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Luisan
14th July 2005, 21:16
video clip:

http://www.tokitsu.com/es/presentation/las-disciplinas/jisei-budo/jisei-budo-dvd-extracts.html

John Connolly
19th July 2005, 23:50
This should go to Baffling or Bad Budo.

Awful.

My interpretation: 2 months of Tai Chi class and a book on Ba Gua.

Trevor Johnson
20th July 2005, 01:15
Hoppi skippi ryu!

Luisan
22nd July 2005, 12:29
This should go to Baffling or Bad Budo.

Awful.

My interpretation: 2 months of Tai Chi class and a book on Ba Gua.

your interpretation is quite far from being correct.
:)

That's a clip of juyi kata. Sensei Tokisu calls it "Dance of energy". He's showing some possible martial aplications.
Of course is not and is not pretending to be some form or trying to fix in none IMA school "tradition".

It's surprising how some ppl give such strong opinions that lightly in internet. At least one should have done a search on th subject (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=kenji+tokitsu&btnG=Google+Search) and read a couple of pages or two.


Another clip for Tokitsu's method this time about free sparring:
http://s35.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3S3KEXZ402ULO1ECCUKPGLYPG4

powerof0ne
25th July 2005, 02:44
This should be on baffling or bad budo...it's crap. Than again this is just my opinion but I watched the clips and still think it's crap. It doesn't look like it would work in a real fight againt someone trained in muay thai, bare knuckle/knockdown karate, boxing, etc. It definitely wouldn't work against a bjj player or a judo player..so why do it? Now it might work for someone taht is allready a skilled fighter in some other art(s) but wouldn't for someone that only trains in this style, enough said.

MarkF
25th July 2005, 20:37
Folks, this thread will remain here for the time being. For starters, the topic poster/thread starter apparently trains in this modern combative so at least have the courtesy to do a bit of a search and come up with some facts. Perceived "crap" is not always crap.

BTW: Keep it civil, I really do not want to moderate, I would rather participate.


Thank you (Mod hat off),


Mark

powerof0ne
25th July 2005, 20:39
Sorry for being so harsh but it just doesn't seem too legit to me.

Luisan
25th July 2005, 20:47
This should be on baffling or bad budo...it's crap. Than again this is just my opinion but I watched the clips and still think it's crap. It doesn't look like it would work in a real fight againt someone trained in muay thai, bare knuckle/knockdown karate, boxing, etc.

Well here in spain a good bunch of pratitioners come from kyokushin backround and some from kickbocing and other contact sports.
The thng WORKs and the fct that you thnk It doesn't just from watching some clips is just good news :)

powerof0ne
25th July 2005, 20:50
Perhaps you didn't understand what I was saying..I don't think this MA would work for someone without a decent background in a more effective MA. I really don't think someone could apply this in self defense if this was the only MA they ever did..definitely not in competition.
You telling me that you have some kyokushin practitioners and kickboxing practitioners that train in this just supports my theory.

Luisan
26th July 2005, 07:58
You telling me that you have some kyokushin practitioners and kickboxing practitioners that train in this just supports my theory.

I'm telling you we have some kyokushin practitioners and kickboxing practitioners that quitted form kyoku and kickboxing to train in this.

sean_stonehart
26th July 2005, 12:40
ACAMAC came from Spain too... :nono:

powerof0ne
26th July 2005, 20:37
I'm telling you we have some kyokushin practitioners and kickboxing practitioners that quitted form kyoku and kickboxing to train in this.

Hmm..if they quit doing there kyokushin and kickboxing training to study only this MA I'm in shock and don't know what to say. I don't really buy it but than again I could also tell you that I'm the master of my own MA and that I have students that quit there bjj, muay thai, mma, judo training to train under me without proof.
I'm done commenting on this, it's gotten out of hand and will just keep escalating and yes I have some part in it but to each is own.

Troll Basher
28th July 2005, 03:21
1) That's a clip of juyi kata. Sensei Tokisu calls it "Dance of energy". He's showing some possible martial aplications.
2) Of course is not and is not pretending to be some form or trying to fix in none IMA school "tradition".

