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KempoCat
27th July 2005, 15:18
hi guys,

just wanted to ask some of you about the credentials about a particular instructor that an old friend of mine saw and is thinking about joining up with this club.

my friend has talked to this person and he in return sent him an email with some info..

here is a snippet from that email, the instructors name is Nora Mukachung:


Nora has been training in Jujutsu and AikiJujutsu for nearly 30 years where he has reached the grade of Godan or 5th dan in both Jujutsu and Aikijujutsu from the Aiki Jujutsu Headquarter Seibukan, Tokyo Japan.
Hakko ryu Aikijujutsu is his main style. He has also trained in other styles at Black Belt level: Daito Ryu (T Harmada, Sensei);Takeda Ryu (Nakamura, Sensei ), and Ryo Shinto Ryu (J Short, Sensei).
Apart from Jujutsu and Aiki jujutsu, Nora has also practised Karate at Black Belt level, he is also competent in Greco- Roman wrestling


i am aware of hakko ryu and daito ryu, and have heard of takeda ryu but ive never heard of ryo shinto ryu.

many thanks

Nathan Scott
15th August 2005, 20:53
Hello,

"Harmada" is not a Japanese name. Guessing the intended spelling was "Hamada", I did a search and only came up with the following info from the Seidokan organization:

From: http://www.dentokanhombu.com/history.htm


Bill had been a long time student of Tenshin Hamada, the international director of the famous Dai Nippon Butokukai, and he related an interesting story behind this long sword kata. The kata was the invention of Sensei Hamada’s father, Seishin Hamada. Seishin Hamada had been a teacher at the Butokukai and master of Itto-Ryu. Itto-Ryu is a classical form of Japanese sword founded by Ittosai Ito (1560-1628). Prior to founding Itto-Ryu, Ito had been a master practitioner of Shinkage-Ryu. The long kata I observed was Seishin Hamada’s compilation, into a continuous flowing form, of the numerous short Itto-Ryu kata. It contains the essence of Itto-Ryu, a style closely associated with modern day Kendo and Daito-Ryu Aikijujutsu.

I didn't find any mention of Hamada actually studying Daito-ryu with anyone. Also, Ito Ittosai was NOT a master of Shinkage-ryu. I don't know where that came from, as Itto-ryu and Shinkage-ryu are two very different styles.

Also worth mentioning is a section on the page linked above, written by Roy J. Hobbs, that states:


Sokaku Takeda had many students. Among these was Toshimi (Hosaku) Matsuda. It was Matsuda who was Yoshiji Okuyama’s (1901-1987) first and primary Daito-Ryu teacher. Okuyama later became a direct student of Sokaku Takeda for a short time. This is important because Okuyama would go on to form his own ryu/ha (style/method) of Ju-Jutsu called Hakko-Ryu as a derivative of Daito-Ryu.

This is basically correct. Okuyama studied primarily under Matsuda, and formed Hakko-ryu because he was not allowed to use the Daito-ryu name. A lot of people in Hakko-ryu seem to be using the term aiki in their art as well, which is an interesting new development.

Aikido Journal's Encyclopedia of Aikido has the following listing for Hakko-ryu Jujutsu:


A hybrid martial art and healing system founded by Ryuho Okuyama in 1941. Okuyama studied DAITO-RYU AIKIJUJUTSU under Toshimi Matsuda in Asahikawa, Hokkaido starting in late 1920s. He later spent a brief period training directly under Sokaku TAKEDA in Hokkaido beginning in 1936. Okuyama's training also included studies of traditional oriental medicine and present-day Hakko-ryu includes equal emphasis on the learning of jujutsu techniques and medical arts. Hakko-ryu Jujutsu Hombu Dojo, Horinouchi, 2-chome 193, Omiya-shi, Saitama-ken 330 Japan (0486)41-2003.

However, Takeda Sokaku's eimeiroku lists Okuyama studying with Takeda in 1939. The entry is as follows:

1939 (Showa 14) - Okuyama Yoshiharu. Changed name to "Ryuho". Opened Hakko-ryu. Published "Daito-ryu Goshinjutsu."

Regards,

yoj
12th September 2005, 11:18
The Ryo Shinto ryu (sic) refers to Jim Shortt:

http://www.ryoishintoryu.org/

giles
13th September 2005, 09:59
I can't speak for his karate background, but I'm happy to vouch for Nora's jujutsu background. I was his uke at his grading a few years ago and last trained with him in November 2004.

Nora's Hakko Ryu connection is now through Dentokan (http://www.dentokanhombu.com/shihans.htm).
Ryoi Shinto Ryu and Dentokan in the UK have quite close ties with a fair bit of cross training going on.

Nice guy. Go and play with him for a while and see if you like it.

yoj
13th September 2005, 10:12
doffs cap


well, I'll be in trouble for this, and it was only a bracket out too, but hey, Robs driving tonight (I know, I'm stunned too.) so gimme a straw and let the pain relief flow ;-)



Shihans (http://www.dentokanhombu.com/shihans.htm)

Nathan Scott
25th October 2013, 00:49
Hi all,

I conducted a search today on "seisui no ken" and noticed that the history of this kata still hasn't been ironed out very well. There are now rumors of it having been taught at the Toyama Academy, and rumors that it is based on Itto-ryu. According to page 8 of a 2010 newsletter (http://www.nipponseibukan-usa.com/files/ZNBR_USA_Branch_Newsletter_Vol_2_Issue_1_-_Winter_2010.pdf) by Roy Hobbs, it was created by Harada Tenshin's father, Harada Seishin, both of whom are/were instructors at the Dai Nippon Butokukai. What the kata was inspired by would be interesting to know.

The kata, as demonstrated HERE (http://www.dentokanhombu.com/video/SeisuiNoKen.wmv) by Mr. Hobbs, consists of a standing, long iaido-style solo form, featuring responses in four directions. The only similarity I see between it and any form of Toyama-ryu kata I've ever seen/learned is that they are both performed from standing. As far as Itto-ryu goes, I saw maybe one position that could be associated with Itto-ryu. But otherwise the whole thing bears no resemblance (IMO) to anything I've seen in Itto-ryu, and is in fact, in many ways counter to what I've seen in Itto-ryu.

So from my perspective, the kata has no resemblance to Toyama-ryu or Itto-ryu. It does, however, appear to combine influences from more than one sword art, but it is difficult to say which ones. If I had to guess though, I'd say it was an attempt to mimic Katori shinto-ryu techniques while constrained within a typical standing iaido format.

For the record, I'm not trying to trash this kata, as it may provide some level of insight to the proponent. I simply had a renewed interest in clarifying its background and influences. Any further insights or opinions would be welcome.