Chito-ryu karate?

[d_w]

I am thinking of trying this style of karate and I was just wondering whether anyone could offer some opinions of this compared to other karate styles? Also if anyone studies it what is it like? I know I will probably know by just doing it which I will do, but just trying to learn about it beforehand.

Thanks.

[Harry Cook]

If you find a good teacher it will be a good style, if not.....
All styles are based on similar principles, and they all use 2 arms, 2 legs and 1 head. Some encourage heavy contact others don't, it is often down to the whim of the instructor.
Harry Cook

[Bob van Tuyn]

I don’t agree with that completely, it’s a argument that I’ve seen many times. But there are style differences!!. Otherwise the differences between, kickboxing, thai boxing, savate, karate, Wuzo etc, etc would also be negligible and would only depend on the instructor.

Within karate the style does matter! The quality of teaching etc. is of course influenced by the teacher. As is with everything in live that is being teached. Even math, science etc.

So my advise would be, find some information on the style you want and then find a good teacher.

Gr.

Bob

[Geoff]

You might find this article on a leading Chito-ryu representative interesting:

Toth, O. & Toth, R. "Basic foundations in Okinwan karate: Interview with Canadian Tsuruoka Masami", Journal of Asian Martial Arts, V. 12, no. 4 (2003). www.goviamedia.com

Unfortunately, I know little else about the style.

Good luck,

[galo]

I am thinking of trying this style of karate and I was just wondering whether anyone could offer some opinions of this compared to other karate styles? Also if anyone studies it what is it like? I know I will probably know by just doing it which I will do, but just trying to learn about it beforehand.

Thanks.


If anyone knows... is this the same as Shito Ryu Karate? or is it a different style we're talking about?
My first MA training was karate and it was "shito-ryu" as I recall to have seen it spelled. Hope I haven't lived my life with a wrong memory :p


d_w
Sometimes it's easier to work things the other way around. What style do you have available in your area and just find out if it works for you. =)

[Geoff]

Different styles. AFAIK, Chito-ryu is a post-war style created by Dr. Chitose. Shito-ryu has roots in pre-war Japan and Okinawa.

[Harry Cook]

Mr. van Tuyn believes that styles are important, but when push turns to shove and the fighting is for real then the differences in technique turn out to be superficial, and what matters is conditioning, fighting spirit etc etc. This tends to come from the instructor, although of course certain styles tend to specialise in one approach.
Harry Cook

[Timothy.G.B.]

I would agree that style does make a difference and yet, it is not the only thing that matters. Here is my opinion:

First, there is good technique for fighting that will keep you safer and there is bad technique which will put you at risk of getting seriously injured.

Second, there is sound fighting theory that will keep you safer and unsound or a lack of fighting theory that will put you at risk.

Third, there is the spirit to fight. Someone must have it in them to be willing and able to inflict potentially serious injury on another person to protect themselves. If you don't have it, then technique and theory can be compromised.

There is no subsititute for good fighting technique and some styles have better fighting technique than others. Most schools that actually teach good fighting technique are small, are closed door and don't show up at most tournaments.

Best,
Tim Black
3rd Dan Shorinryu
Kokusai Shinjinbukan

[Bob van Tuyn]

Conditioning, fighting spirit etc. Are in my opinion the things that nobody can teach you… You yourself should have the drive to improve mentally and fiscally. Teacher can’t teach this.

The things other people can teach you are techniques and ideas on fighting. And this is where MA are different from each other, in the words of Harry cook “of course certain styles tend to specialise in one approach” (and thus yes style does matter). For example in TKD not much emphasize is placed on fighting on the ground while in Judo there is.

Of course the ideal teacher teaches everything but this is almost not possible and not common.

So does a TKD person react different in a situation than a Judo person or krafmega person yes because of the different approach to a fight that they have in their MA-system.

Grtz.

[Harry Cook]

The style matters only if the teacher's approach suits you and your own strengths and weaknesses. For example if you have tight hips then systems that concentrate on high kicks will not be as productive as a method that works more on hands, low kicks, etc etc. Styles that ignore groin kicks for example can be very vulnerable to those that make use of them, but an instructor from any system tyhat makes use of groin kicks will be teaching the relevant skill.
Styles are secondary to the teacher.
Harry Cook

[Geoff]

Bob van Tuyn wrote: "Conditioning, fighting spirit etc. Are in my opinion the things that nobody can teach you… You yourself should have the drive to improve mentally and fiscally. Teacher can’t teach this."