1) No, it look’s more like he is trying to imitate a bagua practitioner….and doing a poor job of it.
2) Then what are they pretending to be?

I watched the mpegs here: http://s35.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=...LO1ECCUKPGLYPG4
That’s what you call sparring? I like the way you wear head gear but just give light taps. Looks more like “tippy-tap crap” with a Halloween mask on. I would suggest a different type of head gear if you do finally decide to make hard contact…those clear plastic parts snap like tooth picks if you hit them hard. I experimented with them and they don’t last.



I'm telling you we have some kyokushin practitioners and kickboxing practitioners that quitted form kyoku and kickboxing to train in this.

Yeah, I’ll bet. More like they couldn’t hack it in a real Kyokushin or kickboxing gym so they joined your group.

Troll Basher
28th July 2005, 03:27
The thng WORKs and the fct that you thnk It doesn't just from watching some clips is just good news :)

Well judging from the link that you posted of your people “sparring” :rolleyes: it’s pretty obvious it doesn’t work well. You obviously posted that link because you thought it is a good representation of what you do. I really want to say to those guys sparring "could you bend over any farther and make it easier for me to hit you in the face???" I don't think so!!!
I would say that “art” is about as “street effective” as Tae Bo

Luisan
28th July 2005, 22:01
Well judging from the link that you posted of your people “sparring” :rolleyes: it’s pretty obvious it doesn’t work well. You obviously posted that link because you thought it is a good representation of what you do. I really want to say to those guys sparring "could you bend over any farther and make it easier for me to hit you in the face???" I don't think so!!!
I would say that “art” is about as “street effective” as Tae Bo


sorry but your analysys is quite simple and lack the proper deep view.

Troll Basher
28th July 2005, 23:30
sorry but your analysys is quite simple and lack the proper deep view.


Then perhaps you can show a different mpeg where people are actually sparring.......

powerof0ne
29th July 2005, 04:07
sorry but your analysys is quite simple and lack the proper deep view.

Trollbasher, your analysis isn't good and this guy is right, enough said. Whatever he says is gold without offering any explanation or proof, duh!

Troll Basher
29th July 2005, 04:13
Trollbasher, your analysis isn't good and this guy is right, enough said. Whatever he says is gold without offering any explanation or proof, duh!

You’re right. How could I be so insolent and ask for anything that would lend corroboration to his statements. ;)

Luisan
29th July 2005, 08:20
You’re right. How could I be so insolent and ask for anything that would lend corroboration to his statements. ;)


My english it's quite broken but belive me, I can recognize a polite question when I first read it. Your weren't asking you were playing the wise guy. If you don't like ppl playing the wise guy with you should be doing the same.

The nature of certain comments (like the ones yo made,quite lightly BTW) require certain first hand information to be taken seriously. Information you should have obtain by your own. I think there's a group in Tokyo: (http://www.tokitsu.com/jp/decouvrir/?id=194&L=4). Any way I understand you... when I fisrt saw those guys practicing my first impresions were not lot different from yours. I practice with them now.

some points:
The aim of the practice is get a hit throught openings, voids in the opponents attention and intention. Is not based in exhanging blows or blow the opponents head at any cost. A blow delivered without the correspondant openening is not considered a quality blow. It's somehow like the old saying in kendo regarding the importance of hitting after you have won and not hitting to win. Obviously the most important part cannot be seen, it's "felt". Is that felling what provokes the void (suki) and make you do what are identified for the untrained outside observer as dumb and clumsy movements.
If you review some of the performances in the clip from the point of view of how this openings were created and-or perceived you will see that there's "some" quality on them. You won't see too much "wasted movements" and some performance are really good form the point of view of "enconomy of movement".

hyaku
31st July 2005, 22:45
Any way I understand you... when I fisrt saw those guys practicing my first impresions were not lot different from yours. I practice with them now.

Hello there. As you perhaps know I have had some interaction with a few of your people at a seminar. Also my interest is in the fact that Tokitsu Sensei has such an interest in Musashi.

