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shugyosha
9th October 2004, 00:59
once ago, i though about the idea of a world without religion and dogma, where peaple would just rely on themselves.

however, i thought, without religion in india, no bodhi dharma, without bodhi dharma, no Chan budhism, no shaolin quan, wihtout chan budhism,
no shorinji kempo!
:eek:

then here is the paradox, most of the founder of the religions just wanted to free peaples mind, to make them rely on themself, but to do that, they had to teach them, and to teach create a dogma, after few generation when the founder is dead, a religion is created, and peaple rely only on the dogma no more on themselve

here lies the paradox, when freeing peaples mind, they also enslave them in the specific method of freedom,

what do you think?

David Dunn
9th October 2004, 01:04
Jimi,
I agree. What does 'freedom' mean anyway?

:D

johan_frendin
9th October 2004, 07:46
Gassho!

If you are interested in the the paradox controlled mind and free mind I suggest you read something from Jiddu Krishnamurti - http://www.katinkahesselink.net/kr/

The american author Ken Wilber has a great essay about religious translation or transformation that could bee found here - http://www.wie.org/j12/wilber.asp

I personally think it is great reading!

Best regards

Johan Frendin

tony leith
9th October 2004, 19:37
I do think the rest of humanity has a problem integrating the insights of 'great souls' into the general culture. To my mind, these problems are at their most acute when combined with a metaphysical worldview. People who put forward a case on the basis of reason and evidence - or even intuitive insight - are in a different category from those who claim some external revelation (god or gods told me). To be fair, I don't think in some instances the revelation has even been claimed, or at least not in the sense imputed to them by later followers (Jesus of Nazareth being a prime victim of this tendency in my view - enter Kimpatsu claiming he never existed). The sources closest to the historical Jesus, especially the hypothesised 'Q' from which the synoptic Gospels were probably drawn, suggest a suspiciously human Jesus, a Jesus presenting himself as a prophet and teacher but who would have been appalled at being called divine.

Religion and religiosity do seem to serve a genuine need which is pretty well universal. I think this aspect of the human experience to some extent should be seen as slightly distinct from the concretised institutional expression of it. Humans tend to create and service power structures which over time have a logic and self serving imperatives of their own. This is probably inevitable. Any any enterprise where more the two people are involved, you'll have politics (and I'm afraid I'm not such a millenarian that I would suggest Shorinji Kempo is immune to this).

What does matter is trying to keep holding on to the original insights. I think Kaiso was trying to create an alternative means of 'religious' (insert own word of choice) expression for those of us who don't find metaphysics interesting or satisfying, but do want to at least try to invest our lives with some moral/spiritual meaning. He was trying to get rid of what he saw as the dogmatic/mystical excrences which had grown up over the millenia around the core insights of Buddhist belief and practice (and I mean belief not faith - the difference matters). He evidently despised mere formalistic piety and dogma. In the end, if Shorinji Kempo isn't a philosophy of action, it ain't anything. This might not mean that any one of us might change the world as a whole, but we should do what we can to make the world a better place for being in it.

PS to Tripitaka - I still think you have chosen your words more carefully, but caring for somebody you love is an expression of if not specifically Kongo Zen philosophy then of being a decent human being (and in my view Kongo Zen and SK are means to that end, not just ends in themselves)

Tony Leith

FriskyBun
14th October 2004, 17:22
Religion is not about freeing people's mind. It's about guiding people to live in the best way possible. There's many ways to live; good, bad, healthy, irresponsible, etc. THAT is the basis of all religions.
What is considered "best" is a matter of opinion and belief. Which is why I believe that God gave us a mind so that we can use it to discern.