Mon ettequette

[UKPatrick]

I know that there are many, many Mon out there, but is there an ettequette to who (and why) can wear a particular Mon.

Second question, a bit more radicle, Can we (those of any European origin) wear a Mon sized Heraldic Emblem, or Family Coat of Arms? And if not, why not?

[gendzwil]

This has been discussed to death on Kendo World (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1910). That's just one example thread.

My opinion is, if you're of Japanese descent, use your family's kamon. If you're not, you can put your sensei's mon there if he gives you permission. Anything else is just goofy.

A related issue is what you put on your zekken. That would be your last name, spelled in roman characters across the bottom. If you want to put it in Japanese writing in the middle, use kanji only if you have a name that is written with Chinese characters (Japanese, Chinese, Korean etc). Otherwise, use katakana. Don't use kanji to make sounds that are close to your name (and here's where the issues get related) because that's just goofy.

[Charles Mahan]

This is really a question for your instructor. He should know whether or not the political enviornment you are part of would be accepting of the use of a heraldric symbol as a mon. What the rest of us think is pretty irrelevant.

At any rate if you choose something other than one of the more usual mon of Japanese design, you'd best be prepared for some strange looks from the Japanese and perhaps an odd question or two.

[gendzwil]

This is really a question for your instructor. He should know whether or not the political enviornment you are part of would be accepting of the use of a heraldric symbol as a mon. What the rest of us think is pretty irrelevant.
I'm just trying to think of a traditional Japanese political environment where that would be acceptable.... Personally, I think if they say yes, they're just humouring you.

[UKPatrick]

I agree about the strange looks - I certainly gave more than a passing glance to the emblem on a Montsuki worn by a visitor to our dojo, when we noticed a shield shaped 'mon' on his sleeve.

The visitors view was that for 'casual' wear in the dojo, it was ok, but not for grading or competition.

However, in view of the fact (I believe) that anyone can ask for a 'coat of arms' subject to, in our case Citizenship, and secondly, some claim to 'merit'. For this, attaining a degree from a recognised university is sufficient.

This being the case, many of us could sport our own 'mon'.

I'll follow this on Kendo World, as you have kindly provided a thread for me. Thanks guys

[UKPatrick]

Hi Genzdwil,

thanks for the link, BUT, I read lots of opinions, of several sides, but little fact!

Is it better to wear a little symbol that belongs to someone else, or is generic, or wear something that has a personal significance to the practitioner?

[hyaku]

Hi Genzdwil,

thanks for the link, BUT, I read lots of opinions, of several sides, but little fact!

Is it better to wear a little symbol that belongs to someone else, or is generic, or wear something that has a personal significance to the practitioner?

I have strict instructions not to wear the Tachibana family crest unless its a festival, event, embu or ho-on embu connected with the clan.

In any case with generations of Japanese intermarriage I wonder exactly how many familys there are out there that can genuinly say they have a mon that has been handed down.

One would not wear a morning suit with tales to go jogging or dig a hole. So I see little point in wearing monsuki unless its something very special.

[gendzwil]

I see little point in wearing monsuki unless its something very special.
I thought we were talking about kamon on the doh, not monsuki here.

[UKPatrick]

Sorry if I did not make my question clear, but I was querying Mon, on keikogi or iaigi.
I have only seen one person wearing a Scottish family coat of arms 'as a mon' on a montsuki he wore for low key dojo events. I was not aware until tonight - on my first kendo lesson, that people put little stickers on their doh.

Oh, so much to learn.....

[gendzwil]

It goes beyond stickers, you can spend a goodly amount to have one painted on. 14000 yen in the Koei catalog for the nicest one, although it's probably available at a discount through bogubag. That's about half the price of a cheap fibre doh.

[renfield_kuroda]

What Hyaku said. What is this fascination with wearing some other family's crest?
If you're from LA, do you proudly wear a hat and t-shirt that declares "NYC Rules"?
Either you have a mon (your family's or your ryu's) or you don't. Most folks who do have a mon wear it only on formal ocassions; montsuki.
Other than that it really looks quite affected.

Regards,

r e n

[pgsmith]

Either you have a mon (your family's or your ryu's) or you don't.
Actually, I spoke with a couple of Japanese fellows about this, and they said that family mon are pretty uncommon these days. If they have a formal occasion that requires a montsuki, I was told that they can be rented like we do tuxedos here, with no attention paid to what mon is on it. Of course that was almost ten years ago in Kawasaki, so things could easily be different now.

[Brian Owens]

...I was querying Mon, on keikogi or iaigi. ...
My 2 cents' worth:

As Hyaku said, mon are for formal attire. Putting them on a keikogi seems to be like wearing a top hat while lifting weights.

As for putting mon on a montsuki, without one it really isn't a montsuki, is it? Not feeling comfortable wearing someone else's mon, I created one of my own (see my avatar) based on an element from my coat-of-arms, both of which are copyrighted (since the US doesn't recognize the laws of arms).

I haven't used it yet, so I can't say what kind of reactions it will get.

[UKPatrick]

Brian,

I think the guy I saw wearing his family crest felt much as you do, but, having a coat of arms of his own, wanted to wear that. He is the only one I have seen, but there must (really) be more people out there. After all, there are lots and lots of club badges, which in some ways are the same thing.

[Brian Owens]

Brian,

I think the guy I saw wearing his family crest felt much as you do, but, having a coat of arms of his own, wanted to wear that. ...
I can relate; I'm quite proud of my coat of arms. I'm fortunate that it contains an element within it (repeated 13 times to represent the original 13 American Colonies) that is easily modified into a design that follows the form of Japanese "crests" without being a copy of one, to the extent that the "badge" being held by the lion on the crest of my arms is identical to my "mon."

[renfield_kuroda]

Actually, I spoke with a couple of Japanese fellows about this, and they said that family mon are pretty uncommon these days. If they have a formal occasion that requires a montsuki, I was told that they can be rented like we do tuxedos here, with no attention paid to what mon is on it. Of course that was almost ten years ago in Kawasaki, so things could easily be different now.
Could be...there are a few million people in Japan, and I'm fairly sure that most of them have no idea what their mon is, if they even have one.
Most folks would just wear a black suit or dress to a funeral or wedding instead of a montsuki, but then again plenty of people rent montsuki with random mon on it, and it sure looks strange when the members of a single family are each wearing different mon...but then again most people don't know nor care.

Regards,

r e n

[hyaku]

Isn't Owens a Welsh name?

[Brian Owens]

Isn't Owens a Welsh name?
It's a "by name" meaning Son of Owen, which is an Anglicized version of ap Owain, which is Welsh, but can also be an Anglicization of the Irish Eoghann or the Cornish Aldowen.

Another Anglicization of ap Owain is Bowen.

In my case, yes, it's Welsh, from my ancestor Richard Owen, b. 1514.

[Maro]

Bowen would indicate the female lineage - ab Owen being "Daughter of Owen".

A lot of modern names come from this - Pritchard, Parry etc although mostly the male lineage.