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Rogier
15th June 2005, 22:01
Okay nearly had this situation this evening, I showed up and the only student there is the only female student in the group. About ten minutes before training starts another student walks in (male) and we start training. I didn't think twice about the situation during training.

On the trip back home it got me thinking; what if the other student didn't come? As I'm pretty naive and straightforward I would've taught her even though no one else was there.

There is however a risk there (as everyone can probably imagine), 1 male teacher & 1 female student no one else in the building.

What would you have done?

Trevor Johnson
15th June 2005, 22:08
Leave the door open, train outside in public, those are primary cautions. Depends on how junior she is, too. If she's pretty young and very junior, she may not have figured out that a training partner'd better be just a differently shaped piece of meat for beating on. If sex comes into it, the one into whose mind it comes loses. Had a grappling partner who liked to breathe heavily, it helped him relax. Tensed me up like piano wire, until I got used to it, realized that I had to work past it, and learned to relax.
If she's inexperienced, leave the throws out of it if it's a striking art. If you have atemi, now's a good time to practice. Or you can work on the basic arm locks and defenses against a wrist grab.
If she's more senior, you may find that counting her as a woman and worrying about sexual harassment gets you splattered all over the floor, since SHE may have learned to ignore it! That's a GOOD result!

Blackwood
15th June 2005, 22:13
I'm fortunate that I teach:

In a wide open environment

There are always others in the building.

My assistant instructor is both female and my daughter. No chance for collusion there!

You are right to be aware of the issue. Age/maturity is a huge factor.

PRehse
16th June 2005, 03:41
Let her drive the training. What do you want to work on? In any case it is the least you can do for the one that shows up.

She's an adult and can leave.

ichibyoshi
16th June 2005, 04:29
I'm a high school teacher, and in spite of the fact that all classrooms are built with windows, a male teacher should never be alone in a room with a female (or male) student. There must always be a third person present. I think the same would go for MA training. IMO if you only have one student turn up, male or female, and they are under-age, you should not train (and I dunno about other countries but training "outside" where I live would result in attention from the police). Don't of course say the real reason why you're cancelling training, just make up some rule that you need a "quorum" of at least two members to make training happen. The risks otherwise are too great for you, especially because your art involves close body contact (I teach kendo but I would still observe this rule).

The other thing that you might need to check is whether, with your underage students, you legal "Duty of Care" extends outside the dojo until your students get picked up by mum and dad after training (needless to say, you should NEVER give underage students a lift home without prior, WRITTEN parental consent). Many sensei think that what happens outside the dojo is not their concern, but it may be otherwise.

All instructors need to know how the laws of their region affect their training.

b

Harlan
16th June 2005, 16:03
...entirely on the maturity of the people involved. I (female) train alone with my teacher (male). Of course, it is weapons, not grappling...which is easier.

Daniel Kogan
16th June 2005, 22:43
As I read this thread I was surprised that most people seemed to approach this problem from the perspective of “what if something was to happen between the student and teacher?” I found that an odd problem to have. I would have thought that the concern centered on what if an unfounded allegations were to be made, rather than what if something happened.

If something happened, shame on you; male, female, student, teacher shouldn’t matter.

In my dojo, training is often 1:1, it is the best quality time to really learn. If you get distracted and your mind shifts out of training and into extra curricular activities then there are issues you need to deal with that go beyond martial arts.

On the other hand, if you are concerned that somebody may make unfounded allegation about your conduct, I guess that is a function of how you pick your students. If you have a public dojo (community center) and have no say as to who you teach, then probably canceling class is not such a big deal for either you or your student -and caution is the better bart of valor. But if you have a private dojo, and a strong sensei – deshi relationship, most students crave for those rare days you get all of sensei’s time and attention, I know I did as a student and I know I teach more when I have 1:1 time with a student, male or female, there are all students. The one’s that show up when the others don’t get more and deserve more.

My 2 cents.

Wounded Ronin
16th June 2005, 23:39
...entirely on the maturity of the people involved. I (female) train alone with my teacher (male). Of course, it is weapons, not grappling...which is easier.

Actually, it probably makes a huge difference whether or not you're a minor.

urbalte
17th June 2005, 03:50
Let her drive the training. What do you want to work on? In any case it is the least you can do for the one that shows up.

