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damienmason
1st December 2005, 02:46
Does anyone have any techniques for achieving fudoshin?

Thanks

Damien Mason
1st December 2005, 03:06
Sorry, that was me. I was having some problems logging on, but it's fixed now.

GTO
1st December 2005, 06:53
Train hard for many years. That's the one that seems to work for most people.

Damien Mason
1st December 2005, 22:21
Train at what?

arnold11
2nd December 2005, 19:18
Damien, read "The Unfettered Mind." It contains writings by Takuan Soho on how to practice fudoshin ("immovable"/imperturbable mind) while doing martial arts.

Damien Mason
4th December 2005, 22:08
Thankyou. It's already on my must-read list, so i'll bump it up to the top.

don
5th December 2005, 22:22
Thankyou. It's already on my must-read list, so i'll bump it up to the top.

Actually, I think you'll find Flow in Sports by Susan A. Jackson, Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi more down to earth. Takuan is the classic, but Jackson and Csi, etc. are more useful.


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0880118768/qid=1133821238/sr=8-5/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i5_xgl14/103-1560649-4305430?n=507846&s=books&v=glance

allan
8th December 2005, 00:00
Damien,

Try taking up rock climbing, particularly "trad climbing" and perhaps mountaineering. The level of danger and the need to relax your hold on the old anxiety has been particularly valuable in my experience. It is a roundabout way to learning to embody fudoshin martially but there is not so much risk in martial arts unless you go in for NHB stuff. I regard these practices as a kind of training which seeks to address the relatively peaceful practice and low level of danger for the "martialist' in this day and edge. Military and law enforcement professionals are obviously an exception.

Don't blame me if uyou are maimed or something though. I watched my friend and climbing mentor fall from a cliff and break his back last year.

Regards,

Damien Mason
8th December 2005, 06:23
I'm looking for practical means to achieve fudoshin. Mountain climbing is not practical for me.

kokumo
8th December 2005, 16:54
I'm looking for practical means to achieve fudoshin. Mountain climbing is not practical for me.

Many of the most eminently practical methods don't even reference "fudoshin" as an explicit goal.

Sit. Breath. Observe what happens without grasping or chasing any perception or reaction to perception.

Like weightlifting, once you start adding additional stress to the situation, it's good to have a coach and/or spotter who is further along in the practice than you are.

mech
11th December 2005, 23:50
The action or the thechnique are almost unimportant!!, because we are referring here something that belongs to the state of mind itself-...

To the concept of how we use the mind belongs the success or fail. Because mind cant know the unknown grabing the known as an company...

This is...Just a mind wich is not linked to the past, waiting something to happen, and not tryng to get into something would achieve FUDOSHIN


MECH
CARACAS, VENEZUELA
Cholombo2002@yahoo.com (Chess)

Damien Mason
12th December 2005, 00:03
I believe there is a practical method to achieve an immovable mind. I don't think Fudoshin is something you just stumble upon suddenly after years of martial training.

Perhaps it is, but only an accomplished martial artist can tell me that. Everything else is hearsay.

mech
12th December 2005, 22:51
Stumble... jajajajja No, because Fudoshin had nothing to do with many thousands of repetitions, it just comes when you meet certain mind/body condition.

MECH
Caracas

ichibyoshi
20th December 2005, 04:41
I believe there is a practical method to achieve an immovable mind. I don't think Fudoshin is something you just stumble upon suddenly after years of martial training.

Perhaps it is, but only an accomplished martial artist can tell me that. Everything else is hearsay.

Well how are you going to tell who is an "accomplished martial artist" on an internet forum?

E-budo.com is best utilised as a form of entertainment and distraction. Occasionally it can serve some social good by alerting people to fraudulent practitioners.

What it is not, is an online dojo. You cannot have a "virtual dojo" that produces real results, any more than you can have virtual sex that leads to a pregnancy.

So unfortunately the best answer to so many earnest newbie questions is, "ask your sensei", or "go find a sensei". Not because where into a cult of personality, but because the better part of 1000 years of tradition shows that the only way to learn MA is via "direct transmission outside the scriptures." IOW, you just gotta do it for yourself.

b

Damien Mason
20th December 2005, 04:51
Well how are you going to tell who is an "accomplished martial artist" on an internet forum?

E-budo.com is best utilised as a form of entertainment and distraction. Occasionally it can serve some social good by alerting people to fraudulent practitioners.

What it is not, is an online dojo. You cannot have a "virtual dojo" that produces real results, any more than you can have virtual sex that leads to a pregnancy.

So unfortunately the best answer to so many earnest newbie questions is, "ask your sensei", or "go find a sensei". Not because where into a cult of personality, but because the better part of 1000 years of tradition shows that the only way to learn MA is via "direct transmission outside the scriptures." IOW, you just gotta do it for yourself.

b

You make a good point.

I was trying to indicate that I wasn't interested in people pretending knowledge by spouting a lot of mystical guff. The reason I mentioned something practical is that I think if something it rooted in practicality, you can tell through your own experience if it is effective.

There is a wide range of experienced people on this forum. It's better to ask a question and get no response than not to ask it in the first place.

