... I hope the rest of you are all filling out your entry forms right now! My car boot is fully loaded with haddock, Plaice and there are some choice Cod all available for shirkers and malingerers (yudansha not even vaguely included :eek: )

Anders Pettersson

7th October 2004, 13:18

Gassho.

Ok, so I've just sent in my application (hopefully it got to the right person(s).
(My initial plan was to also go the the 30th anniversary in Portugal, but my budget at the moment couldn't allow that, flights are so much cheaper to London.)

So who of the e-budo members will attend the training seminar and taikai?
I will be there, who else?

/Anders

Kari MakiKuutti

7th October 2004, 14:45

Hello!
From Shorinji Kempo Jyväskylä Branch, Finland there will be five kenshi attending. Maybe including some e-Budo lurkers.

David Dunn

7th October 2004, 15:39

Kari - good to hear. Have you let George know your requirements?

Any embu? :)

Ade

7th October 2004, 15:43

Dear All

Gassho

Southampton University + Branch master Sensei Joerg, Berlin Humboldt University branch (attached) will be attending...en masse!

Ade:idea: :toast: :beer: :up: :laugh:

Joerg

7th October 2004, 15:58

Could we leave that "Sensei" please for the time being. Maybe in five years time...
But right, I signed up today and got the reply that its gonna be ok already. It seems that I will be the only one from germany though.

See you there

Ade

7th October 2004, 16:36

No.

You have assumed personal responsibilty for the technical teaching and guidance of all your members on a long term basis.

You are now, and henceforth, to be referred to as Sensei Joerg, Branch Master, Humboldt University Branch, German Federation.

Them's the rules, you're it.

Ade:wave:

Kimpatsu

7th October 2004, 22:51

Originally posted by Ade
No.

You have assumed personal responsibilty for the technical teaching and guidance of all your members on a long term basis.

You are now, and henceforth, to be referred to as Sensei Joerg, Branch Master, Humboldt University Branch, German Federation.

Them's the rules, you're it.

Ade:wave:
Then to be absolutely fair, Ade, he should be referred to as Joerg Sensei, in keeping with the Japanese custom.
Yours pedantically, ;) :D

Tripitaka of AA

8th October 2004, 00:13

Ahem, Rackwitz Sensei, perhaps? :)

David Dunn

8th October 2004, 03:19

Originally posted by Tripitaka of AA
What capacity is there for an audience? Free entry?

Might be a few E-Budoka curious enough to drop in, don't you think...

You'd hope so wouldn't you David? You've declined the personal invitation that I sent you - free entry and all. The only personal invite I sent as it happens. I'll reiterate it in public: David, you are fully invited to the 30th anniversary event in any capacity you like. Free entry to the Sunday event. You could say hello to Mizuno and Jee Sensei, ask them how they're doing and congratulate them on their years of success. Aren't there trains to London from your part of the world? If you are so supportive of the BSKF then get down there and f*cking well support it, instead of your drivel on here.

I cannot contribute to Shorinji Kempo in any tangible way.

How about paying your annual subscription? Supporting some of the events, in some capacity? You could even go training in Durham with James Woodward. He'd be glad of your expert assistance.

"Never give up." That's the main lesson of training, David. You gave up before the Berlin Wall came down. Perhaps you should motivate yourself before you try to motivate any of us. The BSKF members that haven't yet entered the taikai have given more for the BSKF this week than you have since Salman Rushdie published the Satanic Verses. If you understood the first iota of Kongo Zen, you'd be training. I reserve the right to a rhetorical, but you, butt out.

Remind me why you stopped training?

Anders Pettersson

8th October 2004, 07:50

Originally posted by Ade
You are now, and henceforth, to be referred to as Sensei Joerg, Branch Master, Humboldt University Branch, German Federation.

Them's the rules, you're it.
Actually I believe (or rather know if there haven't been any changes in the last two weeks since I visited Berlin) that the Shibu-cho (branch master) of Humboldt-Universitaet Berlin branch still is Wunderle-sensei.

However in this case, even though Jörg isn't formally the Shibu-cho he could still be referred to as sensei, at least in his dojo.

Ok, back to the topic, the BSKF 30th anniversary Taikai.

/Anders

cheunglo

8th October 2004, 08:09

Originally posted by Anders Pettersson
So who of the e-budo members will attend the training seminar and taikai?
I will be there, who else?

Abbey Dojo will, of course, be attending. I, for one, am very much looking forward to meeting those Kenshi with whom my first contact was on this forum.

Tripitaka of AA

8th October 2004, 10:14

Originally posted by David Dunn
If you are so supportive of the BSKF then get down there and f*cking well support it, instead of your drivel on here.
{Snip}
Remind me why you stopped training?