She's an adult and can leave.

I have to agree. Also with Daniel. Age/sex should not matter. Maturity only. Based on what you as the sensei think of the individual's maturity level, will reflect in what you decide to teach. If you're teaching and you find this to be a problem that you're instructing only one female, then maybe you should reflect on why you're teaching, and which part of your anatomy is doing the thinking for you. Honestly, if you got your head on right then the training in one-on-one sessions (regardless of sex) should be the sensei helping the student with their particular weak areas. I recently had this situation in my dojo where I was the only student to show up one night. So, my sensei asked me where I thought I was weak/and he then told me where he also thought I was weak, and we used that night to correct my defficiencies.
Now, yes I do realize that we live in a time that everyoen is up in arms and cautious about this, that, and the other. However, if there's nothing there for a rumor to be built, then no rumors will be. If there's nothing going on that can cause problems, then don't worry about it. Now, I understand that this thread was created as a "What if" type thread. But, it's really not necessary.
To quote some of my old coaches from back in high school:
"Quit lookin' at the damn cheerleaders and get your head back inthe game!"

ichibyoshi
17th June 2005, 05:15
Age/sex should not matter. But it does. I am specifically talking about teaching minors.

It doesn't matter that you have the most scruples and an umblemished record. This issue is about maintaining the APPEARANCE of propriety, as well as the fact of it. You should never place yourself in a situation when it could even be suggested that you were guilty of improper conduct. Allegations, however unfounded, can ruin a career. The court of public opinion places the burden of proof on the defendant in these cases, IOW, you're guilty until proven innocent, and even then you're probably still guilty.

This is a situation where people need to learn from the experience of others, because if you have to wait to learn from your own experience then it is already too late.

b

Rogier
17th June 2005, 07:12
I found that an odd problem to have. I would have thought that the concern centered on what if an unfounded allegations were to be made, rather than what if something happened.

Sorry for not making my statement unclear, but that is exactly what I meant. That's what came to mind on the drive home. What if unfounded allogations come up.

I think I'm mature enough (and enough in love with my wife) to not let anything happen.



If something happened, shame on you; male, female, student, teacher shouldn’t matter.

completely agree.



On the other hand, if you are concerned that somebody may make unfounded allegation about your conduct, I guess that is a function of how you pick your students. If you have a public dojo (community center) and have no say as to who you teach, then probably canceling class is not such a big deal for either you or your student -and caution is the better bart of valor.

As I said, this didn't even come to mind in the dojo. I probably would just teach one on one, but have heard of the problems that might arise from these situations. I guess I'll have to take this up with my own teacher and see what his position is on this topic (it is his school after all)

Dare Devil
18th June 2005, 01:33
I have only taught in a college club and have thus only had to deal with college age people (myself, I'm 23). Mostly I would just treat it like any other day in class where only one person showed up and say "well, what do you want to do today, cause my whole lesson plan built around lots of people just got shot to !!!!" (yes, I am testing the language filter).

This has only happened a handful of tmes as first it would have to be one of the days coach called me and said he'd either be late or not there at all, and then, well, then only one person would have to show up and it would have to be a woman, but it has happened. In each case it depended upon how confident the student was- the nervous "I don't wanna hit anybody" girls that signed up for the class expecting kick boxaerobics would say "oh just what ever", so I would drill them for a while and then coax them into some extremely light sparring to get them used to a little violence. The women who are there to train however know exactly what they want to do, take it often times more seriously than the eaverage joe, and would be rather insulted if I treated individual training with them any different than I would with the guys we send off to cage fight (well, except for the part where naturally I hit the cage fighters a lot harder).

I suppose there's more to take into consideration with a big age gap, but between mature adults I really can't- well, no I can see the issue I just think it's something anybody in a position as teacher should already know how to handle.

Sorry if this seems a little flippant, I just don't think it's that difficult.

Chris O'Connor IV
Basically a eunich.

mews
19th June 2005, 23:25
I know that if I, as an adult training in my art, showed up for class and was the only one there, I was happyhappyhappy!

Weee!

Private lessons!
at no extra charge!!
Yay!!!

too bad for the lazy folks who didn't show...

And I would have been EXTREMELY p-o'd if my teacher had cancelled the class because I was a female-type person.

