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Tatsumaru
4th March 2002, 01:31
Wich one is a really good japanese martial art that combines both grappling techniques and striking techniques ?


:confused:

yamamatsuryu
4th March 2002, 05:28
There are quite a few, actually. YOu need to narrow it down a bit more.

Jared Albrecht

Soulend
5th March 2002, 05:38
Unless I'm mistaken, nearly all Japanese grappling arts also include atemi (striking) in their repertoire of techniques. Though I'm certainly not qualified to distinguish between those arts which are 'good' and those which are 'not good'.

Also, Tatsumaru, please sign your posts with your full name, as per e-budo rules. Welcome to the forum!:wave:

fifthchamber
29th June 2004, 21:45
Hello All.
I am about to move out to Tokyo-To, Musashimurayama-shi, Northwest of Tokyo central...A few stops away from Nakata station...My closest railway stop is Tachikawa city...On the Chuo line I think...
My question is for anyone here that has the experience I guess...I have seen quite a few of the Koryu schools based near where I will be...They range from the Ono-ha Itto Ryu through to Toda-ha Buko Ryu....I am spoilt for choice...But the question is exactly what should I seek to do when I arrive...How do I approach the schools I would like to see? Indeed, what schools could you recommend? Are there any instructors to look for near Tokyo from the Koryu side of things?
I am aware that the majority of the schools I know of allow visitors to view training...So maybe it is not the event I think it is...But does anyone have any advice for me?
Anything else that you can add please do so....Anything is appreciated.
Keigu.

Shimura
29th June 2004, 22:01
I know of a few schools in the general area, but mostly by Yokohama, which is quite a ways from where you will be. I do know of a Shinto-ryu sword teacher (his name leaves me) who teaches on the local Army installation, Camp Zama, which isn't to far from Yokota AFB. My old Kendo dojo, under Tajima sensei, is in Zushi, about 20 miles outside the main Naval base at Yokosuka and right down the road from Kamakura. He also practices Muso Shinden Ryu Iai. It's right next to the local High school in Zushi. If you want exact directions you can PM my fellow Kendoka who trained with me there, Kenseikan.

As for training at these places the standard procedure is to have some form of introduction through a mutual friend, then a period of watching (couple of days), a little conversation with the head of the dojo and then if everything is kosher, your in. Not hard, just be polite, and remember your manners and etiquette. I wish I had the exact info on my old sword school where I practiced MJER in Kawasaki (again a little distant, but by train you can get antwhere). I'll contact my old dojo mate there and get the info, if you'd like. PM me, and I'll try to get more info. Enjoy your stay in Japan, and I wish I was with you. Gambatte mas!

Dave Neeley
29th June 2004, 23:51
I'm not sure how close you are to Omiya, but Kuroda Tetsuzan Sensei teaches there. If you are interested, let me know and I will put you in contact with him.

Mekugi
30th June 2004, 03:10
My idea is that you should not train anywhere without consulting Mr. Tanemura first, and get his permission foremost.

After that, when and if you have permission from Tanemura, go and ask a group if you can sit in on a class. This is kengaku. If you are still interested, ask them what is required for you to join.

Take it step at a time and do not rush. If you are in a hurry, better to take Judo or Aikido or something like that at a local gym.

Always,

-Russ


Originally posted by fifthchamber
Hello All.
I am about to move out to Tokyo-To, Musashimurayama-shi, Northwest of Tokyo central...A few stops away from Nakata station...My closest railway stop is Tachikawa city...On the Chuo line I think...
My question is for anyone here that has the experience I guess...I have seen quite a few of the Koryu schools based near where I will be...They range from the Ono-ha Itto Ryu through to Toda-ha Buko Ryu....I am spoilt for choice...But the question is exactly what should I seek to do when I arrive...How do I approach the schools I would like to see? Indeed, what schools could you recommend? Are there any instructors to look for near Tokyo from the Koryu side of things?
I am aware that the majority of the schools I know of allow visitors to view training...So maybe it is not the event I think it is...But does anyone have any advice for me?
Anything else that you can add please do so....Anything is appreciated.
Keigu.