I've made only vague references to the reasons I quit training. It is a personal matter that involves my close family. I shall be sending a PM in due course. For anyone else, may I suggest a look at the first three or four posts that I made on E-Budo, wherein I expressed my admiration and praise for all and any Kenshi that manage to remain active despite the setbacks and diversions that "Real Life" can sometimes provide.

My finances are not healthy at the moment, but I shall be interested to see about the annual membership fee. It is not something I had considered appropriate, but you have made a good point, I should be happy to contribute for all that I have learned from Kongo Zen and the BSKF, to this day. Learning is a forever thing, it seems. Should I address my enquiry on that matter to George, or yourself?

Suffice to say I have been shocked and more than a little upset to find that my earlier comments have elicited the response from Tony Leith and David Dunn. I will have to consider my future involvement carefully. Thank you for your candour. I appreciate frank and direct, as subtle and discreet often go over my head.

It feels like I just got hit with all the fish in Hull. :(

tony leith

8th October 2004, 11:39

David

I'm going to respond to you directly. I'm not apologising for being irritated with your earlier commentary on the deficiencies of currently active members of the BSKF - you're presently in the position of being a friendly spectator. That doesn't mean you don't have the perfect right to put forward opinions, volunteer reminiscences etc etc, but it does mean you should show more respect for those actually still training. I don't mean by that people like me, I mean anybody who shows up regularly for training.

I'm sorry if your feelings have been hurt, but I don't believe you have the right to give any active kenshi a hard time for their lack of commitment. Who knows, perhaps they too have personal circumstances which prevent their attendance at the Taikai. I don't want you to stop posting or to give up this contact with Shorinji Kempo, you make many valuable contributions, but talking about it ain't doing it. Implicitly you were putting yourself on the same moral platform as those who are giving up most of their free time to organising this event, as well as shouldering their work/family responsibilities and running their own clubs. As I said earlier, they have a perfect right to take me to task, as they in every respect are putting more into Shorinji Kempo than I am at the moment. You are not. Why are you surprised to be challenged on this?

Tony Leith

Tripitaka of AA

8th October 2004, 11:59

Tony, you make a great deal of sense. ANd David D, I would probably call most of my contributions "drivel" too :)

I was rather hoping my comments would be seen as friendly spectator, rather than messages from higher up on that moral platform. Clearly my communication skills are not what I'd hoped.

Apologies to any other Kenshi who felt I had abused them from afar.

So anyway, sounds like it's gonna be a great Taikai :)

George Hyde

8th October 2004, 14:33

Hi Cheung,

Originally posted by cheunglo
Abbey Dojo will, of course, be attending. I, for one, am very much looking forward to meeting those Kenshi with whom my first contact was on this forum.

Does that mean we're going to see Abbey's application by the deadline... which is... err... today?

Later,

David Dunn

8th October 2004, 17:08

David,
I too am not going to apologise for the sentiment that a non-kenshi shouldn't berate a kenshi for lack of commitment. I have had comments from my own kenshi that it is 'a bit rum'.

However, I will apologise for the 'drivel' comment, which was uncalled for. I don't think it's true either, or at least it can be applied to many of my posts too.

Steve Williams

8th October 2004, 20:32

Well guys......

In 20 years I've seen them come, and i've seen them go..... there are very few people that started training either before or with me that are still training today........ Apart from the other "older" branch masters (i.e. the "original branch masters") I could count the others on one hand...... probably without fingers.......

The fact that one of the "older kenshi" (in time served, not age ;) ) is still around and still espousing the virtues and advantages of Shorinji Kempo is very heartening to me, the fact that people take him to task over it is very annoying........

There are many reasons why people give up training, and if those reasons are justified then surely the fact that they still "want" to be involved (but are unable for whatever reason) should be enough...... if they have any sort of positive influence then this is surely an added bonus to the situation.

Back to the taikai..... see you all there...... and DavidN, I hope you are able to get that train down....... I am sure that accommidation could be arranged for you for a night or two :D

Tripitaka of AA

9th October 2004, 07:27

Thanks for that Steve.

I've had some PM chats with David Dunn and we're on the same page now :). I explained the story behind my own particular "quitting and buggering off" ;), and he's let me know how my comments were being percieved by the massed ranks of active Dogi-wearing Kenshi.

I haven't made a habit of discussing my circumstances, or why I no longer train, but I hoped that my good intentions would be obvious to all. It seems that some explanation is now required.

I quit when my wife became ill. She needed me to spend more time with her. I now need to be at home (or within 20 mins range) 24 hours a day. We now have 4-year-old twins and this has both helped us, and added to our burden. If you look at my posts you will see that they are made at all or any times of the day. I am not able to make regular training now or in the forseeable future.