So could I ask, Is this a mostly academic interest?

There are certain fundamentals that seem to be evident in Musashi's theory that I can't see here. For example I was quite surprised to see such a very light contact with the ground. In actual fact power seemed to be devoid of the ground. Generally Japanese arts such as Sumo draw strength from a firm base. It's call kahanshin. Other people from other countries including some other Asian countries use a lot of Johanshin (upper body power only).

Richmond McClue
1st August 2005, 00:05
I can't profess to have any personal knowledge of Tokitsu Sensei, simply what I have gleaned from reading his book, Miyamoto Musashi - His Life and Writings . In addition, he is a good friend of a good friend of mine from Paris, whose judgement is generally pretty good.

Tokitsu Sensei has academic credentials which include a Ph.D in Sociology from the University of Paris. I thought his work in the Musashi book showed that background. While I did not think it was the masterwork on Budo, I did think it was pretty solidly researched and written. While I do not practice Musashi's tradition, as Colin-san does, I did think that the book presented a good overall picture of Musashi's life and philosophy. In addition, I think it is a good background resource regarding the transition between old and new arts, as well as Budo in general. All in all, I consider it a serious work.

With regard to any other knowledge I have regarding Tokitsu Sensei, it is all second-hand.

I have heard of him through a good friend who is French and trains with him. My recollection is that he was a fairly senior Shotokan practitioner who developed his theories and current art through studying what he considered the Chinese roots of Japanese empty hand arts. My friend, Jean, is Shotokan 6th Dan and Shito Ryu 5th Dan, and is someone who I admire a great deal, even beyond the fact that he is my sempai. The fact that he trains with Tokitsu Sensei and regards him as a close friend leads me, based on what I know, to think that Tokitsu Sensei is not a crank or poseur.

I received a copy of his DVD from Jean and can't say I really grasp it - partly because I don't understand the theory behind much of what is shown. Also, it is in French which I, as a simple country lawyer educated at a midwestern university, do not speak.

Troll Basher
1st August 2005, 00:31
I contacted these people in Japan. Seems they want money just to come over and watch……you are not allowed to try it…..you have to pay (about US$25) and all you get to do is WATCH. I asked since I had trained and sparred before would it be possible for me to come over and start sparring from the first class.
The answer was a definite “NO”…. you are not allowed to spar until the higher levels (read: until you have paid lot’s of money and been brainwashed into thinking it works).
Their monthly tuition fees are about $50 higher than other dojo and you only train about 4 times a month.
What a bunch of crap.
I asked a few more questions about the style and teacher and got answers from some over excited zealot. Sounded more like the sales pitch cults give rather than an MA group.

Luisan
1st August 2005, 11:30
I contacted these people in Japan. Seems they want money just to come over and watch……you are not allowed to try it…..you have to pay (about US$25) and all you get to do is WATCH. I asked since I had trained and sparred before would it be possible for me to come over and start sparring from the first class.
The answer was a definite “NO”…. you are not allowed to spar until the higher levels (read: until you have paid lot’s of money and been brainwashed into thinking it works).
Their monthly tuition fees are about $50 higher than other dojo and you only train about 4 times a month.
What a bunch of crap.
I asked a few more questions about the style and teacher and got answers from some over excited zealot. Sounded more like the sales pitch cults give rather than an MA group.

Who did you contacted?
may be you talked to the wrong person.

Luisan
1st August 2005, 11:40
There are certain fundamentals that seem to be evident in Musashi's theory that I can't see here. For example I was quite surprised to see such a very light contact with the ground. In actual fact power seemed to be devoid of the ground. Generally Japanese arts such as Sumo draw strength from a firm base. It's call kahanshin. Other people from other countries including some other Asian countries use a lot of Johanshin (upper body power only).


he uses the principle of unsoku. That more or lees means "free the weight of the legs" is like a continuos "falling" form one deplacement to another. (i openend a topic on this looking for somekenjutsu practitioners insight). That's the way of getting fast unsoku even at old age. I think it's a principle that it's present in some schools of kenjutsu and that he studied with Testuzan Kuroda sensei. Power comes form the coordination of the body gesture with the "falling". It seems poweless but belive it's not. Sorry but I'm far to be well versed on this kind of deplacement and you can't take my words as technical comments but as general impresions.