fifthchamber
30th June 2004, 17:47
Hi Russ..
Don't worry...I had no intention of doing anything without Sensei's permission...I was hoping to be able to ask him for suggestions also...But we'll see...
Everyone else...Thanks for the help..I will PM and see what comes of it! Your time is much appreciated!
Thanks all!
Regards

Steve Delaney
1st July 2004, 16:12
Good luck with the move Ben.

Next November 3rd will see the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai's Honno Embu at Meiji Jingu park, near Sangu bashi. I suggest viewing the ryuha at this demonstration and see what's there before making any decisions.

BTW, I didn't know that Genbukan policy allowed degeiko. Have you checked with Mr. Tanemura?

Cheers,

Mekugi
2nd July 2004, 08:20
Any news about the next IBU event? Is't that coming up this fall?

That might be the way to go there!!




Originally posted by Steve Delaney
Good luck with the move Ben.

Next November 3rd will see the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai's Honno Embu at Meiji Jingu park, near Sangu bashi. I suggest viewing the ryuha at this demonstration and see what's there before making any decisions.

BTW, I didn't know that Genbukan policy allowed degeiko. Have you checked with Mr. Tanemura?

Cheers,

Steve Delaney
2nd July 2004, 21:14
Russ,

The next IBU international budo seminar isn't until next March.

I'd say that Meiji would be the way to go. It's closer in regards to time & distance and you get to see about 52 ryuha demonstrate.

fifthchamber
3rd July 2004, 10:01
Hi Steve,
Thanks for the notice on the next Honno Enbu...That was one I thought to look for but had no dates on...I shall be about for the march IBU one also so thanks for that one too!
As regards degeiko....I am not in contact with Tanemura Sensei myself...So everything comes pretty much second hand...But I don't foresee any problems...If there are then there are. And that's that....But like I said, I don't think there will be.....But don't know....
Maybe I should try emailing John or Coleman Sensei...
Anyway...The Enbu news is good.
Regards

Ron Beaubien
3rd July 2004, 13:51
Hello,


...What schools could you recommend? ... But does anyone have any advice for me?

Take your time to get settled in first. That in itself could take six months to get into the flow of things.

Read Dave Lowry's essay in Keiko Shokon:

http://koryu.com/store/ks3.html

Their other two books are must reads as well if you haven't read them already not to mention everything on their website.


...I am spoilt for choice...

Your choice of school will probably be severely limited by your work schedule and location more than anything else. Even then, ultimately the instructor will do the choosing whether or not they allow you to join.

Each school also has its own personality. You should think deeply about how it will affect you as a person and how it will conflict with your current training.

Also be prepared to commit to staying in Japan and training several (at the very least five, if not ten) years. Some schools may recommend you try kendo or iaido instead for anything less. No need to waste your time and theirs if you'll never even get past the basics and be unable to become a member who actively contributes back to the ryu.

You should also make clear to the school that you would like to join that you are currently training under Tanemura sensei and have his permission to train with them. As with any personal or political relationship this is a double edged sword, but it would be best to make this clear from the beginning rather than have it "discovered" later.

Start learning Japanese if you haven't started already. Koryu is rarely taught in English. It would be hard if not impossible to become a full member of the group when you don't know what anyone is saying and are reduced to communicating with primitive hand signals. Not being able to effectively communicate would severely hamper your progress not only in the dojo but also in daily life as well.

