The relevance of the Katana today

[gr455h0pp3r]

Im interested in Japanese Katana training, but what good is it these days ?

Ryan.

[Light Samurai]

Discplining the spirit. Concetration. And belive it or not, some sword technqiues can also be considered effective with empty hand. (Ie. Blocks a shomen uchi attack to the head with a sword, as well as bloking it when someone attacks with his hand, you can block it worth your hand, make a fist, and follow up.)

Note that if your worried about the "effectiveness" in today's world - Buy a gun, take a self-defense course, and MA last resort. The Martial Arts do help with self-defense, but they also have a secondaty goal. So, if you want a quick way to fight well, self defense courses are good.

Peace.

[MikeE]

I agree on how tachiwaza can be mimicked effectively open hand.

Plus, if you are ever attacked and a stick, 2X4, or baseball bat is nearby. You probably could do a fair amount of damage if needed.

[Light Samurai]

I agree on how tachiwaza can be mimicked effectively open hand.

Plus, if you are ever attacked and a stick, 2X4, or baseball bat is nearby. You probably could do a fair amount of damage if needed.
Actually, Jo training might work better for that, but take what you can get.

Peace.

[Brian Owens]

Im interested in Japanese Katana training, but what good is it these days?
There are many good reason for taking up the sword.

From a physical standpoint it's good excercise, helps build hand-eye-brain coordination, cardiorespiratory endurance, musculoskeletal tone, etc.

From a mental standpoint it's good for building concentration, relaxation, spatial awareness, etc.

From a historical standpoint it's a link to the past; a living/moving textbook of Japanese history and culture.

I put its self-defense aspects at the bottom of the list, but -- yes -- there's that, too.

The key, of course, is to get proper training from a legitimate teacher. Frauds abound, and even among those whose intentions are good, the ability to do karate or other empty-hand arts well doesn't translate into an abilty to do proper swordsmanship (although there are good teachers who do both).

Starting with a major organization's schools is a good way to ensure proper instructor's credentials: Iaido with MJER or MSR links, or as an adjunct to a Kendo dojo (Seitei Iai); Kendo with an IKF affiliated group (AUSFK in the USA, CKF in Canada, etc.); and so on.

This is not to say that other schools can't be good, but finding qualified teachers of -- for example -- Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, Katori Shinto Ryu, Nitten Ichi Ryu, and so on can be risky because the true dojo of such arts are few and far between. If you live close to one, consider yourself lucky. (This forum can be a great help in separating the "rice" from the "chaf.")

HTH.

[GTO]

As Diane Skoss so aptly pointed out, you get a vastly superior sense of ma-ai (distance, timing, etc.) from koryu weapons training. I myself feel my unarmed work has improved noticeably since I began to study kenjutsu.

[Dave Neeley]

Because chicks dig it.

[yoj]

Plus, chicks dig scars, so this way, its like doubly effective!

[kongoshin]

One thing about the sword arts (at least koryu) is that most of them can be practiced until you get very old.

[gr455h0pp3r]

OK so the living text book thing is cool, but you can get all that stuff and more from kung fu.
So why the sword ?

[GTO]

The sword, above all arts, has come to represent tradition, martial virtue, skill in combat, and all that good stuff. To be quite honest, however, that's a question you have to answer for yourself. I train in the sword because I admire its history and elegance, and darn it, a nice, balanced Shinkage-ryu bokuto just feels good when you swing it. ;)

[Bill Gallant]

Friendship.
The people I've been training with have become very close to me, like a family really. We enjoy the same foods, movies, TV shows, the JSA, our families all know each other, we look out for one another.

[gendzwil]

After the apocalypse, when everyone else has run out of bullets, I'll be king of my local feifdom due to my l33t sword skillz, and get all the chicks in the chain mail bikinis.

[niten ninja]

You're all forgetting the most important thing in sword arts... you get to play with swords without everyone thinking you're a psycho! What's not to like?

[John Lindsey]

Im interested in Japanese Katana training, but what good is it these days ?

Ryan.

Ryan,

If you have to ask, then you may not go far with the sword. I think it is something you have to really want to do, and not worry about what good it is today. Follow your heart, and try it out. If you enjoy doing it, keep going!