I have no intention of going into further detail on this forum (although those who have PMd me will know that I can "unburden" quite easily). Please try to understand. Every Kenshi will experience those difficult decisions on issues that may affect their ability to train... I wish I could still be in training, it was a very happy time for me.

As for people like Tony and David... well they have my utmost respect and admiration. Nobody has it easy. Everybody that manages to maintain an active role in Shorinji Kempo, despite what "Real Life" throws at them, is worthy of praise. Those that manage to combine their lives with the running of a class are to my mind, "on a pedestal" (whether they like it or not). Those two in particular, manage to do all that and STILL find the time to get on here and educate/entertain/explore the aspects of Shorinji Kempo that class-time doesn't always allow for. Apparently, these guys even manage to make time for pregnancy and marriage arrangements. Well, the pregnancy is a third party thing... but you get the picture :)

Me, Lazy? Yes, actually. But that's not why I'm not training. I don't know whether I would still be training if my life had gone a different way, but I'd like to think I would.

The Taikai attendance thing is purely a case of being tied to home. I have a Mum in London who still has a room in her house for me, should I come down for a visit (I haven't, for the last four years). But I've already had offers from kindly Kenshi who offered me their floors.

Good luck to everyone who can make it. I think it's going to be a blast! :D

Now if any Moderator would like to separate out all the ME-ME-ME diversionary posts, put them in a separate thread, then delete it after a few days... that would suit me. But I would imagine that you're all incredibly busy with "proper" work and Taikai preparation, so leave it be if you wish.

Robert Liljeblad

10th October 2004, 14:07

Hi all,

I?fm curious to know the name of the instructors for your taikai!

Hope that you will have a sucsessfull event!

Cordially,

Robert

Steve Williams

10th October 2004, 16:32

The Hombu/WSKO instructors we have attending are:

Aosaka Sensei 8th Dan
Fujita Sensei 8th Dan
Sasaki Sensei 8th Dan
Miyazaki Sensei 7th Dan
Yamamoto Sensei 7th Dan
Inoue Sensei 7th Dan

In addition is our own chief instructor/WSKO instructor:

Mizuno sensei 7th Dan

Also our special "friend" instructors:

Kazuhito Morikawa sensei 7th Dan (Rakuto doin/Rakuto spotsu Shonenden Shibu)
Anders Pettersson sensei 5th Dan (Swedish federation/Karlstad shibu)

That wet your appetite anough :D

Edited because my dear friend Steve gave me one "dan" to much. :)
/Anders

Tripitaka of AA

10th October 2004, 22:34

WOW. Now THAT is a line-up worth savouring. I'm not one to give advice ( ;) ), but I'd say that it might be worth the trip just to say you were there...

and any non-Kenshi E-Budoka may be interested to note that not one of these "stellar" guests has ever called themselves "Soke" or been given a "10th dan" (honorary or otherwise). :D In fact, I don't think they have a Stars 'n' Stripes dogi between them either!

David Dunn

10th October 2004, 22:48

This is the list. I apologise that it isn't yet completer.

Aosaka Hiroshi Sensei
8th Dan. WSKO Board Director. WSKO Official Instructor. Shorinji Kempo European Office General Secretary. Chief Instructor of the French Shorinji Kempo Federation. Paris Branch Master, France. La Clef Branch Master France.

Fujita Sensei
8th Dan. Branchmaster, Atsuta Doin, Japan.

Sasaki Sensei
8th Dan. Branchmaster, Owari Setto Doin, Japan.

Mori Kentaro Sensei
8th Dan. Konan Doin, Japan.

Mizuno Tameo Sensei
7th Dan. WSKO Board Director. WSKO Official Instructor. Chief Instructor of the British Shorinji Kempo Federation. Mayfair Branch Master, UK. Brixton Branch Master, UK.

Maehara Masaki Sensei
7th Dan, Member British Shorinji Kempo Federation Technical Committee. Tolworth Branch Master, UK.

Miyazaki Sensei
7th Dan. Chair Kumamoto Federation. Branchmaster, Kumamoto Arao Shibu, Japan.

Yamamoto Sensei
7th Dan. Branchmaster, Nagoya Shigashi Doin, Japan.

Inoue Sensei
6th Dan. Branchmaster, Tajimi Chuo Doin, Japan.

As Steve mentioned of 5th dan or above there is Kazuhito Morikawa Sensei, Wakabayashi Sensei who looked after us in Kyoto 1997, hombu display team, Anders, Jee Sensei, Peter Moore Sensei, Russell Jenkins Sensei.

I should mention that many of the attendees from Japan are paying their own way here, no trivial amount of money. It is always a good idea to have a few presents in your bags. It doesn't need to be anything expensive, as long as it is something nicely thought about.