Steve and I will be at Meiji Shrine on November 3rd. It would probably be best to talk more then. When not demonstrating, Steve will be the one handing out programs and I'll be the one with my head stuck behind a large camera. Don't be afraid to say hello.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Ron Beaubien

Steve Delaney
3rd July 2004, 17:23
Ah yes, the damn pamphlet desk. Oh and then I have to dole out the bento for all of the demonstrators. After that I have to demonstrate my ryuha. Culture day is always hectic for me. :rolleyes:

Not that I am complaining :D

fifthchamber
7th July 2004, 19:03
Hello Mr. Beaubien,
My thanks for the advice. I am aware that it is not as short term thing...And that I will need plenty of time to sort myself out before I can think of anything other than teaching! But I like to plan ahead...As much as one can anyways...
The points about the schools personalities interested me also...Would you say that it is possible to see or understand the Ryuha's personality by seeing them in action?...Or by training with them for a short time?
I shall certainly seek both yourself and Mr. Delaney out at the Taikai...It would be good to chat to someone who has been through what I want to go through...I won't miss the chance.
As for the Japanese studies....Hai, wakarimashita, nihon-go o benkyo shimasu...Mada heta desu....But it's not too bad....Compared to some of the JET's I heard at the induction yesterday....I have a hope!
Again, thanks for your help (Both of you).
Yours.
Ben

Steve Delaney
8th July 2004, 01:12
Oh you're in the JET program?

That means you're on a three year contract with your local board of education. I know it's a bit premature, but are you thinking about staying longer than your contracted three years?

Hope to meet you soon.

El Guapo-san
8th July 2004, 08:50
While I've not had much exposure to training in Japan outside of the Bujinkan, I can tell you that you're getting good advice here. Even within Booj, different schools have different approaches, and some of the things here that I have seen would apply there.

Japanese is the biggest thing (you can't possibly imagine), and just remember that everything you've learned up until touching down at Narita is probably wrong. (Only after 2 weeks was I able to beging to have normal conversations with my in-laws because I was using -masu all the time and they were using simple form, for example.)

Getting used to being there can be good, but picking up a generic aikido, judo or kendo class or two may be good enough to give you the local flavour of classes in Japan and ease the transition. May also end up giving you some social contacts, which are invaluable in settling in. Nothing like walking around Ginza alone on a Saturday, not undstanding a thing, to make you feel down. If all else fails, buy a copy of the Japan Times and ride around on the Yamanote or Chuo lines or sit in a Starbucks where you see lots of single office ladies, you'll get picked up for free language lessons, I guarantee. On the other hand, they will not want to hear about your budo, so develop other local interests that you can talk about to avoid being labled 'budo no otaku'.

Doesn't Roy Ron have a Genbukan school in Tokyo?

Russ, you all going to do another Denshukai next year?

J. Vlach, Amsterdam

Renshi
8th July 2004, 12:49
Well Ben ,

Not having enough material in the Genbukan/KJJR curriculum ? I doubt it.
Bad manners asking around without consulting your sensei first.

Sincerely,

fifthchamber
9th July 2004, 15:14
Hello Peter.
On the contrary, there is more than enough material to train in with the Genbukan.....There is no end to the stuff we have to learn here...However, I have wanted to see Koryu in particular since before I started training in the Genbukan....Being in England means that the amount of possible Koryu on offer to me is virually zero. Since I will be in Japan it is (To me at least) rather silly not to follow my dream...No?
As for speaking to Tanemura Sensei (I presume that was who you meant?), as a Kyu rank I have had no contact with him...So have not been able to ask his view. When I manage to get to Honbu dojo I shall..But until then the only option open to me is here...And I believe there is no question of this being bad manners at all...I am curious...It is a chance of a lifetime and one that I would not miss for the world...I intend NO disrespect to anyone. Especially Tanemura Sensei...But my situation has meant that this is the only way to find out what I wanted to know...
I see no problem here.
Regards.

fifthchamber
9th July 2004, 18:33
Hello Steve.
A bit early yes....But I fully intend to stay there as long as my fortune allows....London would be great to see as a tourist and I want to be out there long enough to be able to see it as such....Those dudes get all the fun of London without the suffering!!
So yes....As long as I can possibly be out there..
Regards.