I have taught classes with one person, and I have been one student on the floor - if a student shows up, they get taught.

for classes with minors - well, have an assistant around anyway, if that is a worry to you.

mews

Harlan
20th June 2005, 01:22
EXACTLY! "Happy, happy, happy!"



I know that if I, as an adult training in my art, showed up for class and was the only one there, I was happyhappyhappy!

Weee!

Private lessons!
at no extra charge!!
Yay!!!

too bad for the lazy folks who didn't show...

gmanry
20th June 2005, 12:32
This is an important topic. Recently in a toned down kickboxing class I was teaching, I would have a few nights when only one female student would arrive. I always gave them the choice of staying and what they wanted to focus on. It is a fairly public gym, so my back was pretty well covered.

Once the workout was on, they just worked, and I coached.

With the low cost of webcams and such, it is easy to rig up a dojo cam to protect yourself and to give valuable feedback to students. You can even do it with an old second hand laptop. It can also be useful for allowing parents to see bad behavior of children, good behavior, etc. I myself have not done this, but I have thought about it for the day when I might have a more coherent dojo. The best part is that the entire rig can be portable for non-permanent spaces.

ichibyoshi
22nd June 2005, 01:19
... if that is a worry to you...

mews

My point is it should be a worry to ALL instructors. This is not about "I feel a bit weird teaching kids one-to-one", this is part of an instructor's professional practice.

The web-cam is a great idea. Many parents would have issues, and quite rightly, with having video of their kids available on the net. However I suppose it could be on a password protected page.

b

gmanry
23rd June 2005, 22:38
It doesn't need to be posted to the web. You can just store video on your harddrive, even cut it to a frame every five seconds to keep the size smaller. If students and parents know you are recording classes it will put them at ease and cut down on any potentially fraudulent claims, because they do happen, as do legitimate ones.

You could do it on a server, though that would incur a lot more cost and would necessitate some existing permanent hardware onsite.

MarkF
25th June 2005, 11:26
OK, here is another situation. You are the senior student in a class of many, thirty or more. A female student ends up the "odd man out" and you play randori with her. She makes advances on you, and not only for the obvious reason. She has another agenda which invovles you, but it has nothing to do with what seems to be happening.

You are not at fault, but sensei is, he can possibly lose his dojo, or more than one, because an issue has arisen, or worse.

I won't go into detail, but it happened to me in the early 1970s. After class, I had a few words with her, and it ended there, but what if it hadn't?


Mark

Trevor Johnson
25th June 2005, 22:37
OK, here is another situation. You are the senior student in a class of many, thirty or more. A female student ends up the "odd man out" and you play randori with her. She makes advances on you, and not only for the obvious reason. She has another agenda which invovles you, but it has nothing to do with what seems to be happening.

You are not at fault, but sensei is, he can possibly lose his dojo, or more than one, because an issue has arisen, or worse.

I won't go into detail, but it happened to me in the early 1970s. After class, I had a few words with her, and it ended there, but what if it hadn't?


Mark

Lemme guess, sleeping with sempai gets me "a-head?" :D
One way to deal with it would be to mention it to sensei, and then let her play with women for a while. Another is to really splatter her all over when she makes advances, as negative reinforcement. If there's sexual tension, as long as you stay loose and relaxed, and she's the one tensing, you've got a tactical advantage. You can inform her (as one of my sempai did when I tensed up as he got a mount on me and started heavy breathing to keep himself relaxed) that she's going to continue to get squished until she learns to relax properly, and keep up the pressure until she's exhausted.

mews
26th June 2005, 01:48
well, as pointed out, someone coming on to you on the floor isn't paying good attention to what should be/ is happening.

also -

1) rotate partners a lot.
2) As you did, have a talk off the floor with the person.
3) grappling art? forget to wash your gi :)

I have seen more senior men than women do the "come ons to the junior" bit, while junior women seem to want to hunt the sempai/sensei.

not pretty, either way.

oh, back to minors - there should be parents / caregivers around. You are not a babysitting service, and they shouldn't be dropping off snookums and running off elsewhere.

If older teens are coming by themselves, then parents / caregivers of younger ones should be there. [that ignores the 'only student' part specified before, I know.]

