Kenjutsu Help

[Lew]

Dear Friends,

I am interested in learning the sword and and looking for a club in travelling distance from Birmingham as I have just moved up here for university.

It seems my options are limited. Does anyone know anywhere I can practice?

I have seen seen some tapes on ebay teaching kashima shinryu. Is this the same as kashima shinto ryu?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Kashima-Shinryu-Kenjutsu-vol-1-VHS-NTSC_W0QQitemZ6430183441QQcategoryZ309QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Is it worth using these to pass the time until I can find a dojo?

Thank you.

Lew

[SLeclair]

I don't think you have far to go at all:

Masamune dojo (http://www.masamunedojo.com/)

I know they do Muso Jikiden Eishin ryu, but I'm not sure which flavor exactly. It should be either seitokai with some connection with Iwata sensei or Harusuke-ha under Oshita sensei. They are also part of the Niten Ichi Ryu dosokai, so you can do that too. Hope that helps.

Edit: Tapes and books are fun, but they're not teaching tools. If you want to pass the time, sure. If you want to practice the art, better just go to the dojo.

---
Sebastien L.

[Lew]

Wow you guys are quick. Thanks Sebastien. I will have a look at what they do and where they are. I have got my heart set on Kashima Shinto Ryu after doing a bit of research on the net, but I guess this is not advertised like other martial arts.

[ScottUK]

Lew,

We practice iaido on Tuesday evenings and Sunday lunchtimes. You are welcome at any time - drop me a PM if you wish to attend and I'll let sensei know.

Which university are you at?

Best wishes,

[SLeclair]

Actually, it seems I assumed and was wrong about Niten Ichi Ryu in that dojo. The dojo is not part of the dosokai. If you are interested, I would ask the sensei about it; I don't know where they learned their Niten Ichi Ryu or what it's connected to. I do know some students that practice at that dojo and are part of the dosokai, but I understand that is not what is taught. Again, best to just ask them in person I think. Sorry for the confusion.

Regards,
Sebastien L.

[Charles Mahan]

Sebastien,

Are you sure Iwata-sensei and the Haruske-ha folks are associated with the MJER Seitokai led by Ikeda-soke? That was not my understanding. Or are you thinking of a different Seitokai? I'm reasonably certain that the ranks provided by Iwata-sensei's organization are not signed by soke, and the same is true for the Haruske-ha group. Or at least that's what I understood to be true.

Charles

[SLeclair]

Sebastien,

Are you sure Iwata-sensei and the Haruske-ha folks are associated with the MJER Seitokai led by Ikeda-soke? That was not my understanding. Or are you thinking of a different Seitokai? I'm reasonably certain that the ranks provided by Iwata-sensei's organization are not signed by soke, and the same is true for the Haruske-ha group. Or at least that's what I understood to be true.

Charles

Ack! Someday somebody will shoot me over some nuance in organizational differences, I swear... Or I'll do it myself! Maybe I should just shut up about it :)

Ehmmm, let's see. I was saying either Oshita sensei and Harusuke-ha or Iwata sensei and seitokai, not both, of course. I am unsure and it was merely speculation from my part. The former case was because of a short memorial to Matsuo Haruna on the dojo's front page; Oshita sensei now heads his group, I believe. That would definitely be Harusuke-ha. As to the latter, Iwata sensei, well, I knew some people from England I met at the HNIR seminar were doing MJER under Iwata sensei, and I know some people from England at that HNIR that were under Iwata sensei, so I supposed that could be the dojo. It could have been possible that when Haruna sensei passed away, they went with Iwata sensei.

Of course, I quite clearly remember that dojo in England now. That would be the eikoku roshukai, obviously. So masamune dojo is probably under Oshita sensei and Harusuke-ha. But that's all speculation, as I said. Better to ask them.