Ron Beaubien
15th July 2004, 04:56
Hello,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I was quite busy last week.


Hello Mr. Beaubien

Please call me Ron.


The points about the schools personalities interested me also...Would you say that it is possible to see or understand the Ryuha's personality by seeing them in action?...Or by training with them for a short time?

I think that it is probably more likely that one may get a better understanding of what a school's personality might be if they use many different sources of information. Read what has already been written, watch the koryu videos produced by the Nippon Budokan, talk to senior practitioners of the arts, go to a few demonstrations, etc.

Of course, don't get me wrong, nothing beats first hand experience but training with them for a short time is not really a viable option. A lot of the teaching is labor intensive and most, if not all, koryu teachers don't really make any money off of the arts. Most of them either have full time jobs or have already retired and survive on their pensions. Their limited time is better spent on teaching people who are already committed to the school.

Moving from one dojo to another also can cause resentment between teachers although they may not state it openly. I also think a lot of teachers would be less likely to take a person seriously if they are hopping from dojo to dojo. The koryu bugei community is quite small actually and word gets around.

I think one should think deeply about what they are looking for. Some schools have techniques that are dynamic and flashy, others more direct and reserved. Different flavors, but not necessarily better or worse, just different. An unarmed dueling system? A Sengoku period weapons based battlefield school? Edo period unarmed self-defense? Sure everyone wants it all but very few schools have all of that. On the other hand, some schools have so many techniques that one could never master them all in a lifetime while others only have a handful of techniques left.

There are some schools may only have one teacher per generation and not allow others to teach. Not a problem if one plans to live the rest of his or her life in Japan, but if they move back home later they will have to stop training entirely or else be looked down on as being illegitimate - not a good situation.

I think most people who are training in more than one school find it easier to train in two schools that are completely different. For example, swordsmanship and swimming or archery and grappling. That way there is almost no crossover in technique to cause confusion or corrupt the technique of the other school.

There is a lot to think about. I hope that helps you in making your own decisions about possibly doing some koryu training in Japan. We are very lucky to be allowed to train in these older systems and I think most of us that came from the West would like that to continue by giving the teachers a minimum of hassle. Good luck and I'll see you at the Meiji demonstration.

Regards,

Ron Beaubien

meat
5th February 2005, 11:26
Hi guys, I'm starting to narrow down certain details of my stay in Japan. Looks like I'll definately be living in the Kyoto area, probably somewhere near the main train station. I'll be seriously ecstatic if I can just train in kyudo and judo, but if I can get into koryu, well lets just say it'd be a dream come true so to speak.
I've looked around koryu.com and a few other places, and I've found 3 schools that seriously interest me:

Hontai yoshin ryu jujutsu
Hozoin ryu sojutsu
Tendo ryu naginatajutsu

Here's where it gets tricky. I pretty much have no useful connections whatsoever for getting into a koryu school. The most I could probably get would be an introduction letter from my judo instructor or an acquaintance who is a 2nd dan in Muso Shinden ryu iai.
Does anyone have any experience in these ryu? Does anyone know the procedures to get into these schools, or how strict/lax they are with prospective students?
Any help is extremely appreciated.
Thankyou

Ellis Amdur
5th February 2005, 16:29
This idea of introductions has been blown up a bit out of proportion. I was invited to join one koryu aftger violating any and all of the sanctified procedures: I had no introduction, I spoke almost no Japanese, I was dressed very casually. Above and beyond all of that, one is invited due to a human connection. Many instructors, faced by the conundrum of a foreigner "out of context," will fall back on the only thing left - what their impression is of the man or woman in front of them - in other words, just like people do in any culture.