I like the webcam idea, if practical.

mew

MikeWilliams
28th June 2005, 19:46
Why this (http://www.roxburytaichiacademy.com/video/Kenetic%20bb.wmv) of course.

Trevor Johnson
28th June 2005, 21:05
Using mystical forces to get chicks? Isn't that, ummm, well, overkill? Besides, if I were going to do that, I'd use voodoun. At least that way they wouldn't talk back when they realized I was a complete and utter martial fraud!

Nyuck3X
2nd July 2005, 17:25
I teach a young lady privately.
At first I only me her in open parks where we were in plain view.
As the weather got colder, I invited her to my house but made
sure my wife was around. I don't do any close quarters work when
we are alone or out of site. Only kata.

The camera thing is a good idea for the private studio. Keeping one
around for just that occasion and running it the entire time until they are
picked up is a good option. (Provided you never leave frame.)
You should also probably get the parent agreeing to leave the kid
with you on tape too.

Here where I live, even the community sports programs are not
alowed to teach without one adult present. If only one child shows
up, the parent is asked to stay until another kid shows up. Otherwise
practice gets cancelled.

Peace.

Dark Kendoka
12th July 2005, 05:36
I never really thought about all of the complications that could occur if you were with a sole female or child student. But I could see it happen as there are some dishonest women/parents that do things just because they don't like the guy or want a good laugh.

I would say though that if the female was an adult, I would go on ahead and train her. I am the sensei, and she would be the student. We can be great friends, but I wouldn't want anything beyond that.

But if there was a child present, I probably would go on ahead and train the student but I would probably ask the parent if it is okay. There are too many issues dealing with this on TV and you don't want to be involved with that kind of stuff if you are innocent.

Amir
13th July 2005, 12:52
Here where I live, even the community sports programs are not
alowed to teach without one adult present. If only one child shows
up, the parent is asked to stay until another kid shows up. Otherwise
practice gets cancelled.



As far as I know, in the environment I live at, the atmosphere is much more relaxed, people still trust the teachers and are not afraid of leaving one alone with a child. I hope this atmosphere remain un-changed, and with no reasons to.


Amir

ichibyoshi
20th July 2005, 04:21
In my home state of Victoria, Australia, the government has just brought in a new ID card system (http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/670000-face-police-checks/2005/07/19/1121538973738.html?oneclick=true) for anyone who has regular, unsupervised contact with minors that are not their own children. So all sports coaches, scout leaders, church youth group helpers, etc. The gov't has proposed to pay the costs involved in getting a national police records check done, and then issuing photo ID for that person.

As a school teacher I am already subject to this records check, so am exempt from hacing to apply for a card.

Just thought I'd pop this in because it shows what the climate is like out there. Dunno if my state is more draconian than elsewhere: this is just the way it is. Most people BTW seem to be accepting of this requirement (including me). OTOH it's a very sensitive area to be seen to be disagreeing!

b

bhoutros
23rd July 2005, 18:31
OK, here is another situation. You are the senior student in a class of many, thirty or more. A female student ends up the "odd man out" and you play randori with her. She makes advances on you, and not only for the obvious reason. She has another agenda which invovles you, but it has nothing to do with what seems to be happening.

You are not at fault, but sensei is, he can possibly lose his dojo, or more than one, because an issue has arisen, or worse.

I won't go into detail, but it happened to me in the early 1970s. After class, I had a few words with her, and it ended there, but what if it hadn't?


Mark

That seems like the appropriate way to handle it. It seems to me that alot of misunderstanding in the dojo can be easily cleared up by the person running the club. That kind of tension can be hard on everyone if the person/people in charge don't make it clear that everyone there is there for a good hard workout. Period. Then you go home and have your life outside of the club.
I am friends with most/all the guys in my club. But I know that bringing that element of discomfort into my workout would really mess up my training. That doesn't mean that people aren't human but from my perspective, sleeping with/trying to sleep with my training partners would make my workouts awkward. It's hard to concentrate on technique if there is that kind of tension there. And it is really impolite to the person who you are training with. That doesn't mean that people don't become attracted to each other. But keeping it out of the dojo is a simple respect that you pay to all the people that you train with.