Troll Basher
1st August 2005, 12:57
Who did you contacted?
may be you talked to the wrong person.

He was the right person.

MikeWilliams
1st August 2005, 13:53
he uses the principle of unsoku. That more or lees means "free the weight of the legs" is like a continuos "falling" form one deplacement to another.

The thing that struck me about the first clip (the second clip is not working, btw), as the dangerously bad footwork.

"Continuous falling" is definitely the right expression for what would happen if you tried that against a judo player.

:)

Luisan
1st August 2005, 14:09
He was the right person.
May be you weren't.

PM the name. Ant let's see what can I do for you. You got a name don't you?

Troll Basher
1st August 2005, 14:11
May be you weren't.

PM the name. Ant let's see what can I do for you. You got a name don't you?

That's OK. I might "pop in" for an unexpected visit to one of their dojo and see if they want to "play". Or likewise if any of them want to hook up at my place my dojo contact info is on my webpage.

Luisan
1st August 2005, 15:26
That's OK. I might "pop in" for an unexpected visit to one of their dojo and see if they want to "play". Or likewise if any of them want to hook up at my place my dojo contact info is on my webpage.


You definitely lack the proper actitude and manners.

Do you think I use going settling up "encounters" for third parties?
Do whatever you want but don't put my name in the line. I was giving you the chance to made contact by yourserlf just in case you were interested and wanted to support your words... and you start acting like some of thise 70's bad kunfu movies. Is that the way you use to do such things? I suppose you don't really know how things have tho be done cause trying to enroll the classes it's quite dumb thing to do for someone who's cuirous about a neibourgh school.

hyaku
1st August 2005, 20:46
Liuzan I would not want get into a disagreement with you. But pay before you come it not something I have ever come across before in Japan. We usually allow someone into the dojo to watch or participate a little.

I may be wrong but in nearly forty years of budo that actually started with Tani Ha Shito Ryu, never have I seen anything that frees the weight of the legs with exception to them leaving the ground as someone falls on his backside. Kahanshin is inexorabley linked with not only Budo but Japanese people in general. Japanese people even walk with kahanshin. They are "ground people". They even drag their feet. Watch kabuki to get an idea. Light but hovering. To walk with hara. To step but not step. Where the foot is extended but bodyweight still lies central as with need the hara and tandan to initiate power. Even in some Chinese arts we see feet tentatively extended but weight stays back. In in WMA in Fiore we see mention of a strong foundation little the footings of a castle. Most of all in musashi when he taks of, 'The body of a massive rock'. "When you have mastered the way of strategy, you can suddenly make your body like a rock, and ten thousand things cannot touch you. You will not be moved".

Before I came to Japan I walked with a bit of a bounce. You can quickly spot a foreign person from the back among hundreds of people bouncing along. But after a while here and lots of training I quickly lost it.

Maybe living in the West has Mr Tokitsu heading the other way? One more thing I wanted to ask about the video was the long periods of standing in the woods, or should I say "not standing", as I could see a slight swaying movement.

Don't flame me! All in the interests of understanding Budo. Like others including Troll basher who has considerable experience of in Budo in Japan we are curious.

Luisan
1st August 2005, 21:27
"Liuzan I would not want get into a disagreement with you. But pay before you come it not something I have ever come across before in Japan. We usually allow someone into the dojo to watch or participate a little"

sorry hyaku but I give him no credit. He's been trolling so strongly in this thread. No fact until it's proven.

Movent is related to an objetive. No one has to meve in certain way just for being japanese. Sensei Tokitsu moves quite different now from the way he did it 10 years ago. He's still japanese living in France.

