Manrikigusari (weighted chain)

[Soulend]

Not sure whether I should be asking this in one of the Ninjutsu forums or not..could anyone recommend a book outlining techniques for the manrikigusari? Since I have been using nunchaku for almost 20 years now, I figured the manriki would not be so difficult...oops, wrong answer. Wow, it is difficult to control! But, it surely seems an extremely versatile weapon..any ideas for good texts? There is noone in my area that teaches it's use. So, I'll have to train under Sensei Softcover.

[Walker]

There is a book by Charles Gruzanski originally titled Chain and Spike (1968) and recently republished as Ninja Weapons (1991,1994). It covers the manrikigusari and shuriken of the Masaki ryu.

[Soulend]

Thanks Walker and Janty. Ya, I knew the samurai used them, I just mentioned the ninja because I thought that perhaps(possibly) the chain weapons might be more widely practiced among those that follow your Art today. And yup, as I said..you're right, they are very different. Seems like the manriki could serve as a flail, garrote, bolo, chain whip, "brass knuckles", shield..perhaps even a climbing aid if neccesary. I will definately look into the text and video you guys mentioned.

[pboylan]

<SHAMELESS PLUG ALERT>

I just happens I finally got around to putting up a video on manriki gusari, or as it is called in the ryuha the video comes from Fundo Kusari. It's at
http://budogu.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page18.html

It comes with a fundo kusari.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask here, or privately.

Peter Boylan
peter@budogu.com

[Charles.Roberts]

Hello All

I am posting this here becasue I think this group would have the most knoweledge about the manrikigusari or kusari fundo.

I am in Knoxville, TN and there are no koryu bujustsu sensei here to my knowledge.I found one Bujinkan sensei but he could not verify his lineage or authority to teach. I am currently studying Aikido and befor I studied Kyokushin Karate and Okinawan Kobudo for about 8 years.

While studying the Okinawan Kobudo I loved the nunchaku and now I have taken up an intrest in the manrikigusari. I have read the book "Spike and Chain" and purchased a manrikigusari. It has some similarities to nunchaku but the balance is very different.

Now knowing that I can not find an instructor locally to teach me, and that I have previous experience with flail type weapons before, can you suggest the following, in order of prefernece:

A seminar I could attend that would teach manrikigusari.

A dojo within driving distance from Knoxville, TN that I could train with monthly.

A good instructional video on manrikigusari.

More books on manrikigusari.


I am not in any position to be picky about which school of manrikigusari ro kusari fundo, any school of it's use would be better than the situation now.

Please give only constructive comments, remember what your mother would say "If you don't have anything nice to day don't say anything at all".

And thanks in advance for your time and help.

[Charles.Roberts]

So are the ninjutsu Manrikigusari videos any good?

Please don't take the monthly comment the wrong way, I would train more often if there was some place closer.

[Budoka 34]

Charles,

I'm also interested in Manrikigusari/Kusarifundo. I've worked with Sean Kennedy Shidoshi of the Bujinkan. I know Asheville is a drive but he may be able to help.
I'll see if I can find his info and pm you.

[Chuck.Gordon]

Check out www.budogu.com. I know Peter used to have at least one book (albeit in Japanese) about manrikigusari on the site. You might also query him directly at peter (at) budogu.com.

Chuck

[poryu]

Hi

you are going to find it as good as impossible to learn this art with out

1. a teacher
2. a training partner

I would suggest that if you do get a partner that until you are skilled with this weapon that you only use rope.

Using a real manrikigusari will only lead to injury, it is not an easy weapon to learn. Even those who are highly skilled do still occasionally suffer whiplash (had to mention that - I am sure he will get me back later :p )

I think trying to learn form a video or book will be a waste of time until you have recieved some good instruction.

I did hear of a Toda Ryu teacher in the uSA but I have no name sorry, maybe try a search for him.

[Charles.Roberts]

I will check out the Bujinkan Dojo in Cherokee, that is close to me. Closer than Ashville, NC.


I understand that a chain is not good for new students while doing grappling with the manrikigusari. I have been using the chain to practice the strikes. Mostly:

Kasumi (Strait strike outward with the end of the chain)

Kakoiuchi (Downward figure eight)

Sukuiuchi (Upward figure eight)


I don't see the returns on the strikes. or how do you get the chain back. Any input?