ZachZinn
25th July 2005, 18:55
In my home state of Victoria, Australia, the government has just brought in a new ID card system (http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/670000-face-police-checks/2005/07/19/1121538973738.html?oneclick=true) for anyone who has regular, unsupervised contact with minors that are not their own children. So all sports coaches, scout leaders, church youth group helpers, etc. The gov't has proposed to pay the costs involved in getting a national police records check done, and then issuing photo ID for that person.

As a school teacher I am already subject to this records check, so am exempt from hacing to apply for a card.

Just thought I'd pop this in because it shows what the climate is like out there. Dunno if my state is more draconian than elsewhere: this is just the way it is. Most people BTW seem to be accepting of this requirement (including me). OTOH it's a very sensitive area to be seen to be disagreeing!

b



Wow that's even worse than the U.S. hysteria...that's ridiculous quite frankly.
I would understand it if not for the fact that it flies in the face of all evidence as to how child molestation actually happens. I cant imagine the terrible effect it would have long term....do people not care at all about communities anymore? How sad. I guess it's not okay to want to spend time with kids in any way unless theyre your own, I find this kind of legislation disgusting. Also, I would like to point out that the answer to this question might be different if you make a living off of teaching.

bhoutros
25th July 2005, 21:20
Wow that's even worse than the U.S. hysteria...that's ridiculous quite frankly.
I would understand it if not for the fact that it flies in the face of all evidence as to how child molestation actually happens. I cant imagine the terrible effect it would have long term....do people not care at all about communities anymore? How sad. I guess it's not okay to want to spend time with kids in any way unless theyre your own, I find this kind of legislation disgusting. Also, I would like to point out that the answer to this question might be different if you make a living off of teaching.

I disagree. I don't think it is a bad thing at all. The poster wasn't saying that people weren't allowed interaction with children. He/She was saying that the government kept a record on people who interact with children as a matter of course and made sure that they didn't have a history of sexually abusing children. I don't see it as draconian at all. I see it as a pretty smart way of stopping a possible problem.

ZachZinn
26th July 2005, 06:59
I disagree. I don't think it is a bad thing at all. The poster wasn't saying that people weren't allowed interaction with children. He/She was saying that the government kept a record on people who interact with children as a matter of course and made sure that they didn't have a history of sexually abusing children. I don't see it as draconian at all. I see it as a pretty smart way of stopping a possible problem.

And you think it won't have a chilling effect on people who coach sports; teach martial arts, etc.? Dream on. Do you not see how this kind of thing gets misused? Well good luck, I suppose only time will tell what sort of effect it has....if similar programs in the US are any indicator (tracking sex offenders etc) what you will have on your hands is even more hysteria and accusation and no substantial moves towards lessening the amount of abused/molested children. Anyway sorry to take the thread off topic i'll stop now.

Trevor Johnson
26th July 2005, 07:09
It does provide some safety. My only worry is the people who get complacent because the government is protecting them and lose sight that they are ultimately responsible for their child's safety.
One of the things that makes the current hysteria worse is the whole amber law thing. Not saying it's a bad thing, just that the media see every case as a potential ratings war and a tear-jerker, and hysteria pays for them.

As far as the dojo goes, however, the sensei should be above reproach. Which means that training with adult female students is fine, as long as it doesn't go beyond training, but training with children should be done with some witnesses. It doesn't matter if one child's parent stays as witness, or if you tape things, there should be a witness. It's too easy to get accused, and if accused, you're convicted in the court of public opinion. Even if you're innocent, moving may be your only option.

Mr_Bozz
28th July 2005, 19:55
Skipping ahead... I had a thought to share and didn't want to read everything, BUT...

Were I in that situation, I would have pulled out the old camcorder and recorded the class. We often do that currently for the purposes of reviewing our skills and fine-tuning things such as footwork, etc.

From that point on, I would consider having class just normally like I would with anyone else. Door are always open, but our new location will be upstairs in building that... no one would be able to see in from outside. But I think having a tape showing exactlly what went on will suffice should the need to "defend" my behaviour ever be called out.

Instructors should NEVER... EVER explore a relationship beyond normal average friendship outside of the dojo. I think when a "relationship" begins to blossem, you're only asking for trouble. I've never heard of a situation like that working out very well. I'm sure there are exceptions, but they would be just that: Exceptions.

