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View Full Version : No bucks for budo....



John Lindsey
24th November 2000, 18:27
We have all heard it before…students who want to train, but cannot because they cannot afford the training.

“What, quit my day job at MacDonalds?”

When I hear such complaints from prospective students, I politely suggest that they take the time and energy to change their life so that they can pursue their dreams. Many times, I discovered that martial art training turns out to be low on their priorities…something they want to do without exerting too much effort.

If you want something bad enough, you will find ways to make it happen. Look at your monthly spending habits. Are there things you can do without to allow you the money for your training? For instance, the average price for a computer game would go a long ways towards training fees.

Comments?

Matsukaze
24th November 2000, 19:07
Mr. Lindsey,

I am a newbie posting here, although I have lurked here for quite awhile. Great site!

It does seem that those who worry about the cost of training simply aren't willing to make sacrifices in order to study a martial art. Dave Lowry wrote an excellent article about this that I am sure you have read which can be found at the Koryu Online library, http://koryu.com/library/dlowry7.html .

Some arts, like iaido, do require a certain level of financial commitment up front that can put some people off. Other arts, like karate and judo, have very little cost other than the monthly training fees. When you look at these costs versus cable television, the dojo is a downright bargain!

Pat Thomas

Michael Becker
24th November 2000, 21:01
John

An exellent post!

In my experience some students seem to think that you should be grateful to them for turning up and learning from you!

One person asked me over the phone once if I did discounts-on a class fee of £3.50 a lesson!!! I amazingly told the lady in a polite manner that, no, I did not as the fees were already more than reasonable ( I was not making a profit ).

My own teacher covered this topic in a magazine article entitled "Knowledge of a Lifetime"*. His point was that you were not, as a student, paying for the class or seminar time but rather the hard earned experience earned after years of practice and sacrifice ( and yes, considerable expense ).

That being said, my own teacher has taught students for nothing when he thought they were truely sincere. When I was at university he taught me at a considerable discount from his normal class fees-a very generous act.

The student has to ask themself if they are commited or mearly dabbling. If they are commited, then they will find the money more often than not. If they are just dabbling and want something cheap to do then they can go away. My time is the most valuable commodity of all.

* http://www.ptcci.freeserve.co.uk

Jason Chambers
24th November 2000, 23:08
I hate to even comment on posts like this.

Us po' boys do our best. :D

Sheridan
24th November 2000, 23:18
The class fees I pay are chump change and are only for the pruposes of paying for plane tickets when we have a sensei come to canada. None profit all the way. Nevermind video games, I started planning my first trip to Japan for spring next year when I realised that I was wasting close to eight hundred dollars a month on eating out! :eek:

John Lindsey
25th November 2000, 00:07
Let me also say that in my case, I would never turn away a student who is sincere and seriously interested. But, they better not show up with a new sports car and expect any mercy :).

Jason Chambers
25th November 2000, 00:56
Originally posted by John Lindsey
Let me also say that in my case, I would never turn away a student who is sincere and seriously interested. But, they better not show up with a new sports car and expect any mercy :).



"New"? :laugh: What does that mean?

John Lindsey
25th November 2000, 05:00
Jason,

Its an inside joke..and actually a BMW as I recall...

Jason Chambers
25th November 2000, 11:18
;) Gotcha!

I still am unfamiliar with the term "new" though. :D

Carl Elder
25th November 2000, 15:57
I dont know, when I started taking martial arts, I was taking them for free. Some of the other people at the school were paying 40 dollars at the least and up to 150 dollars a month at the most, which at the time I thought was outrageous. I would not have paid that much to take martial arts at the time. But 2 years after I started my sensei left that dojo to start up his own, and he started charging 40 dollars a month, and then raised it to 75 about a year later because he did not expect the maintance of the dojo would b so expensisve :) And i wasnt really "hooked" until after about a year of practice. And now I know that the learning of martial arts is far more valuble than any price, but what bothers me about high prices for the MA's is that some people will never realize how special they are because at first they do not want to pay that much for something they have never done.

Margaret Lo
27th November 2000, 16:08
Originally posted by Sheridan
Nevermind video games, I started planning my first trip to Japan for spring next year when I realised that I was wasting close to eight hundred dollars a month on eating out! :eek:

But in Vancouver its perfectly justifiable to blow money on food, what with all the good stuff available!!

If I had to choose between a good meal and a good seminar, I confess I would be hard pressed to give up the meal.