For knowing about sensei Toktisu's concept of deplaceament iI suggest you read:
http://www.tokitsu.com/fr/presentation/articles/fr/etude-de-la-logique-du-corps.html

It's a five part article. I think you'll find some anwers there

Those text are only avaible in french language. I'll recommend you using a online translator like worldlingo in case you couldn't read french.

"Don't flame me! All in the interests of understanding Budo. Like others including Troll basher who has considerable experience of in Budo in Japan we are curious."
I'm flaming no one... but there's a polite way of questioning or-and asking and a way that is not. It's as simple as that. I don't care how much experience he might have... what he don't have is an once of good manners and class.

hyaku
1st August 2005, 23:51
Yes I read the text. It mentions what I have just said about deeply rooted tradition. The thing is if you are too bottom heavy you do lose power from the hara. Likewise you lose if you are top heavy. It first came home to me after ten kendo practices a week for a few years. The only way I could stop tiring and without tension was to "cut with the feet". It can take very litle physical effort to use a weapon. Let go of it and it will drop to the floor faster than you can move. I dont think the Japanese have anything too unique. They are just a lot of Isaac Newton's. We are stuch to this earth so we use its properties. None of us are going to sprout wings.

This is why Musashi advocated a natural way of walking. He did "body shifting" too.

It also the tradition that people come to Japan to find out about and practice hard for some years. Reading the rest it all seems to relate to a "new concept". Fine for some if you like that kind of thing. But I decided to make something up there would have been little point in coming to Japan.

The thing is its understandable some of us get a bit miffed when someone tells us that all that time, hard work and practice was all a waste of time and that some new concept is the way to go.

I had some of his students to teach for four days. There was so much hard tension I snapped one guys bokuto. The power was there make no mistake. But it was not in the tanden. This is one of the reasons I had asked as I wondered how they had arrived at this concept.

I do wish they would have asked me before they put up my review of his book on their home page. It already "had" a copyright.

Troll Basher
2nd August 2005, 03:56
You definitely lack the proper actitude and manners.


And there it is folks…..as always when someone or some style on these threads is found to be less than what they claim or discrepancies are found that their spokesman cries “foul” and claims the other person is being “rude”.

The fact remains that the person I talked with on the phone wanted money to come and watch. GIANT RED FLAG there!
To come and try a lesson I can see that…..but to just watch…..there is something suspiciously strange about that. I have never heard of a dojo in Japan, China or the US that asked you to pay just to watch.
However, I have heard of religious cults that operate in the same way…..Aum Shinrikyu….

“Maybe you were talking to the wrong person”
Nope, sure didn’t. I called 045-453-1122 which is the general number for the Asahi Culture Center in the Lumine Bldg where they have their classes on the 8th floor.
The Asahi Culture Center is like a YMCA of sorts here in Japan that runs all different kinds of classes ranging from piano, ballet, shamisen, etc… They coordinate the classes for whatever group according to the groups criteria.
The person I talked with said some “frog”…..er..um … I mean some French guy is the teacher.

So for 5 Jiseido classes lasting 90 minutes they want you to pay US$150.00.
That has to be one of the most expensive dojo fees I have seen anywhere.

I would like to see how many suckers...er..um...customers....I mean "students" they get to pay that much.

Troll Basher
2nd August 2005, 05:21
Here is an interesting tokitsu ryu technique. :rolleyes:

Luisan
2nd August 2005, 06:16
"
The person I talked with said some “frog”…..er..um … I mean some French guy is the teacher. "



oops

:)

that's probably sensei Stoll. Is te student assinting sensei Tokitsu in the clip. Tokyo people are lucky. He's a good representation on Tokitsu-ryu. :) I can't and I don't want to discuss his fees there in Tokyo. But still you're talking !!!!. Relax, take it easy. If you manage to get in contact with sensei Stoll I'm sure all this mess will be cleared out in a satisfactory way for both sides.


frog? you call the french frog?
tio eres un gilipollas.

Troll Basher
2nd August 2005, 06:26
"
1) I can't and I don't want to discuss his fees there in Tokyo. But still you're talking !!!!.
2) Relax, take it easy.

