Shiteigata- who else have heard of these?

[Gimbo]

I have a book, from the japan karatedo federation that lists 8 shite kata's: seipai, saifa, jion, kanku(dai), seienchin, bassai(dai), seishan, and chinto. My understanding is that these kata's were developed for multistyle tournaments but I wonder how many people have even heard of them.

[Rob Alvelais]

Tons of people have. And, there are 8 more shitei kata. Matsumura Rohai, Nipaipo, Enpi, Kanku Sho, Kururunfa, Seisan, Niseishi and Kushanku.

They're the shiteikata for the JKF and the WKF, although I'm not sure if the WKF has adopted them *yet*. I kept hearing that they were going to, but I haven't heard that they've pulled the trigger yet.



Rob

[Budoka 34]

The first list is accepted as the WKF/JKF compulsory kata list and is recognised as such by most, if not all, continental and national governing bodies. (PKF, USANKF, etc...)

Goju: Seipai and Saifa
Shotokan: Jion and Kankudai
Shito: Bassai Dai and Seienchin
Wado: Seishan and Chinto

I had heard that the additions where being considered but had run into some difficulty with several bodies being opposed to them.

[Andrew S]

My info from the JKF is that the second list was to come into effect this year, the extension being justified by "disparities in kata because they are not being taught in Japan", or words to that effect.
The JKF published the original Karatedo Kata Model for Teaching in 1982, and the new book with the second list of kata last year. The original bilingual version of the first was a joke, although the second was much better.
As a side note, the performer of kankusho is none other than the JKA's Osaka Sensei, the man behind the majority of the kata demonstrated in Best Karate.
As I am not currently involved with the JKF I can't say any more at present.

Hope I've been of some help.

Andrew

[Gimbo]

The book I have only has the 8, it makes no mention of any others. I have the newer updated book too. I did a google search and it didn't show up much so I was wondering if I was just wasting my time learning them.

[Rob Alvelais]

I was wondering if I was just wasting my time learning them.

Are you going to be competing in the JKF, WKF or the in the mandatory kata divisions in one of the WKF Member organizations? If not, then you might be. Not that learning the kata isn't a good thing, but at your stage (you say you'e a shodan) the versions of the kata in the JKF books aren't the same as the Itosu Kai/Itosu Ryu versions of the kata. So, you might end up a tad confused and flub your next grading, say. Having said that, I would still familiarize yourself with the kata, even the ones from other styles, as it will help broaden your perspectives about your own karate and karate in general.

As for two books, look here (http://www.karatedo.co.jp/champ/e_books/e_book.html)

Rob

[Gimbo]

Ive learned both versions of bassai-dai and just the shitei version of seinchin.
I know the itosu version of jion and the shitei version looks quite different in the book.

[Rob Alvelais]

:laugh:

I hope Jion looks different! That's a shotokan version.


It was pretty difficult for judges to judge kata from different factions of their own styles and the kata from other styles. One solution was to select a couple of kata from each of the major styles, and agree how it was to be performed in the compulsory rounds. It's much easier for someone to get up to speed on 8 kata, than on 26 from Shotokan, 40+ from Shito Ryu, 12 from Goju, etc. Not to mention the variations between the sects. For example, Itosu Kai's Pinan Godan has a jump. Other factions of Shito Ryu don't.

So, the powers that be (were?) selected two kata from Goju, two from Shotokan, two from Wado Ryu and two from Shito Ryu. Those became the initial 8 shitei kata.


Ostensibly, the hope was that with only 8 kata, the judges would be able to get up to speed on them and separate out the best from the rest of the competitors for the free selection rounds of kata competion, without style or organizational bias.

Some years later, the powers tha be selected two more from each of the 4 styles and now we have 16 shitei kata.

What typically happens is that the shito ryu practitioners perform the Shito ryu kata from the Shitei list. And the Shotokan practitioners select the Shotokan kata from the list. The competitions were set up such that even though Shotokan has a Bassai Dai, ONLY the Shito Ryu Bassai Dai was allowed in the Shitei rounds. Similarly, althout shito ryu has a Jion, only the Shotokan Jion was allowed in the shitei rounds.


The shitei kata are

Shotokan: Jion, Kanku Dai, Enpi, Kanku Sho
Wado Ryu: Chinto, Seishan, Niseishi, Kushanku
Goju Ryu: Saifa, Seipai, Seisan, Kururunfa
Shito Ryu: Bassai Dai, Seienchin, Nipaipo, Matsumura Rohai.

Only these versions these kata were allowed in the shitei rounds of competition in the WKF/JKF/etc...

Does that clear things up for you a little?

Rob

Ive learned both versions of bassai-dai and just the shitei version of seinchin.
I know the itosu version of jion and the shitei version looks quite different in the book.

[Gimbo]

Thankyou that clears up a lot of things.