Dave Humm
27th December 2005, 00:12
Hi Damien, All the best for the New Year.

I don't know what discipline you study however, I found study of Nihonto a very good way of developing high levels of concentration, that said, any form of kata based study where you are not directly influenced by others has pretty much the same effect providing you put the same level of commitment into its practice.

I study and teach Aikikai aikido and stress the importance of fudoshin and the avoidance of suki. Budo is a struggle of the mind and the physical self thus, having a relaxed mind in co-ordination with a relaxed body has helped me enormously to leave the pressures of the normal day outside the dojo.

I have found three specific aspects help to develop a good mindset

1: Mokuso - a good period of time before practice
2: Kata - repeating and re-repeating
3: Juwaza - a minimum of three man randori

Kind regards

Musha
28th December 2005, 04:34
I'm not sure what Fudo shin is my self. Fudo is a Buddhist warrior god (http://www.rinnoji.or.jp/keidai/homotu/past/homotu-pic/fudo-nidoji.JPG). I guess fudo shin is the spirit of this god who is unmovable.

The way to calm your mind is endless kata and suburi. Kata and suburi can become meditation if done correctly, meditation is the calming of the mind so meditation in action is the key to a still mind in kendo. Here is a story of Omori shogen a Buddhist priest who practiced the martial arts.

At age 25, after twenty days of preparation in a secluded mountain temple, Omori Roshi and Onishi Hidetaka began the hyappon keiko, the grueling practice of doing the Hojo a hundred times a day for seven days. Omori Roshi recounts:

We got up at four in the morning, went down the mountain, and bathed in a river. Before breakfast we did the Hojo fifteen times. After that we rested a while then practiced thirty more times. After lunch we rested and did the Hojo fifty-five more times until dusk. We did zazen in the evenings.

By the third day I could shout more loudly and powerfully during practice, but my voice was so hoarse I could not speak at all. At night my body was so hot that I could not sleep. Food would not go down my throat; I had only water and raw eggs. My urine was the color of blood. The arms that held the wooden sword could not be raised. We were resigned to death. I could not go before Yamada Sensei and say, "I failed." Onishi and I got out our notes and letters and burned them all as we prepared to die.

On the fourth day a strange thing happened. The same arms that had difficulty in even holding the wooden sword went smoothly up over my head. As my arms went down, I felt a strength that was not physical coming out of both arms. It felt as if this downward cut extended to the other end of the world.

In this manner, for seven days, we practiced the Hojo a hundred times daily. After the seven days, Yamada Sensei praised me saying, "This is the Muso (No-thought) Style." I was able to cultivate mental strength entirely because of this Hojo.

Eric Hewitt

MCOLBOURNE
3rd November 2006, 22:10
Damien. IMHO Kukomi's advice is very sound indeed.

Go to a man who knows (yes, easier said than done).

Don't read books - they can point you in many different directions and without an experienced teacher who has already 'trodden the path' before you, for lack of better words, you may pursue a course that will take you father and father off track. Fudoshin is something experiential - it cannot be found in a book and reasoned mentally. The more you grasp, the less you receive.

Meditate (again directed by a man who knows).

I hope this aids you in your quest.

Simon Ford-Powell
4th November 2006, 00:33
Never give up - it is so easy, so simple. Do not ever give up!

Unfortunately there are much easier things to do than "never give up" and we instinctively resort to those paths.

practise (at least) Never giving up.



So simple


so hard

Bruce Mitchell
4th November 2006, 04:39
In over twenty years of martial arts practice I have met very few individuals who have fudoshin. Some of them may have an incredible ability to be in "the zone", but very few people are able to take this into their daily lives. Same thing goes for navel contemplaters (unless they practiced in conditions of REAL durress, like under threat of persecution and death). But take a look at your average beat cop, or career soldier, and you will see fudoshin. These are folks who look life in the eye, put their feelings aside and do what has to be done.

If you are going to read, I would suggest starting with Col. Dave Grossman's books (On Killing; On Combat). Or maybe Bruce Siddle's books. There are effective ways to achieve things like "stress inoculation" without putting life and limb on the line.

I would also like to note that reading through the other replies quite a number of people are confusing fudoshin with mushin. I have met plenty of empty minds over the years ;)

trevorg
5th November 2006, 22:46
My opinion for what it is worth is that fudoshin is a state of mind achieved after many, many years of practice, but not a visual goal that you aim for at a specific level.

It is a spiritual thing, totally calm and determined that lets you face your opponent with extreme courage but without going crazy. This is a state that some martial artists (soldiers of war) achieve - a sort of state of grace, but probably only in moments of extreme trauma and danger.

I would like to know more about fudoshin. I think I have experienced it from time to time but I cant call it up at will.

Osu

pgsmith
8th November 2006, 01:00
It seems to me that there are a number of differing ideas about just what constitutes fudoshin. One of the best articles I've read discussing just what fudoshin should be, was written a while back by Stephen Fabian for Furyu ... http://www.furyu.com/archives/issue9/fudoshin.html

That is the model that I strive for.