[edit] p.s. David is absolutely right. No self-appointed soke, or 30 year old tenth dans here. You don't get 5, 6, 7, 8th dan in Shorinji Kempo very easily.

satsukikorin

11th October 2004, 04:13

Groooaaaannnnn...

Thanks, guys, I feel like the upside-down bloke in shackles in Life of Brian: "You lucky, lucky bastards ..."

A message to all you rank-and-file British kenshi: DO NOT take for granted an opportunity like this. In Seattle we are 3 hours' drive from the nearest other dojo, and we are STILL LUCKY. Consider the Alabama branch?\or better still, the Beirut and Mumbai branches.

I hope you all have a blast. At this rate Britain will be giving Indonesia a run for its money in a few years ...

:)

Robdawson_

11th October 2004, 10:00

Gassho,

I don't suppose anyone has the postcode of the training hall where the Taikai will take place so that I can find it on Multimap or some such site? And any ideas about the availability of parking for someone who is just coming up for the saturday training?

Cheers,

Kesshu,

David Dunn

11th October 2004, 11:34

Rob,
fourth post down in the thread has a link to the venue. You missing the banquet and taikai then?

Kimpatsu

11th October 2004, 13:28

Originally posted by Steve Williams
That wet your appetite anough :D
Why pour cold water on it, Steve?
It does whet my appetite, however... ;)

Robdawson_

11th October 2004, 20:37

Gassho,

I wish I had read the thread more carefully! Thanks, I hadn't noticed the link there. Looks fairly simple to get there, which probably means i'll end up in the wrong place beating my head against the steering wheel in despair, but such are my skills of navigation!

Sadly I can only make the saturday, I really wish I could do the entire weekend, but I have a longstanding previous commitment for the Sunday from which there is no way I can wriggle my way out of. Really looking forward to it though, as it sounds fantastic, and with all the work the organisers are putting into it, it can only be a great success.

Will be seeing some of you there soon!

Kesshu,

Robert Liljeblad

12th October 2004, 02:52

Originally posted by Steve Williams
That wet your appetite anough :D

Hi,

It does, it is a very impressive line-up….

Cordially,

Kimpatsu

12th October 2004, 03:36

I think it's going to be awesome. I wish all the participants a really great taikai. Oh, and happy 30th birthday to the BSKF.

Indar

12th October 2004, 08:11

I'm interested to see that Inoue Sensei will be visiting the UK. I remember him very clearly from my first visit to Hombu in 1993.
The list of instructors make me wish I could make the trip back, but it's just too far from Nigeria. Anyway, best wishes to all my friends in WSKO, and hope I can get to see you in Japan next year.
For those that know me, I'm having a good time in Nigeria and hope you all enjoy the Taikai.

David Dunn

13th October 2004, 10:48

Please note, that up above I should have said "Anders Petterson Sensei." Last time I did that he told me off :)

A serious point which I've been asked to make. To count as attendance at an official International Study Session - which this is - you must attend the whole event. If you only come to one day of training, or training only, or taikai only, it cannot be officially credited to you as attendance at an ISS. This is WSKO rules, not ours.

David Dunn

13th October 2004, 11:08

A further addition: John McCulloch Sensei of Toronto Branch, alumni of BSKF of course.

tony leith

13th October 2004, 12:39

Actually we can claim Sensei John McCulloch as one of our (Glasgow's) most distinguished alumni, although I wouldn't attempt to deny he also trained in London.

Tony Leith

PS I personally don't understand why anybody not physically prevented from attending both days of an event like this wouldn't go to both. Our guests after all are making the commitment to come all this way to be present at both days - it's like inviting somebody to a party and then buggering off halfway through yourself. At the risk of seeming sanctimonious, myself and my partner are effectively cutting short our honeymoon to be at the event (we're going to Rome for a few days, then flying back into London for the weekend)

David Dunn

13th October 2004, 13:41

Tony, I thought Glasgow was in the BSKF :)

tony leith

13th October 2004, 15:07

Whoops. Lest I be thought to be making a bid for UDI/seccession, I should emphasise that Glasgow is fully in the BSKF. I was frankly letting just a bit of partisan pride get the better of me - for a relatively isolated club I think we've contributed our share of people who go on to take on leadership responsibilities.

Logically there's no necessary contradiction in saying he's an alumni of both the BSKF and Glasgow University dojo, though to be sure the BSKF connection is the more relevant one considering whose anniversary it is.

