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gscheel
11th October 2004, 20:34
Hello,

I have just finished reading "The Lone Samurai" by William Scott Wilson. In it there is a quote from Musashi that I am curious about:

"See to it that you temper yourself with one thousand days of practice, and refine yourself with ten thousand days of training"

What would be the distinction between "practice" and "training"?

Thanks,
Gary Scheel

fifthchamber
12th October 2004, 04:05
Hello Gary...
I would hazard a guess that the difference between the terms has to do with the Japanese use of Renshu and keiko..Without seeing the kanji translated from its more difficult but the idea behind them is that "practise" is learning the forms and "training" is going over and over those forms learnt..From what I have read before about Musashi`s way of thinking that would seem to make some sense...The translation is a problem as it might have come across better with the terms reversed...But I would hazard a guess that that was what was meant.
or not....
Yours.

MarkF
12th October 2004, 06:59
It reads to me as randori to keiko, or keiko to shugyo.

The old saying concerning training and learning over twenty years or more, or learning a years worth badly, and repeating it 19 times comes to mind.

Then again, I do not read kanji and have a hard time with romaji, so take it as a thought, nothing more.


Mark

rupert
21st October 2004, 07:50
It sounds to me like - learn the techniques for 1000 days, then spend the next 10,000 days perfecting them.

Chris Li
22nd October 2004, 04:09
Originally posted by fifthchamber
Hello Gary...
I would hazard a guess that the difference between the terms has to do with the Japanese use of Renshu and keiko..Without seeing the kanji translated from its more difficult but the idea behind them is that "practise" is learning the forms and "training" is going over and over those forms learnt..From what I have read before about Musashi`s way of thinking that would seem to make some sense...The translation is a problem as it might have come across better with the terms reversed...But I would hazard a guess that that was what was meant.
or not....
Yours.

Actually, Musashi uses the same word ("keiko") in both places. The quote is sort of a play on the parts of the word "tanren" ("training" or "forging"):

"One thousand days of practice ("keiko") is called "tan", ten thousand days of practice ("keiko") is called ren."

Put them together and you have (I suppose) 33 years of hard training ("tanren").

Best,

Chris