That said, an introduction from your judo instructor should be more than enough, particularly if you approach the dojo congruent to the praise that will undoubtedly be in the letter. Remember, in a real sense, the idea of an introduction is that it gives a) a context - where you are "from," b) who to go to if you mess up. In other words, if your instructor (or a citizen from any social group) writes such a letter, they are taking responsibility for you, and further, as a representative of their group, their GROUP is taking responsibility for you.

Anyway, Yoshin-ryu, in particular, should appreciate the judo intro, because they're a jujutsu school. Tendo-ryu is largely a woman's world, which can be interesting - the social dynamics of conflict within the dojo are quite different.

Best

Mekugi
5th February 2005, 17:24
Takenouchi ryu, the Bitchuden line is down there too. Also, Kukishinden Tenshin Hyoho is around in Hyogo.

Ellis is right. There is too much made out of the introduction thing. Just ask for Kengaku and see where it goes from there! Simple!

Originally posted by meat
Hi guys, I'm starting to narrow down certain details of my stay in Japan. Looks like I'll definately be living in the Kyoto area, probably somewhere near the main train station. I'll be seriously ecstatic if I can just train in kyudo and judo, but if I can get into koryu, well lets just say it'd be a dream come true so to speak.
I've looked around koryu.com and a few other places, and I've found 3 schools that seriously interest me:

Hontai yoshin ryu jujutsu
Hozoin ryu sojutsu
Tendo ryu naginatajutsu

Here's where it gets tricky. I pretty much have no useful connections whatsoever for getting into a koryu school. The most I could probably get would be an introduction letter from my judo instructor or an acquaintance who is a 2nd dan in Muso Shinden ryu iai.
Does anyone have any experience in these ryu? Does anyone know the procedures to get into these schools, or how strict/lax they are with prospective students?
Any help is extremely appreciated.
Thankyou

wmuromoto
5th February 2005, 17:49
If you are staying in Kyoto, you might think of observing a Takeuchi-ryu session at the Choufukan dojo, in northern Kyoto city, by the Shakkadaniguchi bus stop. I'm not going to vouch for you since I don't know you from Adam, but just drop in and ask to kengaku and take it from there.

Ono sensei, Kancho, is more than willing to let you watch. If you speak any smattering of Japanese, you will find him, like I have found many koryu teachers, to be quite open and friendly. Eccentric, too. But very friendly. You may also find that the college student deshi will want to practice their English on you.

Wayne Mruomoto

wmuromoto
5th February 2005, 17:51
PS,

A letter of introduction from you Japanese sponsor or employer may be more impressive to Kancho than one from a judo teacher from your own country that he has no connection to.

Letting a teacher know that you did judo (a bit) will help. But don't brag too much about it. SImple common sense stuff re: human relationships.

Wayne

Ellis Amdur
5th February 2005, 18:13
Sorry, should have read your letter better. Wayne is right. A letter from an American judo teacher (unless Japanese, written in Japanese) will certainly have less weight than your sponsor or employer.

Best

Mekugi
5th February 2005, 19:21
I agree with this 100%. You aren't there to show them what you know, you are there to learn. Matter of fact, they may not care. I wouldn't mention it unless they ask.

Just remember that you are there for them, they are not there for you. Be on your best behavior, wear nice clothes and remember to groom properly- it may seem stuffy but it can help. You may even have to go and watch a few times before being spoke to about joining, so be patient and do not be discouraged. This is of course, in general and not about any one dojo in particular.


Originally posted by wmuromoto

Letting a teacher know that you did judo (a bit) will help. But don't brag too much about it. SImple common sense stuff re: human relationships.

Wayne

nicojo
6th February 2005, 00:21
It is basic, but have you thought of using those names in search engine to see what others have said about the ryu? Because I have noticed one or two e-budo people, who do not study in Hozoin ryu, who do have contacts. PM them. But I think you will be fine and Kansai needs more good koryu guys to fight back all those Tokyo types, heh.

meat
6th February 2005, 23:30
Thanks so much to everyone for the wonderful responses, it is a great help! Things seem much more encouraging now
:)