Tony Leith

sean dixie

13th October 2004, 20:40

PS I personally don't understand why anybody not physically prevented from attending both days of an event like this wouldn't go to both. Our guests after all are making the commitment to come all this way to be present at both days - it's like inviting somebody to a party and then buggering off halfway through yourself. At the risk of seeming sanctimonious, myself and my partner are effectively cutting short our honeymoon to be at the event (we're going to Rome for a few days, then flying back into London for the weekend)

ALAS WORK! :(
The weekend of the Taikai is literaly the busiest of the year. You have no idea of the kind of heat I'm taking in order to attend the Sunday. I was down to compare SIX shows on that day alone!

PS. The boss still don't know! :eek:

Ade

13th October 2004, 22:01

Originally posted by tony leith
I personally don't understand why anybody not physically revented from attending both days of an event like this wouldn't go to both. Our guests after all are making the commitment to come all this way to be present at both days - it's like inviting somebody to a party and then buggering off halfway through yourself. At the risk of seeming sanctimonious, myself and my partner are effectively cutting short our honeymoon to be at the event (we're going to Rome for a few days, then flying back into London for the weekend)

Dear All

Gassho

Perhaps because they are exercising that most precious of all human rights: freedom of choice.
Or would you prefer that we put those who refuse to see things "our way" into a camp where such non-conformists can be concentrated and a final solution to such ideas can be implemented and followed to it's natural conclusion.

Ade

Ps Lighten up; it’s only a weekend seminar not the arrival of a comet carrying the messiah.

Kimpatsu

13th October 2004, 22:30

Originally posted by Ade
Ps Lighten up; it’s only a weekend seminar not the arrival of a comet carrying the messiah.
Mizuno Sensei is the Messiah...

David Dunn

13th October 2004, 22:46

Originally posted by Ade
it’s only a weekend seminar

That's one way of looking at it. Another is that it is a celebration of the culmination of 30 years of dedication by Mizuno Sensei. Let's not forget that Sensei(s) Jee, Terry, Russell and Pete have done 30 years too, and Sensei Paul White nearly that.

Ade

13th October 2004, 23:30

Originally posted by David Dunn
That's one way of looking at it. Another is that it is a celebration of the culmination of 30 years of dedication by Mizuno Sensei. Let's not forget that Sensei(s) Jee, Terry, Russell and Pete have done 30 years too, and Sensei Paul White nearly that.

Lets not forget that everyone's also allowed freedom of choice David, and after 22 years of doing this, with a kenshi number of 430-424622, I can categorically state that this only another weekend training seminar, away from my wife and 3 daughters, one of whom is only 14 weeks old, no matter who's there.

Keep it in perspective, less of the follow the leader whatever the cost.

Lighten up.

Ade

Tripitaka of AA

14th October 2004, 12:42

Originally posted by Ade
I can categorically state that this only another weekend training seminar,

Taking my life in my hands, I will dare to say (I'm wearing my asbestos pyamas) that although a partner/spouse/loved one might see this as yet another weekend seminar, it should be apparent to the Kenshi that this is most certainly not the case.

A Christening of your child is not the same as just another Sunday Service (as far as I know..). A birthday that celebrates the significant rites of passage (18, 21, 30, 40, etc), is to most people, not just another birthday. For a Christian (or a child waiting for presents), December 25th is not just another day...

The significance of this event has been stressed on this thread by Kenshi who appreciate the implications of a good or bad turnout. It is obvious that not everyone will be fortunate enough to be free. It goes without saying that those who do not wish to attend heve every right to decline. I would imagine that the common assumption will be that anyone not attending is going to be feeling pretty rotten about it. There are thousands of reasons why people may not be able to attend, and their privacy is their right.

I think the cajoling and pushy posts (Guilty, your honour), were meant as good-natured reminders for people who might not be in the habit of keeping their calendar free... those Kenshi for whom the very word Taikai is still new and exciting. That anyone who has already made the giant leap to Branchmaster (outstanding commitment and personal sacrifice every week) should take offence at the nature of these posts was a great surprise to me. I'd have thought that anyone who has been around for more than one or two Taikai would have worked out how to include, or not include them in their regular lives. Sensitivity to criticism would imply that they haven't reached an inner calm on the subject for themselves (whether it was non-Kenshi me talking, or anyone else).

But Ade saying that this is just another seminar... well, I would respectfully have to respectfully disagree, respectfully. Describing it as such is not accurate or helpful. It could be seen as insulting.

A comparison for illustration;
Joe is coming up to his fiftieth birthday. One of his kids arranges a party and invites Joe's friends and workmates. They take time out of their own lives to attend and celebrate with him. When they get there, Joe is on his own while his family are off doing other things. The impression it gives to others, is that Joe has raised kids who don't care...

I wrote this earlier this morning. I hesitated to post it for fear of taking this thread once more unto a breach ;). Since then it has had quite a number of views and no-one has thought it necessary (or wise) to post. I shall raise my head above the parapet once more and prepare to take it on my (pixel-only) chin.

