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nicojo
2nd February 2005, 20:05
Well, maybe a couple of questions here will make up for my recent thread drifts.

I have been wondering if there is a connection between the meiji edict of banning swords and the trend to only use katana in certain iaido styles. And if perhaps another stressor was the U.S. sword round-up after the war. Generally I wonder why some ryu do not train with kodachi and I wonder if these are some reasons. These may be obvious to some, but specific accounts would be welcome to answer some deeper questions I have, namely outside pressures on koryu to modify, change, or abandon curriculum.

Thank you for your replies.

---
It may be of interest to some that Toyoda Sensei told me this summer that senbu/shibu developed quite a bit under the American occupation as traditional kenbu was not allowed because of the use of swords. At least, I think that's what he said. But he held on to the kenbu dances and teaches it now as well as shibu.

Joseph Svinth
3rd February 2005, 05:35
Some background on immediate postwar kendo appears at http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_svinth_1202.htm . As you can see, the koryu community does not seem to have been much affected by all this, especially outside Tokyo.

nicojo
3rd February 2005, 17:06
Well Mr. Svinth, thank you very much. Some questions/observations remain, though that was quite a good read. Thanks for putting it together in the first place. Not quite done with it yet, but I am making my way through.

Okay, here is a quote under this section:
Excerpts of Report from the 9th Session of the Committee on Petitions held on 30 August 1946 during the 90th Session of the House of Representatives

Mr. Bando, member of the Diet-- "Judo is banned, but there are various jujitsu, similar to judo, such as the Azuma school, or Shibukawa school. Also there is karate. Do you mean all these, as well as judo, are banned?"

Mr. Hidaka, government representative--"Yes, it is so. Judo, karate, kyudo, everything that is called by the name of budo is not supposed to be used [in the schools]. That is the understanding we have agreed upon."

Because Mr. Bando gives specific names of jujitsu "schools", Azuma and Shibukawa, may I read these as surviving koryu-ha, or are these branches of kodokan judo? Mr. Hidaka responds in any case that these are also banned so I wonder if this actually does involve koryu. My knowledge of judo and its history is not so good--I need to buy your book...

Now this is interesting:
Invitation to the Acting Meeting of the Ancient Japanese Knight Arts, 28 May 1948] After the list of various -jutsus demonstrated there is an "Explanation": [quote]2. Explanation
The ancient Japanese knight arts are quite different from these at present. Because these arts were always performed for them in order to cultivate their merits of coutesy (sic), modesty, morality and affection. Through these arts they loved peace as their Japanese letters are showing their meaning "stop war".

The ancient Japanese knight pursuits the gentlemanship. They are strickly (sic) prohibited from use their sowrds (sic) and spears at rnadom (sic). Cosequently (sic) it is evident that these instructors were gentlemen and always looked up to by people then contributed to that times.

Now, we, niheritors (sic), will get together and hold this meeting for the purpose of thinking of past.

Several things here: is this a demonstration of one ryu-ha or several, and what was Mr. Tetsusaburo Kawauchi's role or rank or advisory position? Very interesting to note the parallel to European chivalry played out again which seems to have been a familiar way of explaining koryu to outsiders, western or japanese, at this point. There is also the contrast between TK's ancient knightly arts and those of today. This is weird because he marks koryu as different because of this gentlemanly aspect. But today we think of judo et al as being the character building stuff. In any case, if I were a cynic, I'd say here is a wholesale wolf-in-sheeps-clothing attempt to show koryu as benign and character building in order to start getting it recognized by the new, pacific government. In literature, I'd call this a conflict of rhetoric, a disjunction, and then I'd get all Derrida on it. But there's only so far that kind of analysis can go as well.