BTW, the New Orleans police were not banning private citizens from having swords, just guns, at least that is how I understood it...

[Brian Owens]

OK so the living text book thing is cool, but you can get all that stuff and more from kung fu.
I agree that you can get all of that from [properly taught and practiced] gung fu, and many other arts.

I disagree that you can get more from gung fu, or any other art. If you feel that way, then I would suggest that you haven't gotten deeply enough into swordsmanship.

[ulvulv]

The most positive about studying japanese swordsmanship, is that you show your high spiritual standard, by pursuing a path of life that leads neither to fame, chicks or money. If done correctly...

[kenkyusha]

The most positive about studying japanese swordsmanship, is that you show your high spiritual standard, by pursuing a path of life that leads neither to fame, chicks or money. If done correctly...
Okay, that's it... you just talked me out of training budo altogether... I thought they'd at least dig the skirt (and the legs in momodachi)... oh no wait, you said correctly? Okay, no worries then.

Be well,
Jigme

[breen]

The most positive about studying japanese swordsmanship, is that you show your high spiritual standard, by pursuing a path of life that leads neither to fame, chicks or money. If done correctly...

Agreed! Unless you happen to end up teaching kenjutsu to moviestars :p

Although, pursuing a path that leads to moral or spiritual superiority may be just as false as the fame and fortune route... but if done for the right reasons I think it will indeed improve your spirit even if only from overcoming a difficult task through perseverence and dedication (like many MAs or skills), I just don't know that this goal would be considered virtuous on it's own (not that this is what you are saying - it's just an aside).

So what would be the right reasons? For me, it's things like:
- Physical Fitness (we do quite a bit of cardio, conditioning and footwork)
- Balance and coordination of large and fine motor skills
- Learning something new and unusual
- Learning something old and traditional

I didn't join for self defence, although I can see where there would be applications, especially related to situational awareness and escape routes. I also didn't join for the coolness factor, although it is pretty cool :D

David Piekny

[Chidokan]

and you get to have some peace and quiet away from the mrs! :D Iai is a solo art... at least that is what I tell her...

[ulvulv]

And for the missus: an evening without a grumpy old fart.(I just speak for myself) ;)

Have you read the "okuden of kendo"?

http://www.st.rim.or.jp/~shimano/doujo/eng/okuden_e.html

conclusion:

Thus, the Okuden of my Kendo secret is "to get along with your wife," and the methodology is "to go to bed with Nemaki." I am not kidding at all. So, please do not take me wrong. If you have any worries about your Kendo, why don't you look at the face of the one who sleeps next to you once again. To be a good couple seems easy, but it also seems very difficult.

[Andrew S]

Odd how in the martial arts we somehow have to justify everything. I mean, no one questions the relevence of kicking a bit of inflated rubber around, caring more about fictional characters on TV than their own family members, or that sharing nationality with a certain athlete somehow makes you better than someone of a different nationality...

The sword is the tool you use to sharpen yourself.

[Chidokan]

yeah, thats true! We must get along, last year she bought me a Japan ticket! And as for nemaki...well that would be telling... ;)
Beware if she turns up for a grading though, she's quicker than the panel and always right about your grade... :eek: Far too many days away over the years at seminars is the problem, she's an armchair iaido and kendo critic who's a little too good for my liking!

[Gakkousei]

The principles of movement and striking in kenjutsu can greatly enhance your ability to inflict a massive amount of damage with a, object such as a bat or broken off mop handle or something of that nature.

Of course Kenjutsu also offers other things. Recreation is a thing for some. And of course you'll have the Japanophiles telling you about the sword being your soul and spiritual attunement and whatnot.

[hyaku]

Of course Kenjutsu also offers other things. Recreation is a thing for some. And of course you'll have the Japanophiles telling you about the sword being your soul and spiritual attunement and whatnot.

Well that perhaps because some of use do live here and that's why we do it.

[CEB]

I'm just curious..... What role does the katana play in the modern Japanese military. What I mean is when I was in Army ROTC a couple of decades ago I was in the university color guard and we practiced D&C with the sabre. The US military still uses the sabre in a ceremonial role. Does the katana play a similar in the modern Japanese Army?

