how much of a workout do you get with aikido? (help a noob choose a MA)

[Axis of Weasel]

first of all i'm new here, and this place is great.

I'm in nyc, no prior experience in any ma, and looking for a ma+dojo

I like the rigorous aspect of Kyokushin Karate, but would also like throws incorporated into what I'm learning. karate in general seems like a hard work out b/c of all the kicking + punching, but aikido seems more about positioning and using your opponents momentum, and thus not as much endurance is needed.

can anybody with experience enlighten me?

(are there any throws in kyokushin karate?)


thx!

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Chris Wren

[kimiwane]

first of all i'm new here, and this place is great.

I'm in nyc, no prior experience in any ma, and looking for a ma+dojo

I like the rigorous aspect of Kyokushin Karate, but would also like throws incorporated into what I'm learning. karate in general seems like a hard work out b/c of all the kicking + punching, but aikido seems more about positioning and using your opponents momentum, and thus not as much endurance is needed.

can anybody with experience enlighten me?

(are there any throws in kyokushin karate?)


thx!

----

Chris Wren

There used to be a place called Bond Street Dojo. It was pretty nice training. Yamada Sensei still teaches in NYC also, I think. His class was a little "harsher" than Bond Street as I recall. One of the big guys at Bond Street had been uchi deshi to Morihei Ueshiba in aikido. Terry Dobson. But he passed away. They had a good thing going there. I think Ellis Amdur trained there some.

As for Kyokushin, it's definitely there.

Mas Oyama trained for some time in daito ryu aikujujutsu with Yoshida Kotaro. I have seen Y. Oyama, in Birmingham, using what we called nagashi tai sabaki, turning the hips to allow the opponent to fall through where we were standing.

I once saw a kyokushin full-contact tournament where one fighter kicked powerfully at the other's head. The target man just dropped his head about three inches. The kicker's foot passed over and he had put so much energy into the kick, his whole body came off the floor when he missed. He flipped and landed on his back on the other side of his target. That was aiki nage in a karate fight. I don't think they teach it as a technique, though.

I think kyokushin focuses on karate technique, kata and sparring with occasional attention to some throwing in self-defense sessions. It's always had the reputation as the most fighting oriented karate, I think.

Try them all and see. But don't forget Chinatown, either.

[Andrew S]

How much of a workout do you get with Aikido?
It all depends on HOW you train. It is NOT a soft option, only the idea of not using strength and the mystical ki seekers tend to have created that image.
That would be like saying "Kyokushin guys are not really good technicians, they're just big oafs who fight with brute strength".

[powerof0ne]

Many others on here could comment more on this but if you study Kyokushin you will learn some judo throws...at least the Kyokushin classes that I have witnessed. Mas Oyama had a judo background as most of us know.
Look at the styles that have broke away from Kyokushin; Enshin, Ashihara, Daido Juku...and look at the competitions these styles throw and you will see many throws/takedowns/sweeps.
Of course Kyokushin does focus more on striking, I don't think anyone would try to argue that.

[GTO]

Aikido is a good workout, particularly for the legs and midsection. In four months training at the Shobukan in D.C., I went from skinny nothing to stocky and wiry. My legs expanded so much that I got stretch marks.

It will depend on how much and how rigorously you yourself train, of course. I would show up early to practice my ukemi (breakfalls), and would sometimes work out a bit before class with the other early birds, in addition to training at least three or four times a week.