[Budoka 34]

I met Ira at a demo he did here in Asheville with Sean.

He moves very well and really seemed to know his weapons.
Let me know what you think. Maybe I'll come down sometime with Sean.

[poryu]

I don't see the returns on the strikes. or how do you get the chain back. Any input?

This is where you really are going t need a teacher. There is no way you can possibly understand these types of movements with out some proper help.

I know it looks like I am srt of putting a downer on things here, but martial arts is not a home study course and it is impossible to lean it with out training directly under a qualified teacher.

The connection between teacher and student is personal, its not smething you will get form a book or video. I am sure there is at least one teacher there in the USA who can help you and if your definately adamant (which it looks like you are) then find him and do the training you iwll be so much happier.

if your path then says you need to then further advance witht he Manriki, then it had to be Japan for you and there are masters of this art living and teaching in Japan.

I would suggest you go for it.

[Charles.Roberts]

This is where you really are going t need a teacher. There is no way you can possibly understand these types of movements with out some proper help.

I know it looks like I am srt of putting a downer on things here, but martial arts is not a home study course and it is impossible to lean it with out training directly under a qualified teacher.

The connection between teacher and student is personal, its not smething you will get form a book or video. I am sure there is at least one teacher there in the USA who can help you and if your definately adamant (which it looks like you are) then find him and do the training you iwll be so much happier.

if your path then says you need to then further advance witht he Manriki, then it had to be Japan for you and there are masters of this art living and teaching in Japan.

I would suggest you go for it.


I understand your point of view and respect it. I have a question that you as a Bujinkan Shidoshi would be able to awnser.

Would a Bujinkan sensei teach Manrikigusari to a non Bujinkan member? Would they be able to just teach Manrikigusari?

Is the Bujinkan system of Manrikigusari so intertwined with your system of taijutsu it would be impossible to teach only manrikigusari?

I will call the Cherokee Dojo this week, I have an Aikido demonstration this weekend.

Thanks for the input and thanks for keeping it positive.

[poryu]

Hi



Would a Bujinkan sensei teach Manrikigusari to a non Bujinkan member? Would they be able to just teach Manrikigusari?

This will depend entirely on each instructor. Iknow some people in the Bujinkan wgho have trained 10+ years and never trained with one or have only used one a few times. I would say very few instructors have any in depth knowledge with this weapon. It snot something that is trained extensively with by us.



Is the Bujinkan system of Manrikigusari so intertwined with your system of taijutsu it would be impossible to teach only manrikigusari?

We call it Kusarifundo (weight and chain). Officially there is not one ryu inthe Bujinkan that actually has this item listed in its curriculum. IN fact the Kusari training in the Bujinkan actually ocmes from hatsumisensei's training prior to meeting Takamatsu. This was with Nawa sensei soke of the Masaki Ryu. Hatsumi sensei has sort of introduced this item as we did not have a long chain weapon where as we have a long chain weapon with the Shoge.

I have the 1987 UK taikai video and that has Hatsumi sensei showing what I see my self in the Spike and Chain book which is Masaki Ryu.

Generally most Bujinkan instructors will incorporate the cahin into a kata from part of our system or in most cases just make something up

As for any other dojo apart form my own I cant comment on if they have any knwoledge at all with a kusari, you would need to ask the instructor. As for training with one weapon only then I am unsure also as to what other instructors will do, but if they say yes to your answer, then I suggest you make sure they do actually have extensive knowledge to teach you it.

Hope this is of help.

[Charles.Roberts]

Well I am back from the Aikido Demo, it went well. We had one of the young Yudansha get over excited and bust another Yudansha's lip. Other than that no injuries. The demo was at a country county fair we were right after the cloggers and blue grass performers.

It was my understanding that Bujinkan Kusarifundo was based on Masaki Ryu. And from my searching of the board there are or were two Masaki Ryu sensei in the USA. I will see if the dojo around here has experience with the kusari fundo and if they would be willing to teach.

Well back to my technical question, how do you return the weighted end of the chain with control. With a nunchaku you can catch the other flail under an arm, but how can you pull the weight back to your hand with the manrikigusari?

Can somone give me a discription of how to do it?