PDA

View Full Version : Sho/Dai/Chu Kata?



E.elemental
15th July 2005, 21:07
As I understand there are many Kata that from the beginning is the same, as for example the Sakugawa no Kon Sho/Dai/Chu (Taira lineage). Is this correct? Also Yamanni-Ryu uses Kata of the same origin but now has become 2 (Sho/Dai)? Or am I wrong, did the persons developing these Kata create 2 or three similar? Perhaps I wasnt able to explain my thoughts but this is what I need answers to:

1. Why are the different names (lengths/difficulty) of what I understand is originally the same Kata.

2. Have this always been the case or is this a later development?

I dont really now much about this so every answer is welcome. :)

Shikiyanaka
17th July 2005, 17:01
Hi,

there is a good opportunity to study this subject: Shûshi no Kun (also Shûuji no Kun). It is found in many lineages and the differences are obvious, although the similarities are also. :)

In Yamane Oshiro Chôyô lineage there is one Shûuji no Kun, and also in Yamane Kishaba-ryū Bōjutsu. Persons who trained with Kishaba (which are said to have been many) also often employ this one Shûuji version.

It is quite similar to the Taira-Akamine lineage version, however not the same, neither from Enbusen, nor from freedom of movement, nor from the Bô which should be used with it (Yamane uses a thinner Bô, I think) (Hozon Shinkô: Preservation and Promotion. E.g., Inoue wrote, that Kata should not be employed for personal use). In the book Ryûkyû Kobudô Jôkan (Inoue Motokatsu), in the Kata chapter of Shûshi no Kun Shô, there is an explanation why this version has some different and additional movements:


p. 81: (explanatory note) In the olden days the four movements number 37, 38, 39, and 40 didn't exist. These four movements at the end of the Kata had been appended by Yabiku Môden Sensei.

So Yabiku did what many do, i.e. being a main disciple he added his own ideas and concepts. The Shûshi no Kun Chû (Inoue lineage) is not part of the Akamine lineage. The Dai version, I guess, was alo a product of Yabiku and it has some techniques added. It all must have been a result of training, research and normal progression. Furthermore, in the last century many was adopted from Japanese Budô, especially the classification of a style seems to have been very important.


1. Why are the different names (lengths/difficulty) of what I understand is originally the same Kata.

I imagine they took the kata as what it was meant to be: as a template. When someone was/is thought or noted as an exceptional student or talent, after some decades of training, he/she seems to have just added to the original template. I think this is ok (as long as your Okinawan. Otherwise you will have to die immediatley and grewsome :p ).


2. Have this always been the case or is this a later development?
In some styles I think this is done maybe even more today than was in the past (also we are told different).

TimJurgens
18th July 2005, 06:41
The extension of the logic from Katate is also evident with various versions of Passai Sho/Dai, Kusanku Sho/Dai, and the like out there.