1) Really? Maybe you should call them and ask if you think I am talking ****
2) That’s just it…..I am relaxed.

ZachZinn
3rd August 2005, 16:04
All I have to say is someone's a dancin'....Dancin...DANCIN' machine!

Trevor Johnson
3rd August 2005, 18:08
All I have to say is someone's a dancin'....Dancin...DANCIN' machine!

One of my seniors used to say that without commitment and a lot of thought, karate's just bad dancin'.

Luisan
6th August 2005, 11:07
1) Really? Maybe you should call them and ask if you think I am talking ****
2) That’s just it…..I am relaxed.

Me? call them?
I thought you were to pay them a visit. As I said before.. I don't really want to get involved. It's your own bussiness, keyboardwarrior, and it's you who started talking !!!! with no action to support your words.

Print the whole thread and handle it to sensei Stoll I'm sure that will open some doors...

Troll Basher
6th August 2005, 12:50
1) Me? call them?
2) I thought you were to pay them a visit. As I said before.. I don't really want to get involved. It's your own bussiness, keyboardwarrior, and it's you who started talking !!!! with no action to support your words.

Print the whole thread and handle it to sensei Stoll I'm sure that will open some doors...

1) You were the one that questioned me about it and doubted what I said so I gave you an option.
2) I did pay them a visit. I was allowed to watch for 20 minutes, if I stayed longer they said I had to pay. I wasn’t allowed to speak with anyone since they were in the middle of training. Nor was I allowed to photograph their class…I asked. The Asahi Culture Center said it wasn’t allowed. I can understand that but I figured you being the way you are would want “proof” of some kind. Their training wasn’t that interesting, or impressive and looked just as bad as the mpegs.

As for being a ‘keyboardwarrior” well that’s your opinion. Maybe you can tell that to the guys I just sparred with tonight. If you are trying to insult me you will have to do much better than that.
However, I am curious as to why someone would start a thread with just this and no comments:


video clip:

http://www.tokitsu.com/es/presentation/las-disciplinas/jisei-budo/jisei-budo-dvd-extracts.html

Are we supposed to be in awe of this guy or something? I am most certainly not.

I have seen the mpeg, I have seen them train in person and wasn’t impressed with either…..I think this discussion is pretty much over at least for me it is.

Luisan
8th August 2005, 13:02
again print the thread and hand it to him.

When you were there watching him trainning did you tell him you have insulted him in public?

end of the thread for me too.


next itme try to support your insulting words with something solid, keyboard warriorr.

Troll Basher
8th August 2005, 13:30
again print the thread and hand it to him.

When you were there watching him trainning did you tell him you have insulted him in public?

end of the thread for me too.


next itme try to support your insulting words with something solid, keyboard warriorr.

What can I say other than you make me laugh........

Luisan
8th August 2005, 22:11
What can I say other than you make me laugh........
as we say over here: "quien rie el último rie mejor"

good luck

Troll Basher
8th August 2005, 22:52
video clip:

http://www.tokitsu.com/es/presentation/las-disciplinas/jisei-budo/jisei-budo-dvd-extracts.html


So why would you post this with no comment other than "video clip:"?

Luisan
9th August 2005, 05:44
So why would you post this with no comment other than "video clip:"?

what's wrong with that?

ZachZinn
9th August 2005, 06:27
what's wrong with that?

He's saying why would you post it other than to advertise it as 'impressive' on some level; and then pretty much saying that no one seems to find it particularly impressive, i'd have to agree. I don't claim to understand the principles of this art, but even with my 'intermediate' MA background I can honestly say this looks horrible to me, and using it in a real situation would get you pummeled, frankly. Maybe I just don't get how it's used or something but it seems to violate some pretty basic fighting principles.

Troll Basher
9th August 2005, 09:07
1) He's saying why would you post it other than to advertise it as 'impressive' on some level; and then pretty much saying that no one seems to find it particularly impressive, i'd have to agree. I don't claim to understand the principles of this art, but even with my 'intermediate' MA background I can honestly say this looks horrible to me, and using it in a real situation would get you pummeled, frankly.
2) Maybe I just don't get how it's used or something but it seems to violate some pretty basic fighting principles.

