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kroh
4th March 2005, 14:04
Hey there All,

I am a long time lurker but I thought this question would be worthy of posting.

There is a wealth of info from everywhere these days and as martial artists train more they begin to pick up and use different things that don't belong to the technical syllabus of the system they train in (holy run on sentence).

When you pick up these techniques, do you incorporate them into the training system you follow or taught as a separate from the standard class? For example, I have a friend who runs a jujutsu club. He also has trained extensively with many "popular" trainers on the subject of the Indonesian Kerambit knife. He does not train his students using the kerambit during the jujutsu class and trains the knife separately.

Is this the standard practice for such things or is happening less as time goes on. There is a lot of cross training going on and with that being the case... What happens to the systems with verifiable lineages. Do they not teach these things so as not to "polute the well?" If they absorb these "new" practices do they keep the system name or change it to reflect a new branch or direction?

Thanks for the minute...
Regards,
Walt

MarkF
4th March 2005, 14:49
It is a good question and you are welcome to discuss it, but some people do learn other things martial and decide it may interest others.

My thought, however, is that it sounds eerily similar to the founders of some of the most popular martial ways, or as Donn Draeger called them, something similar to "civilian fighting arts (I do not have time to get the correct term, but it is similar).

For example, Kodokan Judo came from a combination of other ryu, starting with a now-defunct budo called Jikishin-ryu (not the same as jikishin kage-ryu) that was in practice by no later than the 18th century. The founder of that ryu, called his ryu Jikishin ryu judo (or something like yawara no michi or ju no michi. Same kanji as in Judo), and which had, at its heart, a form of randori (ran). This school was followed by Kito-ryu, a still active, but very small school, Tenshin Shin-yo ryu, Yoshin ryu and, perhaps, a few others.

The original Kodokan had such practices and uses of sword and other weapons, and some of these are still practiced, but originally, while they were named for the attack, the defense from the attack was the point. It seems to be made especially for women, in many cases.

Newer arts were formed in the same way. Aikido, a post-war name of an older art (aikibudo). There are weapons, eg, aiki-ken.

Just using Jigoro Kano and Morihei Uyeshiba, they are models for the "new age." While Judo goes back to 1882, Aikido does to daito-ryu, though that is still taught independently of Aikido. Even the art, most famously practiced by a character in a series of books (Sherlock Holmes), right now there is a group trying to find connections to "bartitsu."

Cross-training does go back to, at least, Jigoro Kano, as the Kodokan was home to a managerie of budoka who taught there, and today, some still do, mainly as seminars. The most oft-practiced weapons art studied by judoka seems to be the jo (jodo, jojutsu). And there are some technique in Judo allowed today and practiced as if they were Kodokan waza. At the old (founded in 1895 Zen Nihon Butokukai), they gathered together a great many to add to the Kendo and Judo taught there. There were others, but early on it was judo and kendo. While there is another organization by the same name where all sorts of mostly gendai budo is taught, it truly has nothing to do with the old Butokukai, which was disbanded in 1946, I believe.

For a short time, I trained in a dojo in New York city where aikido, JSA, karate were taught, sometimes at the same time on the same floor, though by separate instructors.

But you are right, people are seeing the advantages to cross training, something I sometimes wish I had done, but isn't in the cards now. At the same time, it isn't exactly a new invention.;) What else have you found out there?


Mark