As to Iwata sensei and the seitokai, I don't know how they work together or not. I remember being told that Iwata sensei is teacher to the menkyo kaiden of Ikeda soke (3 of them, I think?). It's all very fuzzy now, as it involved copious quantities of beer with Colin and other fine folk. I had gotten the impression that Iwata sensei was closely tied in with Seitokai, but that might well not be the case. The interview from 2000 that I reread just now points out that his rank is ZNKR and not seitokai. I don't know if he signs certificates and who he signs them with. You probably know much more about all this seitokai stuff anyway :p

The conclusion to draw from all this: go and ask sensei, don't rely on random internet nutjobs like me :)

---
Sebastien L.

[Charles Mahan]

Ok. I see what you were saying now. At least I think I do. I'm not at all clear on what Iwata-sensei's connection is with the Seitokai. Thanks for the clarification on Haruna-sensei. I think I've got my brain around that much at least.

There's still plenty I don't know about the ZNIR and the Seitokai trust me :)

[Brian Owens]

Ack! Someday somebody will shoot me over some nuance in organizational differences, I swear...I was saying either Oshita sensei and Harusuke-ha or Iwata sensei and seitokai, not both, of course.
All that confusion, and all for want of a simple comma. :p

It seems Charles was reading it as, "...It should be either seitokai[b], with some connection with Iwata sensei or Harusuke-ha under Oshita sensei," while you were intending, "...It should be either seitokai with some connection with Iwata sensei, or Harusuke-ha under Oshita sensei."

Anyway, to answer Lew's other question; no, Kashima Shinryu and Kashima Shinto Ryu are not the same art.

Kashima Shinryu, founded circa 1450CE, is currently headed by Seki Fumitake. For more information, see:

Kashima Shinryu home page (http://www.kashima-shinryu.jp/English/index.html)

Kashima Shinto Ryu, founded circa 1530CE by Tsukahara Bokuden, is currently headed by 65th generation headmaster, Yoshikawa Tsuenetaka. For more information see:

Kashima Shinto-ryu article at Koryu Books (http://www.koryubooks.com/library/mskoss3.html)

HTH.

[UKPatrick]

Sorry to be late here guys,

Masamune Dojo, Birmingham, England, is headed by Fay Goodman, (Nanadan iaido) a student of Oshita sensei.

We look to him as 'our' sensei, but most of us have only had annual contact with him at the British Kendo Association Summer Schools. Fay and one of our fourth dans have more direct training with him in Japan.

Masamune Dojo, at the moment, does not have a niten class, although there are several members who practice what they have been taught by Soke at seminars outside of the UK. Scott Halls and I met you Sebastien, in Guelph last May, as did Alex, who is a member of the Roshukai group you mentioned. Alex is, I believe, now 'swinging his sticks' in Japan.

[ScottUK]

Yo Sebastien,

Check out Pat's signature... :D

I guess Pat summed it all up regarding Oshita-s and Harasuke-ha.

I had the good fortune to train with Iwata-s once and is an excellent teacher, despite his advanced age. There isn't much cross-training between the BKA (Oshita-s, Ishido-s) and the Eikoku Roshukai (Iwata-s) but a few of the BKA's MJER guys stop by every now and again for a brew and a few kata.

[Chidokan]

As is usual in MA, we have a nice little confusion going...the HNIR group has all sorts of people in from all the clubs, who help them out by organising seminars for them! Eikoku Roshukai organised one in Leeds the other week.... so...you have MJER students also learning HNIR, with BKA, ER, and god knows how many more clubs turning up to totally confuse anyone who likes to try and follow the political/teacher tree!! Anyone fancy doing the tree in a few years time? :)
MJER in Japan is similar to this. Everyone who is any good knows everyone else, regardless of association. I find it pretty friendly in a slightly competitive sort of way, but not in any way nasty as in "they do that, its wrong because we do this". More "fair enough, but have you thought of this?"

Iwata sensei is not part of Seitokai, but is familiar with the students. He recommended me to watch the previous soke, as he said "he was quite good"(a seriously major compliment coming from him!!) He has issued menkyo kaiden to some of his students but is entitled to as he has a couple himself. Nippon Roshukai as a group however do not issue certificates, they are a loose group from all the associations who study MJER. Interestingly enough I also meet Shinden people (usually over 7th dan), who turn up to be taught by him. Anyone want to try and work that 'tree' out???

