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Basil1980
9th December 2005, 02:25
I live in Brooklyn, NY and was looking for a traditional Japanese dojo. I have not had any luck finding a Kor Ryu type of training environment/culture. If anyone has had any luck in please let me know. Thanks


B Miller

MarkF
10th December 2005, 13:56
You most likely won't find it that way, either. Koryu dojo are sparse in this country and others, including Japan, and it isn't something one can find and simply join, not if it is the real thing.

If you do happen upon something you believe to be koryu, please post back with data. It takes more than a search to find them, and even if you do, gaining admittance may prove very difficult.


Mark

Basil1980
11th December 2005, 00:13
Are there any suggestions in finding a Kor Ryu dojo? My resources are rather limited. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

B Miller

Jeremy Hulley
11th December 2005, 01:30
Find a Gendai Art that you like...
Judo, Aikido, Kendo...
Get to know some people....
Train for a while..
Ask and listen about koryu..
show that you are a dedicated student...
Take your training seriously but not your self seriously :) thanks neil
Pay atttention
Good Luck

Basil1980
13th December 2005, 15:02
If my desire is to study a Kor Ryu, why then the necessity to study Judo, Kendo or Aikido? I hate to be difficult, but if I already know what I would like study then why the diversion?

B Miller

niten ninja
13th December 2005, 15:53
Every koryu person I've heard of does a gendai art. Alot easier to find, and probably not as different as you think.

Jeremy Hulley
13th December 2005, 16:37
Sorry that I did not make my point more clearly.
By studying a gendai art you will have an opportunity to develop relationships and connections that could lead to koryu arts in your area.
At the least you can establish yourself as a serious student so that you will have a teacher's support when you look to enter a koryu.
I don't know of any Koryu that will allow you in the door without some connection or introduction..

kokumo
13th December 2005, 18:36
Per one of the suggestions above, you might want to check out Bond Street Dojo (www.bondstreet.org) which, while primarily an aikido dojo, also has Muso Shinden Ryu iaido classes on Sunday mornings.

Or you might want to check out Ken-Zen Dojo (www.kenzendojo.com) which, while primarily a gendai kendo and iaido dojo, has a number of senior practitioners involved in koryu arts.

However, as several folks have pointed out, it is fairly unusual (though not entirely unheard of) for students to be admitted to koryu practice without, at a minimum, having studied something else long enough that there's some substantial evidence that you're a sufficiently serious and dedicated student to be worth their while, simply because accepting any new student means investing quite a bit of time.

TomW
13th December 2005, 18:40
You might want to consider learning to spell koryu correctly, it'll go along way to further you cause.

There are eight (make that ten) examples of the correct spelling available in this thread for your edification.

Sochin
13th December 2005, 18:44
The Dai Nippon Butoku Kai (http://personal.picusnet.com/butoku/honbu.html) has both Koryu and Gendai styles under its umbrella.

See also E-Budo.com > Koryu Bujutsu > Jujutsu > Japanese Budo Society at http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11910

The International division is in Virginia and they can tell you if there is a school near you. They may be an entry into Koryu arts.

MarkF
14th December 2005, 08:44
The International division is in Virginia and they can tell you if there is a school near you. They may be an entry into Koryu arts.

I would have a hard time trusting any koryu with a connection through that group.

Just to be even more argumentative, they actually copyrighted the name of "Dai Nippon Butoku Kai" whose relationship to the original founded in 1895 is also suspect.

They *copyrighted* the name that includes "Dai Nippon" which in the post WWII world is not exactly a nice way of saying it. Zen Nihon Butokukai would have been better.
********

Go play judo or aikido for a minimum of two years, or the time it takes you to get to 1-dan. It shows character not to mention some proof that you really do take your training seriously.

You just cannot walk into a koryu dojo and say "I want to sign up." It doesn't work like that.

kokumo
14th December 2005, 16:23
Japanese Swordsmanship Society: http://www.ny-jss.org/

An umbrella organization that includes both gendai and koryu arts in iaido, jodo, and naginata.

Shambhala Meditation Center of NY offers training in Kyudo:

http://ny.shambhala.org/disciplines.html

As other folks have pointed out, the bottom line is that if you find a solid gendai school with senior practitioners, you will likely find some people who are involved in koryu of one kind or another.