1) That’s pretty much on the money. However, I will add that I don’t have a problem with people posting links to mpegs but at least give an explanation as to “why” you are posting it or maybe some comment…….not just “video clip”.
2) You’re right. In the “sparring” practice I noticed poor hand positioning as well as sticking that chin waaaaaay out there……the punches were pretty sloppy as well.

Oh…And I personally have nothing against the “Frogs”…..I mean the French. In fact I think they are pretty darn considerate…….for example look at all those trees they planted in Paris so the German army could march in the shade. ;)

Luisan
9th August 2005, 10:03
1) That’s pretty much on the money. However, I will add that I don’t have a problem with people posting links to mpegs but at least give an explanation as to “why” you are posting it or maybe some comment…….not just “video clip”.
2) You’re right. In the “sparring” practice I noticed poor hand positioning as well as sticking that chin waaaaaay out there……the punches were pretty sloppy as well.

Oh…And I personally have nothing against the “Frogs”…..I mean the French. In fact I think they are pretty darn considerate…….for example look at all those trees they planted in Paris so the German army could march in the shade. ;)

well I didn't expect someone find it "impressive". I just wanted to post the link and see if someone knew sensei Tokitsu and his work.

About the 2 point our keyboardwarrior here made quit dumb observations in an insulting manner. Having the chance to get there and test it by himself all that he should be posting here is his first hand experience.

MarkF
9th August 2005, 12:04
"quien rie el último rie mejor"

"He who laughs last laughs better[best]?" We also have something like that.


BTW: There is nothing wrong with posting a link to a videp clip, but my first thought was that you were asking for comments on it. If you wanted to know if anyone knew him and/or his "work," you should have said so. I purposely left it in this forum instead of moving it to the Baffling Budo forum because I thought that is what you wanted. Comments. You got that. While some comments may have been a little rough it is not necessarily bad. Discussions can take on a 'strong' smell but this is nothing compared to what you may have received in the Baffling Budo forum especially as there was no question or comment accompaning your topic post.

But, more people will read the thread if I move it so let me know what you would like to do. Post it here or send me a Private message. You can find the private message form by clicking on my user name, or you can email me, though it may take me longer to respond.

If you do not want to do anything to the thread or wish it to stay here, say nothing and it will be left alone unless it gets out of hand.
**********

Watch your language (the filter doesn't catch everything) and do not attack another member. This goes for everyone.



Mark

Troll Basher
9th August 2005, 13:42
1) well I didn't expect someone find it "impressive". I just wanted to post the link and see if someone knew sensei Tokitsu and his work.

2) About the 2 point our keyboardwarrior here made quit dumb observations in an insulting manner. Having the chance to get there and test it by himself all that he should be posting here is his first hand experience.

1) I am still curious as to what we were all supposed to do once we watched it.
2) That’s like the 3rd or 4th time you have called me a “keyboard warrior”. I find it amusing since you know absolutely nothing about what I do, how I train, who I train with, how many times a week…….NOTHING.
And yet I have seen mpegs of your teacher, read his website, visited one of his schools.
There are some terms in Japanese that you should know.

Rokkan: This means to study your opponent to determine his basic physical factors. Observe his actions while walking, talking, drinking or doing any physical activity.

Kenkyu: To study your opponent's technique. That is, observe his actions to determine his skill level and the way in which he carries himself. If you can observe him actually using a technique, is there a weakness?
And lastly…….Know your enemy…..

So basically you don’t know jack squat about me or what I do but I learn more and more about your teacher and his style all the time

richard carlow
9th August 2005, 14:06
I realize the discussion has moved past this issue, but...

FWIW I have taught at the Asahi Culture Center (ACC) before and the administrative end of classes is entirely out of the hands of the instructor. Basically the fees to watch or take a trial lesson are set. I have never met a teacher who liked that particular policy.

