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Jason Chambers
5th November 2004, 19:15
To the members of the Ninpo Community,

I feel that it is necessary that I address something. After speaking with a friend of mine today, I have come to see that what I have been doing (switching Kans, being a Neo, founding styles, etc.) may have sealed my doom as far as ever being TRULY a part of any Takamatsuden affiliate.

Something we discussed really hit home, not only referencing Ninpo, but in all aspects of my life. What I am speaking of is LOYALTY. I must confess, I have had none to anyone. Having realized this, I have decided to devote my loyalty to one particular Kan and THAT Kan only. If I am to leave will never seek out membership in of the three again. I am not making this promise to you, the Public but to me. I know what I want to do. This is my final attempt.

For years I have either associated myself with the Genbukan (membership expired in 2002) or as an Independent. Many of you out there have labeled me a fraud or “Soke- wannabe”. The fact is: I never once claimed to be a grandmaster at anything, nor would I ever. However, these assumptions, as a result of my actions, may have hurt m more than I have realized. Who wants to put their faith in a person who doesn’t stick with anything they start? Not many.

Well, I have made a choice. I want to be a part of the Bujinkan. I know my association with the Genbukan may hurt me here, but I will do what it takes to prove me sincere. I would like to thank everyone in the Genbukan who has helped me over the years. I am grateful. It’s not a matter of one is better than the other. It is a matter of what I feel I have to do.

It is my hope that there is a Bujinkan dojo out there that will give me a chance and allow me to enter in to training with them.

Thank you,

Kamiyama
5th November 2004, 20:54
Hey Jason...
W O W ....

What's the deal?

Why Bujinkan?

What draws you to that ordeal?

ralph severe, kamiyama

Jason Chambers
5th November 2004, 21:50
Friends, Ralph... friends.

Kamiyama
5th November 2004, 22:53
I see..
Well good luck.

From my experience with the Bujinkan and members…
Poor ranking requirements, poor skills, very poor fighting spirit, no traditional feel, lack of knowledge of the ryuha within the organization, back stabbing, lies, twisted rumors and a total lack of any respect towards their sempai.

The soke is a wonderful human being.. and the goodness of the Bujinkan organization almost stops there..
If it wasn't for the many good students who follow him blindly there most likely wouldn't be a Bujinkan.. for us to chat about.

One of the funniest things about the Bujinkan is the shidoshikai...
It stands alone as one of the all time martial art 'boys club'... that doesn't have any business within soke Bujinkan.

My question is.. is it worth being a part of 'all that'?

Of course you might find your experience with them different from what I have experienced for the past 13 years...

Again.. good luck..

If I were you I would find some organization like the Toshindo to get with.. they have honor and are not full of themselves.. or even the Genbukan..

ralph severe, kamiyama

tsurashi shondo
5th November 2004, 23:00
Jason, it was only a few months ago you were calling me a "Bujinkan bastard child" and trying to run me off a Genbukan thread. What gives?
Well I hope your new training opportunities are what you need and what you are looking for.
I myself have left the Bujinkan after less than a year, because I found the constant politics in this neck of the woods a constant impedement to training with who I bloody well please.
Good luck to you.

Jason Chambers
5th November 2004, 23:32
Sean:

Are you sure you have the right person? I don't recall what you are refering to.

rurouni
6th November 2004, 04:52
Okay, I'm kinda new to actually being part of an organization (To-Shin Do). I had a little bit of Bujinkan experience and I've read a lot of Ninpo philosophy and I've tried to keep up on the Ninpo politics over the past few weeks and I kinda understand what's going on. However, I have a few questions:

1) What's a "Neo"?

2) What is "Shidoshikai"? I know what a Shidoshi is but I don't understand the "Boys Club" comment.

3) What kind of back stabbing, lies, and twisted rumors should I be aware of when participating in Ninpo forums?

The only reason I ask is so that I can keep up with current events. THe previous few times I've heard anyone speak of any negativity within the Bujinkan I see a reply about how the person with negative comments "made a poor assassination attmept" against the Bujinkan and then a denial of all negative qualities.

Thanks for your time.

tsurashi shondo
6th November 2004, 04:54
No biggie,
I just thought you were passionately a G-kan man.....here:
http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26425&highlight=longest+kyu

Cheers.

