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ARIS
19th November 2005, 23:34
What techniques should be the right thing to teach to kids under 14 years old to make sure that no damage may be done in a fight among children that may occur at school etc. We are talking about Grappling techniques... Only throws and hold-downs. No submissions? No chokes? No locks? opinions..?

thanks in advance.

Budoka 34
19th November 2005, 23:47
In our programs the youth focus on escapes and hold downs. We spend some time working stand up controls, turn overs, etc....

Simple throws, trips and sweeps are taught in line with the above.

ARIS
20th November 2005, 10:08
What do you think is the best age for a young kid to learn submissions? Over 12 years old? 14? 15?

Budoka 34
21st November 2005, 02:53
In our Dojo it depends on the child.

If the student has demonstrated appropriate safety and dedication he/she may start with basic extremity bars and locks between 12 and 14 years.

We do have a few younger, but they are very mature students. Much more so than myself. :p

BTW Aris, please sign your posts with your real full name per the use agreement.

ARIS
25th November 2005, 22:34
ok i think the Signature is on...

MarkF
30th November 2005, 11:22
Originally posted by Aris
We are talking about Grappling techniques... Only throws and hold-downs. No submissions? No chokes? No locks? opinions..?

Yes, you answered your own question. If it is a judo class, no strangle holds nor joint techniques. A few small joint techniques involving fingers/thumbs can be taught to younger ones, but only to those who have shown responsability in keeping such things in the dojo. Otherwise, absolute minimum is usually sixteen or seventeen in the judo class. In BJJ classes, absolutely no joint or strange holds. I do not know if there is an express rule against it below a certain age, but if not, there probably should be.

Believe me, kids are just not ready to take control of their emotions at a young age and believe it won't hurt others their age. I am here as example number one of that very thing, even after being taught some basics due to my "maturity level" I still tried them on kids at school. Pins and throws only, and the throws should be those heavy on basics with ukemi being the major technique encouraged.

In a judo dojo registered to a proper local yudanshakai and legitimate national/state organization (USJI, USJF, USJA only), there are age limits for using certain waza in shiai and randori. These limits are expected outside the dojo, as well, and why they should not generally be taught until young adulthood. There are exceptions but they should not be individual ones.


Mark

Rogier
30th November 2005, 11:30
In our Dojo it depends on the child.

If the student has demonstrated appropriate safety and dedication he/she may start with basic extremity bars and locks between 12 and 14 years.


I've got a class of students from 12 onwards and I always try to use extreme caution with locks and bars. Remember that most of them are still growing, I prefer not to stress joints and stuff at this age.

MikeWilliams
30th November 2005, 12:44
[/b]If it is a judo class, no strangle holds nor joint techniques. A few small joint techniques involving fingers/thumbs can be taught to younger ones, but only to those who have shown responsability in keeping such things in the dojo. Otherwise, absolute minimum is usually sixteen or seventeen in the judo class. In BJJ classes, absolutely no joint or strange holds. I do not know if there is an express rule against it below a certain age, but if not, there probably should be.

Exactly right.

I guess the emphasis with kids should be mainly on ukemi, escapes, and counters. Groundwork randori can still be good fun - just emphasise working for position (BJJ) or for the hold-down (Judo)

(I only separated those two for the sake of showing the different emphasis of BJJ/Judo, btw. Not because they're mutually exclusive!)

Budoka 34
30th November 2005, 15:41
I've got a class of students from 12 onwards and I always try to use extreme caution with locks and bars. Remember that most of them are still growing, I prefer not to stress joints and stuff at this age.

Rogier,

I'm with you here. We have very specific safety rules in place for joint work.
As was said earlier, they mostly focus escapes, position or osaekomi.

rottunpunk
11th December 2005, 12:40
i did judo from when i was about 8 years old-till 18 or 19.

because i was very quick at learning the theory stuff, i was allowed to join in with the senior sessions, and so could do the dan grade theory by the time i was 13 or 14. we only learnt the higher grade stuff in senior classes and were not allowed to do it in junior sessions incase some of the younger kids tried to copy.

depending on the student and how mature they are, id advise not to teach strangles and armlocks in junior classes. the bja syllabus is usefull in what should be taught

to be honest-when i was a kid-i never used judo outside the dojo-apart from the fact that it was instilled upon me every lesson that i shouldnt do so-i found that it doesnt work on other people that dont know the 'judo rules'.

hope this helps.
:p

MarkF
12th December 2005, 11:30
Ms. Bell,

I have found that most every story of self-defense outside the dojo works pretty well -- Even against a bear that went sailing over a cliff after a clever, and probably a little "I'm gonna die so what the hell" in him, he threw the bear with tomo e-nage.

I guess you didn't stay with it long enough to learn that the rules are for playing against other judo players. Outside the dojo, they do just fine, but hey whatta I know, I'm just an old judo player with dreams of getting up later.

Did you use the signature editor for your signature? If you did and it didn't take, please try again, or sign your name manually. It is "Judo Rules" on line, too, especially here. Anyway, I am sure you found more success in using a bokken outside the dojo, right after the constables took you away. There is more call for a sword lady than Yawara Chan these days, I'm sure. :rolleyes:


Mark

rottunpunk
12th December 2005, 16:14
with all due respect mr mod, i stuck with it for over 10 years. if a great big guy comes at a 5'3'' girly with specs, attacks her from behind with a knife, but sinks his weight so she can throw him - is she meant to stop him and say ' wait, step round the front, its not the budo way otherwise, oh yeah, now hold here, and there, legs hip width apart, slightly bent and be nice and relaxed-there thats good, now i can do soenage on you and end it with jujigatame'

nahh me thinks not-all i was trying to say is that as a kid i found it better to pull hair and bite than use trad judo-not that i fought often. and that i was very understanding about when i could and couldnt use strangles and armlocks because it was taught to me proper.

pool cues and the baseball bat behind the bar work quite well as bokken substitutes. but i do iai for further education, not as a self defence.

as for signature-i went back to edit but it wouldnt let me. much apologies about that one
:p

Rogier
13th December 2005, 08:53
thread drift....... try to stay on topic