Ade

14th October 2004, 19:35

Originally posted by Tripitaka of AA
... although a partner/spouse/loved one might see his as yet another weekend seminar, it should be apparent to the Kenshi that this is most certainly not the case ... Ade saying that this is just another seminar... well, I would respectfully have to respectfully disagree, respectfully. Describing it as such is not accurate or helpful. It could be seen as insulting...

So are you coming then? if not it might be seen as insulting that someone with no intention of doing so should feel able to foist his opinion on others who are.

Put up or shut up.

sean dixie

14th October 2004, 19:46

Excellently well posted David N, especially so in the light of some receint posts on this thread. I often fear posting as I seem to be the most in-eliquent of all members here, so I'm glad you seemed to read my mind.

Just to remind everyone including lurkers, there is a huge amount of behind the scenes work being done by a few BSKF members in their SPARE time, no pay, just the thanks of those of us less able to commit. Many thanks to all of them. The work is being done to thank Mizuno Sensei, all his original students who Dave mentioned earlier and ALL BSKA/BSKF members past and present who have contributed to this great martial art that we study. We have had some posts from kenshi Stateside that should help us to realise what a truely wonderful event this will be, the level of instruction will be fantastic.

tony leith

15th October 2004, 10:18

I originally posted: -

PS I personally don't understand why anybody not physically prevented from attending both days of an event like this wouldn't go to both. Our guests after all are making the commitment to come all this way to be present at both days - it's like inviting somebody to a party and then buggering off halfway through yourself. At the risk of seeming sanctimonious, myself and my partner are effectively cutting short our honeymoon to be at the event (we're going to Rome for a few days, then flying back into London for the weekend)

Adrian riposted

Perhaps because they are exercising that most precious of all human rights: freedom of choice.

Fair enough and fair comment.

Or would you prefer that we put those who refuse to see things "our way" into a camp where such non-conformists can be concentrated and a final solution to such ideas can be implemented and followed to it's natural conclusion.

Ahem. A tad hyperbolic perhaps. Having merely expressed an opinion and said that I personally don't understand why you wouldn't respect the hard work of everyone involved and the commitment of our guests by attending both days is NOT the same thing as suggesting people should be physically forced to attend. I would be deeply insulted by equating this with Nazi death camps if I took that aspect of Adrian's remarks at all seriously.

I do wonder idly if Sensei Adrian organised a two day training seminar for his own kenshi and a sizeable number of them didn't show up for the second day whether he'd react with the same untroubled equanimity that he seems to be suggesting the organisers of the BSKF event show. Somehow I doubt it. Would he be going round with the alsations and whistles - 'Raus, raus! schnell schnell!'? (Two can play at the prison camp analogy game) Somehow that's easier to picture.

As to it only being just 'another weekend seminar', given the number of senior instructors coming here all the way from Japan at their own expense, I think this comment is fairly silly. It's a rare opportunity for BSKF kenshi to benefit from this level and variety of instruction. Ichigo ichije and all that.

Tony Leith

Ade

15th October 2004, 11:31

Various points, no particular order.

There are those of you who are coming across as particularly sanctimonious and unnecessarily fanatic, it does the BSKF no favours.

There is one of you, particularly vociferous, who has no right to berate others over their lack of commitment.

This anniversary will be a fantastic event, and I am particularly looking forward to it, (and appreciate everyone's hard work and effort in creating it.)

But I also realise that it is particularly expensive, being held in London, which is notoriously costly, and falls at exactly the wrong time of year for the University clubs who have just returned form summer break and are busy recruiting.

Having recently been visited by Sensei I too am exhorting all my students to attend if humanly possible, (to which George can attest having been cc'd one of my club list e-mails.)

People have a right to freedom of choice, they do not appreciate this format being used as a scold for those who are unable to attend for genuine reasons, (facile comments about messiah-ship are irritating in the extreme and are as welcome as pouring lemon juice into a paper cut.)

To put it simply, it doesn't help.

To those of you who have an issue with me please don't hesitate to approach me at the taikai where we can resolve it face to face.

Ade

tony leith

15th October 2004, 12:49

From Ade

To those of you who have an issue with me please don't hesitate to approach me at the taikai where we can resolve it face to face.

Oh dear. Why do I get the impression I've just had a glove slapped across my face and thrown at my feet? I'm not looking to pick a fight, but you can't go accusing fellow kenshi of behaving like concentration camp guards and mad cultists and then complain when you get a bit of mild sarcasm coming back at you.

I do however understand the particular problems the timing causes for uni clubs - we have exactly the same problem.

Anyway, I don't think getting any deeper into this is going anywhere useful, so I'm going to refrain for from further comment.