M

Paul Mathews
27th November 2000, 21:15
As instructor for a university club I was always amazed at the number of students who wouldn't blink at blowing $100 or more at the area bars on the weekend but who didn't want to part with $50 for a full semester of training. Guess we know why LSU has been named the top Party school twice in the last three years.

My favorite was the neophyte who joined, trained for 3 weeks and then disappeared without giving us any kind of notice. It seems that he decided that playing flag football with his frat brothers was higher on his priority list. Close to the end of the semester he told one of my senior students that he "would be by to pick up his training fees since he didn't actually train for the entire semester." I wonder if he ever tried that with the cable company. "I would like a refund on my cable subscription since I went out of town this month and didn't actually watch any TV at home!"

Time or money, it's always about priorities.

Paul

BC
27th November 2000, 21:33
I think another aspect of charging money for martial arts training is a "perception" issue. I mean that often if someone doesn't have to pay for something, they might not believe or perceive that it really has any benefit or value to them. However, if you charge students for their training, I think that not only does it represent a level of committment on the students' behalf, but also an affirmation (possibly unspoken or unconscious) that they are getting something back in return for their money. IMHO.

Jason Chambers
27th November 2000, 21:56
Originally posted by Paul Mathews
As instructor for a university club I was always amazed at the number of students who wouldn't blink at blowing $100 or more at the area bars on the weekend but who didn't want to part with $50 for a full semester of training. Guess we know why LSU has been named the top Party school twice in the last three years.


LOL!:D
:wave: Hey neighbor!

TommyK
28th November 2000, 03:37
Greetings,

As many of you know, I study korean Karate and Self-Defense at a totally non-profit school. The fees collected are donated to the local Salvation Army outpost for the use of their gym. This arrangement has been in effect for almost 30 years!

At one time this school had the largest pre-teen class in the country, with as many as 125 students attending a 2 hour Saturday class. As a Black Belt I also attended and helped to teach on Saturday mornings. It never failed to amaze me that the students who regularly 'forgot' their donation, or gave 1 fee to cover multiple children, were always picked up by the parent driving the Mercedes, and why is that, I thought?

The answer is: thats how they have cars like that, the parents go through life ripping off others and the system until they create the level of wealth they want. God Bless Free Enterprise!!! These people often got something for nothing.

Regards,
TommyK

Sheridan
29th November 2000, 00:10
Margaret, I wish that I was spending the money on GOOD food. Maybe ten or fifteen percent of that is decent grub. The rest is pure crap, because I'm too damn lazy to make even simple bachelor fare! I can do without KFC(rap) or McYucks for a few months.

Monster
13th December 2000, 21:00
When I began training my parents footed the bill. After awhile they split up and there was money problems. My instructor had a program called "The Blue Jay Program" ..dont know why he called it that. Anyways if you didnt have alot of money or whatever he would pull you aside and ask you if you wanted to join. What happened is you had to show up 15 mins early and sweep the floors , empty the trash , clean the windows. Then before any other students got there you would get into uniform and prepare for class. Once class was out and everyone left you would work out with him for 30 mins.

It changed my life. Not only did it teach a work ethic of sorts but it taught that the extra effort I put forth went a long way. I got an extra 30 mins of training. Eventually as I got older and better I didnt have to pay at all and just worked out.

Now with my school I'm running into problems. They are my own fault actually. I teach NHB fighting. Thats not real mainstream and most people dont like the idea of coming and getting slammed in the face. Well anyways if one of my students shows promise and wants to compete I train them for free. The only rule is I get 50% of their winnings. Well Im ending up with like 2 paying students LOL. Oh well I love it.
Hell my old boxing instructor used to charge $1.00 a lesson...he paid for the gym , equipment and everything out of his pocket. I guess there is a line where Business and Art do not meet.

Jason Chambers
14th December 2000, 01:19
Now the Blue Jay thing sounds like a good idea, especially around here where money is tight.

What I have done is charge students a moderate monthly fee, with those monies, I buy the student a very nice heavy weight uniform, a hakama and tabis. Whatever other "materials" they may need along thier way comes out of their tuition for that month. Thier total average training time amounts to 40 hours a month.

Now I do profit a little, I average about $20.00 a month per student, after giving to the dojo that we share with a friend.

Now obviously, I could not do this if I had a considerable overhead, but I think for now it is a good course to follow. At least until the economy picks up or we have an enrollment that requires a school of our own.