The process of becoming involved in koryu is different in almost every case, but you should be aware that as you are making inquiries and evaluating your alternatives, you are also being evaluated.

Good luck,

FL

47th ronin
14th December 2005, 21:01
I live in Brooklyn, NY and was looking for a traditional Japanese dojo. I have not had any luck finding a Kor Ryu type of training environment/culture. If anyone has had any luck in please let me know. Thanks


B Miller

If you can't find it, how do you know it's what you want? :rolleyes:

niten ninja
14th December 2005, 22:10
Koryu.com are good at marketing?

ChrisMoon
16th December 2005, 07:21
You just cannot walk into a koryu dojo and say "I want to sign up." It doesn't work like that.

I agree with Mark says here but it does not always work that way. I did that very thing with koryu by just showing up and coming back the next week. Two different schools. With zero experience in anything else. With koryu I have learned that everything is case by case.

Oda
18th December 2005, 11:46
I must say that haven't found koryu arts to be very exclusive here in Japan. I have only visited two legitimate koryu dojos, but in both places practitioners were very friendly and welcomed me. Nobody asked what I budo have I done before or what rank I currently possess. In both cases people were just happy that a gaijin shows interest in their art and invited me to join.

I think koryu arts are exclusive only in a way that they are not known to public. Koryu is not as popular as karate or kendo and most japanese have never heard of koryu so these arts don't have many newcomers. Really exclusive koryu has propably faded away after Meiji restoration and any koryu ryu-ha living in modern era is just happy to have new students to continue the tradition.

Moses Colon
19th December 2005, 03:11
Hello fellow martial artist try this link i believe they are teaching shinkage ryu in new york city good luck!http://www.shinkageryu.us/pages/1/index.htm
I stand Last samurai
Osu !!!

Hattori
19th December 2005, 03:24
I don't know of any Koryu that will allow you in the door without some connection or introduction.

Rubbish. A complete falacy. Naturally you need to show an avid interest and dedication, but the koryu schools are mostly very encouraging of non-Japanese joining in.

MarkF
19th December 2005, 09:30
Rubbish. A complete falacy. Naturally you need to show an avid interest and dedication, but the koryu schools are mostly very encouraging of non-Japanese joining in.


While I agree with Chris' comment that I oversimplified the matter, I wouldn't call it rubbish, either. Certainly, there are many just like I described, and there are others which do not fall into that description. To be even more picky, I said "I do not know of any..."

That does not mean I am completely without experience in the area, as I was involved with what today would be called "a study group," in the latter 1960s. It took a lot of interest to get into that group not to mention validation that I had indeed the years of kodokan judo I had at the time. It didn't last long, but it did give me a little experience.

It was an oversimplification and definitely should have been worded differently.


Mark

Budd
19th December 2005, 19:07
Based on my small experiences with this type of training, I still think that what Mr. Little wrote below is excellent and definitely bears repeating.


The process of becoming involved in koryu is different in almost every case, but you should be aware that as you are making inquiries and evaluating your alternatives, you are also being evaluated.
FL

jonesm20
19th December 2005, 21:43
In my experience it is more about answering the question "Is this guy an a-hole?" If not, you're probably in.

Basil1980
20th December 2005, 15:51
Quote
You might want to consider learning to spell koryu correctly, it'll go along way to further you cause.

There are eight (make that ten) examples of the correct spelling available in this thread for your edification.
__________________
Tom Wharton
Kodokan Aikido, puttin' the harm in harmony



There are a number of things wrong with this statement. Most glaring would be the use of "you cause" as opposed to "your cause." You may want to look into studying the most dangerous art of all, the English language. “The pen is mightier than the sword.”

I also take offense to your signature, “Aikido putting the harm in harmony.” This oxymoron lends insight on how serious you are about your training. Aikido is the way of harmony and taking light of your school's core principal lets me know the type of attitude that you bring to the mat.


Quote
Go play judo or aikido for a minimum of two years, or the time it takes you to get to 1-dan. It shows character not to mention some proof that you really do take your training seriously.

You just cannot walk into a koryu dojo and say "I want to sign up." It doesn't work like that.
__________________
Mark F. Feigenbaum


I should have stated earlier that I have six years of training in traditional Japanese Jujitsu. I know how to throw, take an ukemi, and tie a hakama. I know a little iaido and several cuts. I am not a novice and was looking to find some resources in Brooklyn. Studying for two years and receiving a black belt is no prize. Thanks to everyone for their input.