Tony Leith

David Dunn

15th October 2004, 13:27

Who made facile comments about the messiah? Oh yes, Kimpatsu :)

Few points no particular order.
Timing for university branches, agreed. I think there would be many more attendees if it were a month later.

Price.
Have to disagree. How much would a weekend seminar with one eighth dan Aikido instructor cost? 200 quid just for training? What about 12 seventh and eighth dans? (It's gone up again for the astute reader). The answer is that it just wouldn't happen. We have a unique organisation where that many nana and hachidans could attend the same event(*) The cost is the same as summer camp - that's was the aim.

This has grown out of proportion - I meant the thread to make embu competitors aware of how quickly the taikai was coming up. I didn't really expect anyone to even reply to it.

(*) except those that have lots of 30 year old tenth dans of course.

Tripitaka of AA

15th October 2004, 13:38

[empty vessel mode]
I'm sure this will be a marvellous Taikai and I envy those who are lucky enough to go (yes, I think luck plays a part - like Sean's predicament). There will be many Kenshi who are frustrated by outside commitments or considerations (yes, I'm sure cost is indeed highly significant and I wouldn't know how to get around that one). Finding time to attend a One Day event is usually not a problem, I guess... but "Two Days" takes it to quite another level. I guess that is one reason why the organisers are so keen to make the whole event a resounding success... to reward people for attending, as much as anything else.

It's one of those "put more in, get more out" type of arrangements. In the end though, each individual has to work out whether they can or can't. This thread was about raising awareness of some of the issues involved. Allowing Kenshi the chance to see how their own participation forms part of a bigger picture. I've apologised for my earlier "berating" :(, and I hope to return to a happier relationship with the forum as soon as possible :).

Ade, you are a practical person, not given to vagueness or hints. I like that :). I hope that one day my circumstances will allow me to make your acquaintance (it is complicated, but as a family man you may be closer to understanding than your single students). In the meantime, please accept my annoying verbosity as that of an over-enthusiastic supporter at a sporting event - loud and opinionated, but never going to get to play*. I can't go. I can't train. I won't be able to for the foreseeable future. It makes me sad, but that's how it is for me. I think I've said this before...

* I guess that makes me an Armchair Fanatic!!

Tripitaka of AA

15th October 2004, 13:45

Originally posted by David Dunn
This has grown out of proportion ... I didn't really expect anyone to even reply to it.

Never underestimate the potential of an empty vessel for making noise and irritation ;), :) :D :laugh:..... :cry:

Kimpatsu

15th October 2004, 13:53

Originally posted by David Dunn
Who made facile comments about the messiah? Oh yes, Kimpatsu :)
It's not facile. Mizuno Sensei is a true bodhissatva, do you not think so? And, as any fule no, "bodhissatva" is Sanskrit for Messiah. So, I wasn't trying to be funny; I was trying to make a point. Sorry if it was lost in the general white noise into which this thread has degenerated.

Originally posted by David Dunn
Price.
Have to disagree. How much would a weekend seminar with one eighth dan Aikido instructor cost? 200 quid just for training? What about 12 seventh and eighth dans? (It's gone up again for the astute reader). The answer is that it just wouldn't happen. We have a unique organisation where that many nana and hachidans could attend the same event(*) The cost is the same as summer camp - that's was the aim. [/SIZE]
Just out of curiosity, exactly how much is it costing?

David Dunn

15th October 2004, 14:10

Tony, seventy quid. Add forty for the banquet.

I know the point you were making Tony :)

Charles Hammond

16th October 2004, 00:14

Originally posted by Kimpatsu
as any fule no, "bodhissatva" is Sanskrit for Messiah.

Is it? I thought it meant "being of perfect knowledge" (bodhi "perfect knowledge" + sattva "being, essence"). I've never seen it translated as messiah, or used in that context. Still, I'm not a Sanskrit scholar.

Kimpatsu

16th October 2004, 01:23

Originally posted by Charles Hammond
Is it? I thought it meant "being of perfect knowledge" (bodhi "perfect knowledge" + sattva "being, essence"). I've never seen it translated as messiah, or used in that context. Still, I'm not a Sanskrit scholar.
The main point to remember, Charles, is that a bodhissatva, having achieved enlightenment, takes on the duty of teaching the path to enlightenment to others. As such, I think you'll agree that Mizuno Sensei qualifies. And I would define anone who goes around spreading a message of enlightenment as a messiah. Ergo, my translation of bodhissatva as "messiah". One can't be too literal in the translation of terms, or you'd be arguing that sensei doesn't mean "teacher", but "born before", or that "little lunch" and not "breakfast" for petit dejeuner. Translation is all about context. (I.e., "transliteration is mistranslation", an aphorism I coined myself.)
Apologies if the above paragraph sounds snippy, but I've just got up, haven't had a coffee yet, and thus am not firing on all cylinders. (If I ever do... ;) )
Kesshu.