Thanks

[twayman]

Im interested in Japanese Katana training, but what good is it these days ?

Ryan.

Break into my home one night and the relevance of katana training will become all to clear. :p

[jest]

I'm just curious..... What role does the katana play in the modern Japanese military. What I mean is when I was in Army ROTC a couple of decades ago I was in the university color guard and we practiced D&C with the sabre. The US military still uses the sabre in a ceremonial role. Does the katana play a similar in the modern Japanese Army?

Thanks

That's a very interesting question and I hope someone answers it!

I have a sneaking suspicion Nihonto have no ceremonial function in the modern Japanese army. If I'm right, I would guess that price and historical (symbol of WWII military aggression?) reasons are to blame.

[Andrew S]

Does the katana play a similar in the modern Japanese Army?

I'm not sure, when I get back to training (injury!! curses!!) I'll ask the GSDF officer I train with.
However, I have never seen it used in any footage of the self-defence forces here.
The self-defence forces are technically illegal under the constitution (which is why they are not referred to as army, navy and airforce, although they have guns, tanks, ships and planes, go figure) and are desperate to avoid comparison with the Imperial forces. (Take ranks as an example: they are completely different from the Imperial ones). As such, I can't imagine the katana having a place in the modern Japanese military... oops, self-defence forces.

[dbeaird]

I'm not sure, when I get back to training (injury!! curses!!) I'll ask the GSDF officer I train with.
However, I have never seen it used in any footage of the self-defence forces here.
The self-defence forces are technically illegal under the constitution (which is why they are not referred to as army, navy and airforce, although they have guns, tanks, ships and planes, go figure) and are desperate to avoid comparison with the Imperial forces. (Take ranks as an example: they are completely different from the Imperial ones). As such, I can't imagine the katana having a place in the modern Japanese military... oops, self-defence forces.
Swords were dropped from the Japanese military in the early 1960's when it was discovered they were useless against giant radioactive monsters which have formed the primary threat to Japan in the last half century. Tanks and artillery were scheduled for similar treatment, but large cash incentives from American military hardware corporations kept these units in the JSDF despite the massive casualties seen every time Godzilla decides to visit downtown Tokyo.

[Margaret Lo]

Swords were dropped from the Japanese military in the early 1960's when it was discovered they were useless against giant radioactive monsters which have formed the primary threat to Japan in the last half century. Tanks and artillery were scheduled for similar treatment, but large cash incentives from American military hardware corporations kept these units in the JSDF despite the massive casualties seen every time Godzilla decides to visit downtown Tokyo.

Mothra, Rodan also trounced Tokyo, plus that giant turtle - Gamera! Not to mention that 8 headed space dragon.

M

[Andrew S]

On a more serious note, don't forget that the modern police use kendo as both a prerequisite and part of training. In fact, the top competitors in kendo are mostly from the police department.
The reason for choosing kendo is that, like the bayonet training we did in the reserves, it builds fighting spirit and aggression without having to damage your opponent.

[Rain]

If I may just add one more thought about the issue of the use of the sword arts today...
Well, I would only be talking from my own personal experience, but to me the sword is a way to be free.
Shimabokuro-sensei said once, while in a seminar here in Costa Rica: "if you want self defense, get a gun".
With all due respect to everyone, and as a Karate and Kenjutsu practicioner, I dont believe the primary use of martial arts today is self defense. I believe that if you were up against a gun by somebody that wants your wallet, it would be wiser to give that guy your wallet than trying to beat him up.
Sure, eventually one gets into fights, but I dont think thats very common.
For me, martial arts today are practiced to cultivate one`s soul, at least thats my reason. And if somebody thinks that he or she can cultivate its soul better in kung fu than in kenjutsu or another sword art, I would say go with kung fu. But from my point of view, I wouldnt trade my sword studies for anything else in the world.

[Andrew S]

Thank you, Jean. I think you've summed it up well.

[Nuutti Kotivuori]

Like already mentioned by GTO, swordwork improves unarmed combat as well, if done properly. So even if there were absolutely no direct benefit in learning to swing a sword, it works as a training tool for other things.

But obviously, most people who train swinging swords, like swinging swords - and that's reason enough.