Etherman
11th August 2005, 02:32
I don't see where the student's sex would even matter. A male student could also lodge a false allegation.

Nanami
14th August 2005, 04:11
Interesting topic.
I never even thought of the situation from that angle.
There aren't too many female students participating in MA so I am accustomed to be the only female in dojo.
To be honest, when I change into dojo-gi sex is the last thing in my mind.
Of course sometimes I am forced to remember that I'm a "girl", when working with someone who out-muscle me, or when some wazas are physically impossible to learn.
But then, it's more like me admitting what I can do with my body type and search for another way to better myself (though frustrating)...

My first teacher was my uncle who taught me that "when you put on dojo-gi you put away your regular clothes with what you are outside of dojo - no matter if you are a boy or girl, you are just here to train."
His words were inprinted in my brain so it never occured to me that "1-on-1 w/female" can lead to a sticky situation.

I guess I'm very fortunate with my senseis that I never experienced such "uneasiness" in numerous 1-on-1 sessions.
Thank you senseis, senpais & fellow students.

bassai
26th September 2005, 14:53
we make it a policy to never teach with only one instructor present and i generaly try to have a female assistant with me whenever possible to make female students a little more comfortable,especialy if an early teen has to ask a discreet question.
In the uk all instructors should have a crb check, and anyone teaching young children should be registered with the nspcc.

grunvei
4th October 2005, 00:01
i say you should've banged her right then.......just kidding :) anyways, can anybody like teach me somethin bout ninjutsu? I'm trying to study it, but I don't think the internet likes me...and I need somebody with experience...so, anybody? I'd like to go and apply for a dojo but I'm broke....every single day...
I just need some sort of program to get me going, cause I don't know where to start...tnx :D

Andrew S
5th October 2005, 11:09
anyways, can anybody like teach me somethin bout ninjutsu? I'm trying to study it, but I don't think the internet likes me...and I need somebody with experience...so, anybody? I'd like to go and apply for a dojo but I'm broke....every single day...
I just need some sort of program to get me going, cause I don't know where to start...tnx :D

Sounds like the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles might be a good place to start.

grunvei
5th October 2005, 22:28
damn, teenage mutant ninja turtles? gotta admit I love that show but I don't think it's a good idea to let a RAT teach you stuff....lol, specially a damn old enormous sewer rat with a cane....jk...but, for real, is there anybody who still knows ninjutsu? or is it really lost?

twayman
5th October 2005, 22:41
is there anybody who still knows ninjutsu? or is it really lost?

What...!!!??? Ask Frank Dux he's an expert..... :p

grunvei
5th October 2005, 22:48
frank dux? who that?

twayman
5th October 2005, 22:56
Never mind, don't seek that dude out... it was a joke.

Yes, the ninjutsu is still alive and well check here.

http://www.e-budo.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=5

Andrew S
5th October 2005, 23:08
Ask Frank Dux he's an expert.....

Todd, that was just brilliant... loved it!

Back to the thread, ideally the sensei should be above reproach... ideally. The reality is there has to be a certain level of trust.

I remember a female Aikido partner who was put off by the comment made by one of her more junior partners that he loved training because he got to "roll around on the floor with a couple of girls"

Again, choice of techniques to be practiced are important here - they need to match the level of trust between you. I could have practiced any technique with the afore-mentioned female because of the trust between us. A new girl would have been a different matter.

And I also agree that people should check in their relationships at the dojo door, pick them up again when they leave.

Just my thoughts
Yours,

Andrew

grunvei
5th October 2005, 23:08
sweet....tnx man

twayman
5th October 2005, 23:19
Again, choice of techniques to be practiced are important here - they need to match the level of trust between you. I could have practiced any technique with the afore-mentioned female because of the trust between us. A new girl would have been a different matter.

And I also agree that people should check in their relationships at the dojo door, pick them up again when they leave.


Could not agree more...