Kimpatsu

16th October 2004, 01:27

Originally posted by David Dunn
Tony, seventy quid. Add forty for the banquet.
So, 110 GBP all in? What about accomodation for those from outside London?

Originally posted by David Dunn
I know the point you were making Tony :)
Thank you, David. :cool:

Ade

16th October 2004, 10:58

Originally posted by David Dunn
...No self-appointed soke…here...

Oh no, we have Captain Hyperbole to help out with that

Originally posted by Kimpatsu
...a bodhissatva, having achieved enlightenment, takes on the duty of teaching the path to enlightenment to others. As such, I think you'll agree that Mizuno Sensei qualifies.... as a messiah... I wasn't trying to be funny; I was trying to make a point. Sorry if it was lost in the general white noise into which this thread has degenerated.

I am interested that Tony can now claim to know Sensei Mizuno’s state of enlightenment, I will mention to Sensei when I see him, I am sure that Sensei will not mind Tony touting him as a messiah and recognise Tony as one of the true acolytes, or maybe not.

Kimpatsu

16th October 2004, 12:34

Originally posted by Ade
I am interested that Tony can now claim to know Sensei Mizuno’s state of enlightenment, I will mention to Sensei when I see him, I am sure that Sensei will not mind Tony touting him as a messiah and recognise Tony as one of the true acolytes, or maybe not.
Well, once you learn to speak Japanese, you will actually be in a position to do so. Quite frankly, I'm sick of taking the heat for your screwups, Ade. I've taken far too many punches far too many times for a monolingual who doesn't understand the culture to be lecturing me on what I can and cannot know. I just wish there were some way to make you take the beatings instead, but that will never happen, because you're too f***ing lazy to learn Japanese. So I guess I'll have to go on being your whipping boy. Which I don't mind (well, yes, I do, but it can't be helped, given that this is Japanese culture), but I would have expected you to be a little more appreciateive.
Ingrate. :mad:

Ade

16th October 2004, 12:45

Tony

Read your pm.

Kimpatsu

16th October 2004, 13:46

Originally posted by Ade
Tony

Read your pm.
Will do.

Tripitaka of AA

17th October 2004, 11:27

{mischievous mode}
Oh to be a fly on the wall!...
{/mischievous mode}

Shorinji Kempo. An art that is studied by passionate, forthright people. Strong characters, strong wills. Great friends.

David Dunn

17th October 2004, 20:57

Originally posted by Kimpatsu
So, 110 GBP all in? What about accomodation for those from outside London?

Well, cut rate twin rooms were negotiated, and for those that prefer to save money and don't mind a sofa or floor, homestays have been offered.

Charles Hammond

17th October 2004, 21:31

Originally posted by Kimpatsu
The main point to remember, Charles, is that a bodhissatva, having achieved enlightenment, takes on the duty of teaching the path to enlightenment to others. As such, I think you'll agree that Mizuno Sensei qualifies. And I would define anone who goes around spreading a message of enlightenment as a messiah. Ergo, my translation of bodhissatva as "messiah". One can't be too literal in the translation of terms, or you'd be arguing that sensei doesn't mean "teacher", but "born before", or that "little lunch" and not "breakfast" for petit dejeuner. Translation is all about context. (I.e., "transliteration is mistranslation", an aphorism I coined myself.)
Apologies if the above paragraph sounds snippy, but I've just got up, haven't had a coffee yet, and thus am not firing on all cylinders. (If I ever do... ;) )
Kesshu.

Tony, I think you’re misunderstanding what a bodhisattva is. Bodhisattvas are not beings who take on a duty of teaching when they attain enlightenment. They are individuals who, out of compassion for all living things, foreswear nirvana in order to remain within the realm of samsara and help (rather than lead) others. Since many Buddhists choose to vow to become bodhisattvas rather than enter nirvana until all sentient beings have done so (“not until all the hells are empty” is one way I’ve heard of putting it) it seems to me that the choice of the term messiah as a translation is not appropriate. Leaving aside the strong Judeo-Christian link to the word it is difficult to conceive of anyone taking a vow to become one; it’s not something that seems to be contained by the word.

As I’m sure you know bodhisattva isn’t usually translated but when it is the term “saint” is seems to be the most commonly used. It’s not entirely appropriate because there are references to Buddhist saints, who have miraculous powers but are not necessarily bodhisattva at the time (Milarepa, from Tibetan Buddhism is perhaps the best known), but it does seem a bit more appropriate in feel than messiah.