I do not teach there now, but I do work at another culture center that has similar rules. Always looking for ways to get visitors into the classroom without them having to pay, but policy is policy even when it is counterproductive to increasing enrollment. These are not Budo classes, but the budo teachers there face the same rules. They are also asked to make what they teach accessible to people of all ages and physical abilities. Basically makes having a usual dojo there more difficult.

richard carlow

Troll Basher
9th August 2005, 15:05
I realize the discussion has moved past this issue, but...

FWIW I have taught at the Asahi Culture Center (ACC) before and the administrative end of classes is entirely out of the hands of the instructor. Basically the fees to watch or take a trial lesson are set. I have never met a teacher who liked that particular policy.

I do not teach there now, but I do work at another culture center that has similar rules. Always looking for ways to get visitors into the classroom without them having to pay, but policy is policy even when it is counterproductive to increasing enrollment. These are not Budo classes, but the budo teachers there face the same rules. They are also asked to make what they teach accessible to people of all ages and physical abilities. Basically makes having a usual dojo there more difficult.

richard carlow

Years ago I tired to have classes in the asahi culture center. They wanted to know what I was going to teach. They were sort of OK with everything until I said full contact sparring……they said I couldn’t do that because of possible injury.

Luisan
9th August 2005, 21:11
Years ago I tired to have classes in the asahi culture center. They wanted to know what I was going to teach. They were sort of OK with everything until I said full contact sparring……they said I couldn’t do that because of possible injury.

well knowing the way those centers work and knowing you knew it before posting all that !!!! gives the little credit to had away from you.

troll basher became just a troll

Troll Basher
9th August 2005, 21:59
well knowing the way those centers work and knowing you knew it before posting all that !!!! gives the little credit to had away from you.

troll basher became just a troll


how does that make me a troll?

Howard Thiery
9th August 2005, 22:44
this isn't a thread anymore its a P**ss*ng match
:rolleyes:

Troll Basher
10th August 2005, 03:36
this isn't a thread anymore its a P**ss*ng match
:rolleyes:

It never really was a "thread".

It was a link to an mpeg with no comment to go with it.
The point of posting the mpeg has never really been stated either.

I am wonder why you would post such a comment since you have not posted on this thread until now.

Howard Thiery
10th August 2005, 12:57
Mr. Rousselot,
You are right I have not posted and maybe I should not have. I have followed this thread from its start and was puzzled like you at its beginning. It had no expressed intent or purpose. It did however take on some vestiges of usefullness (almost thread like) when Hyakutake-san discussed the apparent lack of grounding in the techniques displayed. I posted when I did because from this readers view their was nothing going on that was ever going to be settled over a forum. It had degraded from something that at worst was lame and confusing to a personal pissing match. It is likely my two cents was not needed or appreciated because it had nothing to do with me (after all I "had not posted"). Forum however are for public intake and output and mine was stated. It was not meant as a slight on any party in this thread only on the thread's direction.
Cheers,
Howard

Troll Basher
10th August 2005, 13:41
Mr. Rousselot,
You are right I have not posted and maybe I should not have. I have followed this thread from its start and was puzzled like you at its beginning. It had no expressed intent or purpose. It did however take on some vestiges of usefullness (almost thread like) when Hyakutake-san discussed the apparent lack of grounding in the techniques displayed. I posted when I did because from this readers view their was nothing going on that was ever going to be settled over a forum. It had degraded from something that at worst was lame and confusing to a personal pissing match. It is likely my two cents was not needed or appreciated because it had nothing to do with me (after all I "had not posted"). Forum however are for public intake and output and mine was stated. It was not meant as a slight on any party in this thread only on the thread's direction.
Cheers,
Howard


Amen to that.
Thanks for clarifying.

MarkF
11th August 2005, 11:15
Luis,

Ya basta! I realize English is not your native tongue but you agreed to a few rules when you signed on. You have broken two of them repeatedly with personal attacks and language you know well-enough that will start to flame out (the language filter may catch it but it still is prohibited).

Also, please read the rules posted at the top of every forum.

The thread is closed. You may start another thread but it will be monitored more closely.


Mark