Basil Miller

TomW
20th December 2005, 18:35
Quote

There are a number of things wrong with this statement. Most glaring would be the use of "you cause" as opposed to "your cause." You may want to look into studying the most dangerous art of all, the English language. “The pen is mightier than the sword.”

Point taken:
You may want to spell the word correctly, it'll go a long way to further your cause.
There are now over twenty examples of the correct spelling availible in this thread for your edification.



Quote
I also take offense to your signature, “Aikido putting the harm in harmony.” This oxymoron lends insight on how serious you are about your training. Aikido is the way of harmony and taking light of your school's core principal lets me know the type of attitude that you bring to the mat.


Basil Miller

Lends insight just like your use of Kor ryu :rolleyes:
Take all the offense you like, it's free just like the advice around here.

Neil Yamamoto
20th December 2005, 20:54
Let me see here.

So Basil you studied a traditional jujutsu art for 6 years? Which one? I'm curious since the way you phrased things to start, it sounded just like a novice. No offense intended, but if it's a traditional jujutsu, you were probably in a pretty good place.

If you want Japanese cultural things to complement that, there are a ton of them in the NY area. Some crap, some good. Get some shoe leather going and check them out. Doing a search on e-budo will give you lots of places to start looking. Use the search function, it is your friend.

Now, what got me going on this was probably cold med influenced, but Basil's "I take offense..." line to Tom Wharton. Usually, when someone takes offense to an art they don't even practice, it's usually a good sign they don't even know what the hell they are talking about in any martial art.

Now, to take the heat off Tom W,(who has more than double your time in training Basil) how about these for aikido taglines. I've given credit to where these came from. Feel free to be offended. You should have been there at a seminar where one of the students only had his left arm. Bernie calls him up to demonstrate and asks the guy if he's left or right handed. Even he didn't get offended by that.

More Ki, less dough (Seattle School of Aikido)
Peace through violence upon others (Bernie Lau -50 years in training)
Passive Aggressive Grudge Fest (Emily Dolan -15+ in training I think)
Sometime Aikido makes you sad (Leduc - Canadian aikido instuctor) You can buy a shirt with this on Cafe Press.
That was some good aikido. Too bad we are not doing aikido here(me!)

Course what do I know. I'm just a lousey modern day made up crap teacher and my students are unwashed heathens. But some of them have ties to Japanese family arts, maybe not kor yu,(misspelled on purpose) but close enough.

Neil "Who's not sure why he posted this" Yamamoto
neilyamamoto@comcast.net

Walker
20th December 2005, 21:07
"Harm in harmony"?
I'll attest that Tom "You have a serious down component in you aikido" is sorta dangerous. He even moonlights with some of that there koryu stuff for real like. :smilejapa

Neil, chuck the cold meds -- scotch an aspirin! :toast:

DDATFUS
20th December 2005, 21:26
I remember my aikido sensei giving us long talks on the subject of gentleness, peacefullness, and restraint. Usually those talks would be followed by me hitting the mat at a very high speed with my arm wrenched into a painful position. "Putting the harm in harmony" is one of the most appropriate descriptions of aikido that I've ever heard.

Joseph Svinth
22nd December 2005, 02:47
Neil -- You posted because, according to David Kemlo's definition, you'll never be invited to join a koryu.

Green_Dreads
22nd December 2005, 03:27
I can sympathise with the interest in koryu.

I practised a Gendai style of Western jujutsu for several years, not really aware of the background of that style. As sport jujutsu became the focus of the dojo I began getting put-off - after all, I didn't pay £4 three times a week to train relentlessly in Muai Thai and Judo crossed over, and that's a fairly good description of the style of sport jujutsu my a the time dojo was practising.

It was the history that was the final shove to make me explore my interest in aikido. When I found out it was a 'gendai' style, a lot of things made sense, and I became interested in 'koryu' budo. Unfortunately to this day, I have been unable to train in koryu jujutsu or kenjutsu. I have however found a good iaido sensei and continued down the Aikikai aikido path. So I suppose I'm just repeating what everyone else said, find a gendai style to train it, get to know budo, and find contacts. Good luck. :D