:)

Kamiyama
6th November 2004, 05:50
1) What's a "Neo"?
****ky, I’m not sure.****

2) What is "Shidoshikai"? I know what a Shidoshi is but I don't understand the "Boys Club" comment.
****ky, Very simple, a unrealistic group that claims to be the upper level teacher group under Hatsumi sensei in the Bujinkan that has done NOTHING for any Bujinkan member that I know since 1985. The Bujinkan makes claims that if you do not have a membership to the shidoshikai you cannot teach the Ryuha of the Bujinkan Dojo. But it has never got in the way of 100’s from doing so. Yes, by the way it is in the guide rules of the Bujinkan.. but I have never seen it enforced.. and how can it be enforced..?
The group is mainly made up of non-fighters who cling together for some reason or another so they can pick on or join together to ‘bring down’ their mighty hand of power if need be. Other than that.. the shidoshikai means little or nothing in my opinion.****

3) What kind of back stabbing, lies, and twisted rumors should I be aware of when participating in Ninpo forums?
****ky, refer back to the shidoshikai members first and take it from their. Everything else will take it’s place in the scheme of things.****

Warning, The Bujinkan is NOT a family and in my opinion doesn't care about each other or the art that Hatsumi sensei teaches.. all I have seen is mainly ego and fear causing BS with the members.

I do not deal with the Bujinkan because of the BS and ill feelings each other seems to have with one another within the Bujinkan...
I have been involved with it for the past 24 years..
It gets you nowhere..
It means nothing..

Get a heavy bag and hit it.. you will most likely get more out of it than you will the BS..

Please remember these are just my opinions.. everyone has opinions..

ralph severe, kamiyama

rurouni
6th November 2004, 06:14
Originally posted by Kamiyama
1) What's a "Neo"?
****ky, I’m not sure.****


Does anyone else reading this know?



2) What is "Shidoshikai"? I know what a Shidoshi is but I don't understand the "Boys Club" comment.
****ky, Very simple, a unrealistic group that claims to be the upper level teacher group under Hatsumi sensei in the Bujinkan that has done NOTHING for any Bujinkan member that I know since 1985. The Bujinkan makes claims that if you do not have a membership to the shidoshikai you cannot teach the Ryuha of the Bujinkan Dojo. But it has never got in the way of 100’s from doing so. Yes, by the way it is in the guide rules of the Bujinkan.. but I have never seen it enforced.. and how can it be enforced..?
The group is mainly made up of non-fighters who cling together for some reason or another so they can pick on or join together to ‘bring down’ their mighty hand of power if need be. Other than that.. the shidoshikai means little or nothing in my opinion.****


Thanks for the info. I had no clue there were so many factions, divisions, and political groups within Ninpo. I mainly thought the division was purely organizational (ABD, X-Kans, BBD, To-Shin Do).



3) What kind of back stabbing, lies, and twisted rumors should I be aware of when participating in Ninpo forums?
****ky, refer back to the shidoshikai members first and take it from their. Everything else will take it’s place in the scheme of things.****


It seems as if the Shidoshikai is the root of all the problems within the Bujinkan with the way those with negative opinions of the organization speak of it.



Warning, The Bujinkan is NOT a family and in my opinion doesn't care about each other or the art that Hatsumi sensei teaches.. all I have seen is mainly ego and fear causing BS with the members.


Does Hatsumi Sensei not notice this if it is such a large-scale problem?



I do not deal with the Bujinkan because of the BS and ill feelings each other seems to have with one another within the Bujinkan...
I have been involved with it for the past 24 years..
It gets you nowhere..
It means nothing..


I trust your opinion based on your amount of experience and will continue to do so until I find evidence showing otherwise. I mean no ill word to any good people within the Bujinkan, but I can't truthfully say that this information doesn't affect my opinion of the organizartion as a whole.



Get a heavy bag and hit it.. you will most likely get more out of it than you will the BS..


Been there, done that. Now my current aim within the next 9 or 10 months is to get my Kihon Diplomas in Taijutsu and Kenjutsu through To-Shin Do being that I've always had a thing for classical martial arts. I'm also interested in seeing An-shu Hayes' contemporary interpretation of the classical arts when studying for the Shoden Diploma.



Please remember these are just my opinions.. everyone has opinions..

ralph severe, kamiyama

I understand this. I take this information in based on your experience to reflect the organization as a whole but I still will give each individual, no matter which organization they belong to, the same opportunity to be my friend as everyone else.

Gary Arthur
6th November 2004, 09:28
To add to waht Kamiyama said, one must not forget the uneducated attempts by members of the Bujinkan to Dis other organisations even though in most instances they themselves have never trained with them or seen them train.