In the next section, there is this: "Judo -- A very active use of all big muscle groups is made." Which is a clear, post-war acknowledgement of the big necks you guys always get. :p Of course, here is this: "2. Kyudo -- A semi-active sport, particularly good for girls..." and this "3. Kendo -- A questionable activity...If war cries are eliminated, it would possibly be on the same level with our foils, sabre, and epee" to show I'm happy to fling stones at everyone.
:D

All in good fun, post back and tell me I wear a skirt and don't REALLY practice a martial art. ;) And in case people think this thread is a gendai/koryu thing, it isn't. Since iaido is "no longer a bujutsu, not yet a budo" to some, I think it inherently has some interesting fracture-points. Sorry to be trying to use those for research.

I will post more questions later for the general readership.

SKalogre
3rd February 2005, 18:14
Well, to throw the little I know in this, kendo seems to have been square on the crosshairs of the occupation authority due to its ties to the military and the Bushido-related pre-WW2 propaganda, so what was true of kendo may not be true of all other budo else – hence the “shinai fencing” that appeared after WW2.

Kendo, post war (http://www.auskf.info/mainpages/article2.htm)

Anyway, the impression I get from articles I have read is that the banning of budo and swords was mostly strict with the exception of the people practicing in secret ;) .

Ps. That is fascinating info about kenbu. I never even thought about that.

paul manogue
4th February 2005, 18:54
Koryu are closed societies to begin with, many koryu practioners in Japan I know do not really consider the arts they train in a "budo" to begin with, so it would not fit under the terms in the articles.

When I asked the wife of the previous soke of our system what they did after the war, she said "we trained like we always did, we just didnt do embu" None of the koryu would have been taught in schools either, so the budo ban would have had no effect on them.

nicojo
6th February 2005, 01:04
Thank you for your comments Mr. Manogue.
None of the koryu would have been taught in schools either, so the budo ban would have had no effect on them.

I see this, and I'm inclined to agree, for it seems the chief focus of the "ban" was on those arts seen aligned with the more nationalist groups or cultural things. Since koryu weren't taught in the schools this way they may have been overlooked.

Still, I wonder about the mentions of "-jutsu" that I selected from the ejmas article, because the one suggests to me that certain forms of jujutsu were monitored and perhaps affected and the other suggests to me a need for at least one group to show themselves as beneficial to society--doesn't seem necessary for an insular group not threatened to do, I would think. Perhaps they were just trying to reestablish themselves or start up the embus again, or trying to find students--I wouldn't know but I'm interested for some reason.

Well so much, at this point, for WWII restrictions on koryu. Any anecdotes along the lines of the one I put in my initial post, or like Mr. Manogue's, from teachers who were there may be helpful for the general record: such people may not be available for their testimony soon, despite the problems inherent in oral records.

---

As far as Meiji era, I am just thinking there must be a lot somewhere as there are three or four rather drastic things in Japan society that to my armchair-girded butt seem to have been pressures or stressors on koryu, however insular they were. These are the american/western presence in the 1830-s to 1850-s, the end of the shogunate and the restoration, the sword ban and the various rebellions. So, some more reading then for now.

Joseph Svinth
6th February 2005, 10:03
Compare and contrast. Summarized from Japan Times, September 18, 1938:

On September 15, 1938, some visiting Hitler Youth were sent to see "old budo" in Tokyo. The jujutsu of the Shin-no-Shindo school included a demo by Mrs. Takeyo Suzuki and Mrs. Kaneko Inai, and the sojutsu/bojutsu of the Katori-Shinto-ryu included a demonstration by Mrs. Kimiko Sugino. Jingai jutsu, kyujutsu, iaijutsu, jujutsu (various schools), naginata-jutsu,jojutsu, kusarigama-jutsu, tachi-jutsu, sojutsu, bojutsu, shuriken jutsu, and kudaya jutsu were also shown.

NOTE: Shin-no-Shindo is the same style that WE Fairbairn studied in Shanghai. You will recall that the Gestapo called Fairbairn's interpretation "gangster tactics." So, clearly, presentation is important.

***

As for the bans, nobody much cared what you did in the park or your backyard. However, they were strict in terms of public space. Thus, police stations, universities, high schools, churches, hospitals, and the like could not sponsor martial art activities as they had before the war.