Well, that's your opinion, but if you think you cannot be taught proper conditioning techniques and trained by competent coaches/teachers to improve conditiong you are wrong. The role of boxing trainers is to teach and guide the conditioning of fighters as much to train their technique. Supplementary exercises in MA (taught by competent instructors) serve the same purpose. The conditing drills of Goju-ryu are just one example.

Fighting spirit is taught, maybe cultured or cultivated, by good teachers, too. Shugyo without guidance is mere masochism. Shugyo with guidance can build the fighter's confidence and spirit. Good teachers build spirit more than they build technique.

In fact, instruction in technique is one of the least jobs of the good trainer/teacher. Anyone can learn the mechanics of punching and kicking through video, text and imitation. Bob wrote, "The things other people can teach you are techniques and ideas on fighting." Sure, that's true - anyone can teach you how to jump kick just check out the local TKD school. A real teacher builds on that foundation through instruction in conditioning and fighting spirit.

I can't remember the source of this quote, but it has always made sense to me: "One measure of spirit equals ten of strength, one measure of strength equals of ten techinque." Teaching technique is just the beginning of the teacher's job.

[Bob van Tuyn]

I don’t want to stray of topic to much, but still I can’t see that style does not matter. Every body knows that most MA have different point of focus in their teaching. From styles purely for self-defence and taking someone out (krav maga) to styles where the focus is on competition (kickboxing, boxing etc) kicks and jabs and punches. Will a kickboxer fight differently from a Judoka…… YES. A kickboxer wil kick/punch you in the face and a judoka will try to get you in a submission hold or break a limb.

Mister harry cook wrote: ‘The style matters only if the teacher's approach suits you and your own strengths and weaknesses.’ But I don’t think that a teacher in a boxing gym would teach you chokeholds and throws if your body is better build for that. Because you are in a boxing gym and they teach you to fight with your arms. So I don’t see how style does not matter, the style influence greatly what kind of fighter you’ll be. When you look at Mixed martial arts you see that boxers don’t prefer to take the fight to the ground. In contrary to wrestlers who want to take you to the ground as quick as possible… What’s the deferent’s between these people….. The style that they have been trained in!

So if someone asks me what style or MA should I study I say have a look what style appeals to you and find a good school in that style.

[Timothy.G.B.]

I think the issue of style versus teacher is an "unresolvable" (if that's a word) argument in a forum and that is what great forum threads run on.

The "resolvable" arguments don't reappear in any forum :)

I think that ultimately the teacher is what matters, not because of who they are or what style they are teaching but because of what they know. Having said that, if the teacher is the best in the world in a particular style that includes poor techniques, misinterpretations of kata and unsound fighting theory, then the teacher doesn't matter a hoot...if you want to learn proper technique, correct interpretations of kata and sound fighting theory.

Most people have never seen a teacher who really knows what they are talking about regarding fighting, but those who have will know what I am talking about. No unanswered questions (and all answers making sense) is the only way I know if a teacher knows what they are talking about.

Ask any teacher what the opening move of the Shorin, Shotokan kata Passai (Sho or Dai, because they are related) is about and you will be able to judge. If the answer seems silly, dangerous, or ineffective to you, find someone who can answer it without it sounding silly or dangerous or ineffective.

I believe that there are right ways of doing things and ways that are either wrong or not the best way. I prefer to rely on the right way, not just a plausible way of doing things.

Best to all,
Tim Black
3rd Dan Shorinryu
Kokusai Shinjinbukan

[hedkikr]

d_w,

This thread got derailed a few days ago so I'll try to get it back on track.

If you've read anything on the net about Chito-ryu, you'll notice that it's an authentic style w/ legitimate lineage. I studied Chito-ryu in '78 but due to sensei's non-business approach to operating a dojo, it went under. I don't remember many of the details but I remember I enjoyed the training. While it's true that the instructor is important, the curriculum is equally important. Chito-ryu is a good strait-ahead style w/ no fluff.

Just curious...Is the school in Canada or USA? If USA, which state?

BTW (trivia) this was Elvis' first exposure to karate. He later gravitated to Parker Kempo (probably liked the fancy techniques to match his fancy costumes)

[jboler]

There is a Mr. Davenport here in Frankfort, KY (sorry, I forget his first name), who is quite proficient in this style. He looks to be very legit, as does the style. I once asked Patrick McCarthy about this person and style, and he had nothing but positive things to say.

[hedkikr]

...so you know/met Patrick McCarthy? I admire & respect his research & writings.

Hope that you enjoy your training.

Ed

[lady sai]

I'm train on chito ryu now. I think its great. we're a fighting school, we train with bo, chucks, tonfa, sai, kama, sword. lots of katas. See if you can visit a dojo in your area to see if you like it and check out the instructors. See who trained the instructor you will be working with.