BTW Alex is running a blog for his year in Japan, so if you have nothing to do and want to read it...http://www.shiroi-baka.blogspot.com/

[Charles Mahan]

Thanks for chiming in Tim. That jives with what I've been told about all the top guys pretty much being drinking buddies.

[hyaku]

All that confusion, and all for want of a simple comma. :p

It seems Charles was reading it as, "...It should be either seitokai[b], with some connection with Iwata sensei or Harusuke-ha under Oshita sensei," while you were intending, "...It should be either seitokai with some connection with Iwata sensei, or Harusuke-ha under Oshita sensei."

This has me a bit confused. Whats the Harusuke Ha? Isnt that a first name and not a family name.

There was Yamamoto Harusuke who as far as I know didnt leave any deshi. Yamamoto Takuji who has one remaining deshi.

[hyaku]

Masamune Dojo, at the moment, does not have a niten class, although there are several members who practice what they have been taught by Soke at seminars outside of the UK. Scott Halls and I met you Sebastien, in Guelph last May, as did Alex, who is a member of the Roshukai group you mentioned. Alex is, I believe, now 'swinging his sticks' in Japan.

If I　might add a bit. HNIR is of course a separate entity in the UK with people wanting to and indeed practicing together from various groups and associations. At present the intention is to runs things on a Dosokai(everyone's a student) basis having no need to be part of an association.

Hopefully that's the way it will remain with all having a common interest, getting together as they have done up to now. With that the HNIR in the UK under the present soke and menkyo will go from　strength to strength.

[ZealUK]

Alex is, I believe, now 'swinging his sticks' in Japan.

Yes I'm in Kagoshima now! Hope things are well over there :D

[Chidokan]

have you actually got round to doing some training, or havent you sobered up yet? :rolleyes:

[ZealUK]

Yes I've been down at the heihosho quite a bit. No iai or kendo as yet. Not much chance to do Jikiden down here. JigenRyu is like starting from scratch. Everything is different.

Having said that Im off to Kanoya for a weeks seminar so no training there.

Theres so many enkai here its hard not to go drinking!

[UKPatrick]

Theres so many enkai here its hard not to go drinking![/QUOTE]

Alex, from what I remember from Canada, you can do it, again and again and again

[Chidokan]

I thought you were close to Terao sensei at Saga, Hyaku's old haunt? You're a damn sight closer than the rest of us to some quality training and you're not taking advantage??!!! Luxury...Pah, in my day I used to travel the length of the country every month to meet a shodan for the weekend. You tell the youth of today...etc... :rolleyes:

[ZealUK]

Im about 2 1/2 hours from Saga, so Im thinking of visiting on my nenkyu which is next week. I dont have iaito or bokuto here yet! Jigenryu has all of the weapons for loan in the heihosho, so you dont bring your own.

Im trying to stick with only a few things so I dont get confused, Jigenryu being the main practice. Going to play around in kendo at highschools, and might try to practice Iai too.

Ooops got to go!!

[Lew]

Thank you to all who helped. I emailed the Masamune Dojo but haven't had any reply yet. Is it worth attending a class to see iaido or should I speak to the sensei first?

In fact, I didn't realise there are so many dojos here. I have found a few on www.kendo.org.uk and one very close to where my new flat is in Meriden, Coventry.

It would have helped if I entered the right search words into google!

Thanks to you all again.

Lew

[ScottUK]

Lew,

Sensei Goodman is in Germany all this week filming for a project she is working on. Try emailing her on fay@goodmedia.co.uk - I think she has access to that one via her PDA.

You're welcome to come to the practice at any time. Like I said, drop Patrick or myself a line and we can introduce you to the class.

All the best,

[UKPatrick]

Lew,

call me a traitor, but, Tony Janew runs a Jodo and Iaido dojo within walking distance (well almost) of Meriden, at Allsley Village, in the Methodist (I think) Church Hall. His details would be available on the BKA website.

Drop me a PM and I'll give you his phone number.