I have been both a member of the Bujinkan and Genbukan and it really got to me that I was being told that I could not train with other groups. My attitude is that I am interested in Ninjutsu and realise that other people have a diffent slant on how to teach the art. I therefore, if the opportunity presented itself, train with Dr Hatsumi, Shoto Tanemura, or Fumio Manaka. I would also train in Judo, Aikido etc if I felt it was of benefit to me. And if I decided not to at least I know I have the freedom to do so if I so choose.

I feel that some organisations are creating cults where if you stray you are cut off. Surely we are all free human beings and should be allowed to train with who we want. Yes I understand the attitude of respect towards a teacher, and if you have a good teacher he will actively encourage you to train with others.

ChrisMoon
6th November 2004, 09:49
Originally posted by tsurashi shondo
No biggie,
I just thought you were passionately a G-kan man.....here:
http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26425&highlight=longest+kyu

Cheers.

:)

Sean when I read the first post today my first thought was this thread. I am surprised he did not remember it, I distinctly did.

Ghost Cat
6th November 2004, 13:02
Joshua (and others)

To understand what is going on, you should perhaps know the background to understand why Ralph says what he does. In regards to the shidoshikai, please take the time to look at this page and the next (http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23009&perpage=15&pagenumber=5) at least, paying attention to the photos he posts and then take a look at this thread (http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15384) to kind of put Ralph's words in context. Both for what he says about the shidoshikai and what he will probably say about me and others in the near future. :rolleyes:

rurouni
6th November 2004, 20:41
Ah-ha! I understand what is going on now.

Thanks.

Kamiyama
6th November 2004, 21:50
Does Hatsumi Sensei not notice this if it is such a large-scale problem?
****ky, I feel he knows but really the Bujinkan is so big and out of control that there is not much if anything he can do.
Why should he?
He gets his share of $$ regardless.
Not to long into the future the Bujinkan will come apart and many if not most of all the Bujinkan members will go their way.*****

Good try Donny.. but you live in a fantasy land and it's a bubble..
You have no idea what I'm talking about...
Your knowledge is lacking in the information dept when it comes to what's really going on outside your bubble..

I was given permission to teach Bujinkan methods in 1885.. and did so till 1992.. and then again started up another Dojo in 1996 till 2004...
In 1991 at the Texas taikai when you were wnating help.. James and myself came to help you.. after Kevin Millis gave out those 22 black belts in his Dojo to make the $$ so he could travel to Japn and pay for his personal needs we will not go into..

Living in a fantasy land doesn't give you any extra knowledge about combative skills or give you 'rights' to speak about them as if you have some special experience in fighting.. which you do not..

Over the past two years of your BS you have yet to prove anything about yourself or prove me incorrect on any of my statements regardless of your post and misleading twisted lies.

Let us talk straight about the shidoshikai and what it really isn't.. and what it wants to be.. ok.. get on subject Donny. Be honest.

ralph severe, kamiyama

Jason Chambers
6th November 2004, 22:01
Ralph, listen... I respect you immensely and all. I have always found your insight to be "enlightening" but could you please start another thread to continue your current rant about the Bujinkan? Please?

I don't want my post to turn into a flame-fest. I am tryin gto get a little help here.

Please my friend? Take this out in to the parking lot or something...

:)

____________________________________

Chris & Sean:

I remember the comment now that I was reminded of it. What can I say? I am sorry if it was offensive. I was in a very different mindset when I posted that. Please forgive my lax in professional courtesy.

:D

Ghost Cat
7th November 2004, 02:00
Originally posted by rurouni
Ah-ha! I understand what is going on now.

Thanks.

Glad to be of help. It is good to know what has been proven, what has been exposed and what some people have been doing with your own eyes.

Kamiyama
7th November 2004, 07:23
Sorry Jason..


By the way Donny.. I have a shidoshi license in my lobby.. I wonder if that means.. I can or cannot teach Bujinkan arts?
So what do you have to say about that Donny?
We all know you don't have a license.. so..

ralph severe, kamiyama

Ghost Cat
7th November 2004, 08:17
Originally posted by Kamiyama
By the way Donny.. I have a shidoshi license in my lobby.. I wonder if that means.. I can or cannot teach Bujinkan arts?
So what do you have to say about that Donny?
We all know you don't have a license.. so..

Something from 1991 does not count. You have to have a current shidoshikai liscense. You do not.

And I don't teach. I don't care to teach. I don't like the idea of teaching.

So.......:D

Jason Chambers
7th November 2004, 13:17
I think the both of you are "teaching" everyone else here a whole lot in how to argue. :(

Anyone wishing to reply to my original post in this thread, please do so via PM or email, whether you have something good or bad to say, I would still like to hear from you.

This thread has been ear marked for Don and Ralph to play obviously.

:(