Kuroda Han torite/yawara/etc. ?

[Matthew Lawrence]

A questio for the budo scholars:

Is there any research available on the existence of ryu in the Kuroda Han that included torite/yawara and were practiced at the same time as SMR? It seems odd that SMR did not assimilate such a ryu given its proclivity for subsuming other arts.

Just curious.

[Steve Delaney]

There must be loads of jujutsu/yawara ryuha left in the Kuroda-han area. The ones I know that are still extant are Ise Jitoku Tenshin-ryu, Sosuishi-ryu, Shiten-ryu (Hoshino-ha) and Takenouchi Santo-ryu. There is also a dojo in Fukuoka that teaches Jigo Tenshin-ryu, that still teaches battojutsu, but I'm not sure if they teach the Ise Jitoku yawara though.

[Ellis Amdur]

Steve -

Is Takenouchi Santo-ryu actually still extant? Or is it a reconstruction? Back in the 70's, I did some checking around, and there wasn't any active TST-ryu active that I could find then.

Ellis

[Steve Delaney]

Ellis,

Yes, Takenouchi Santo-ryu is still extant in Kumamoto.

My friend's teacher went to visit them last year. They are still around.

I only just learned about this 6 weeks ago on my last visit to Japan.

[Dan Harden]

Deleted
meant to send private email

[Andy Watson]

While it might be hard to argue that it is Yawara, there are some grappling-with-a-jo techniques in MSR. They include tori jo (similar to aiki tori jo) and escapes from grips, strangulations etc.

[Steve Delaney]

While it might be hard to argue that it is Yawara, there are some grappling-with-a-jo techniques in MSR. They include tori jo (similar to aiki tori jo) and escapes from grips, strangulations etc.

:confused: MSR? Muso Shinden-ryu? I thought that was a Tosa-han budo.

[Andy Watson]

Sorry, getting me arts mixed up. I meant SMR.

Don't know how well this will work but here are the forms..


Katate dori
One hand catch
片手捕

Ryote dori
Two hand catch
両手捕

Zenkindori kote nage
Front lapel catch and wrist throw
前襟捕小手投げ

Ushiro dakitsuki hiji katame
Rear hug and elbow lock
後ろ抱きつき肘固め

Ganmen uchi kubi katame
Face strike and neck lock
願面打ち首固め

Uchikomi hiji katame
Attack and neck lock
打込み肘固め

[Steve Delaney]

Are you sure that those forms were around during the Bakumatsu period?

Uchida-ryu wasn't really subsumed into the ryuha 'til the Meiji period. Is it possible they are something new to the system?

Just a thought.

[Andy Watson]

I'll be honest, all those forms are from Shimizu Takaji's jodo book. Whether they are recent additions (possibly from the police force self defence system) or old, I don't know. They are entitled "Goshin Jutsu" (self defence) so the former is quite likely.

Is there a member of the Skoss family here who can help?

[Ellis Amdur]

Uchida-ryu is new. Uchida Ryohei created the forms for walking-stick. It was originally, I believe, called "sutekki-jutsu." Uchida, along with his mentor, Toyama Mitsuru was one of the leaders of the kokuryukai ("Amur River Society") and other far-right political factions, that were political activists, sometimes terrorist groups. Left and right wing political groups in the Meiji period engaged in many street battles. Swords were outlawed, and the main weapons were sword-canes and walking sticks. I don't know the date that the ryu was formally created, but it was the late 1800's, and was simply derived from Shinto Muso-ryu.

Ellis Amdur

[Steve Delaney]

Ellis,

That's the history of Uchida-ryu that I have read and am familiar with. Thanks for the verification on that.

Andy, yes, I have the same book, the Jodo Kyohan with the same techniques, so I was thinking that maybe it was something that was new and added on to the ryuha.

[Eric Montes]

Andy,
I don't have the book in front of me at the moment. But those are the techniques that Kaminoda Sensei demonstrates at the end of the book, correct?

Those are outside of Shinto(do) Muso Ryu. I believe the captions indicate the techniques are supplementary material based on the Kaminoda Sensei's Police training.

Eric

[Andy Watson]

I stand corrected. Benkyo narimashita.