First the instructor has to lead my example not desire. Many times I have a single female student show and the last thing I, as an instructor, needs to do is turn the dojo in to a "circus of hormonal desire" if you will. Keep it real and on subject last thing a reputable instructor needs going around town is something like “don’t go to XYZ dojo he jumps his female students.” And if something does start... keep it out of the dojo you need to concentrate on the punch coming at your face not the itch in your drawers. :rolleyes:

dokko
10th October 2005, 00:17
I only work with one person when he/she want private class, in regular class I don’t teach one student. There have to be at least three of them. Also in private class I work both with males and females, but I never work with anyone under 18 years old. I never had any problem.

cherry
11th October 2005, 06:37
i am a female student, and i have turned up at training a few times to find no one there but my instructer, there has never been an issue he asks me what i would like to do, so we usually work on the syllabus for which ever grading i am going for, and then i start to train, :)

Nyuck3X
13th October 2005, 02:00
I'm a little surprised at the amount of trust that I'm finding on this thread.
It's refreshing but naive.

We're all students of self preservation,
whether it be physical, mental or financial.
If I teach a female student and keep it above board,
what's to stop her from accusing me of inappropriate behavior?
Example; there was a woman here in California that took a severed
finger and tried to sue the Wendy's food chain.

It's one thing to teach with the best intents, it's another to not
only lose a student, but to lose your school, financial stability and
your reputation. An accusation of child molesting or rape will
shut you down in a heartbeat. Not to mention the inability to
start a new school, now that we have the bad budo forum.

I'm just trying to be the devil's advocate here.
You can teach with all the best intentions, and yes, as teachers
we have an obligation to earn the trust our students entrust us
with, but you cannot trust everyone. Who's to say a new student
won't turn around and destroy your life.

I don't know about anyone else, but if my wife suspected me of fooling
around with a student, she'd pack the kids up and take half of everything
with her.

I've already been financially destroyed once by trusting my
employers to do the right thing. It sucks.
Better safe than sorry.

Peace.

twayman
13th October 2005, 16:25
Ray,

I can see what you are trying to get a cross.

IMHO… This reasoning falls short. Assuming a student has it in for you (for any reason) and attempts to destroy you/your school based on a sexual allegation or inappropriate behavior that was never witnessed by others. Frankly, all they have to do is allege inappropriate behavior and you/your school are harmed, whether the incident happened or not. Take it one step further. You and this individual were never alone (or never even trained together) and the allegations are still made; you have same result. Unfortunately this is life and any time we put ourselves out we risk incidents like these. It does make sense to try and minimize things happening but, we are never immune.

Instructors and students have to have trust… period… or we will all be running scared.

Just my thoughts…

P.S. That woman in California with Wendy's bit off more than she could chew, Wendy's filed suit against her and last I heard she is in prison on related and unrelated charges.

Nyuck3X
13th October 2005, 17:13
Quote by twayman:
Instructors and students have to have trust… period… or we will all be running scared.

Absolutely agreed. We need to regain and foster trust in society
again so that sueing becomes more of the exeption than the norm.

Side note...
Todd,
I was your town last weekend for a wedding.
Nice place except for the rising crime rate.
I especially liked Five Corners. (Lucas fan ya'know).
Struck me funny driving around on a Saturday night
listening to the Wolfman on the radio.

Peace.

twayman
13th October 2005, 17:30
Nice place except for the rising crime rate.


I know everyday (and I mean everyday) some violent crime going down... Seems MA is more of a necessity rather than a luxury. Still a fairly nice place, my neighborhood is still fairly safe although a few miles down the road… don’t go out after dark.

dokko
18th October 2005, 10:51
I don't get why it's all about females. I mean same male can accuse you for sexual harassment or something like that. I remember case in German (I believe not sure) in 80' when guy accuse his coach (they practiced basketball) for sexual harassment, he had two witnesses. Two years later one of witnesses admit that they all made up.
So we may same ask: Can you practice with three guys alone?

Nyuck3X
18th October 2005, 22:30
Antonio,
You are absolutely correct.
Therefore I suggest monitors. A small black & white
with a 2 or 4 way split so that all angles are covered.

Regardless of gender, whether it's sex, physical or verbal
abuse, the theme is the same, C.Y.A. (cover your a$$).
If someone is going to devise such an elaborate scheme
as to have fake eye witnesses, then the burdon is on you
to provide evidence otherwise.

Peace.

Martyn van Halm
28th December 2005, 17:27
The camera part is nice, except that a student could still claim to be molested in the dressing rooms. How are you going to defend against that?

Nyuck3X
28th December 2005, 23:29
If you are always in frame, then you can not be in the dressing room.