Moved from Sword Arts. This is Karate or Kenbu linked [Archive]

gmanry

16th December 2005, 02:19

It looks like the woman doing the tachi side is holding the sword with the blade facing back towards her.

His kamae in the first picture is similar to ihen no kamae of the kukishin ryu bojutsu, but that is all I can say about that. The bojutsu on their homepage looks "dead." Though some of it looks similar to things I have seen, it looks static and seems to lack something in its presentation.

The man is Shiro Shintaku headmaster of the Ten Shin Ichi Ryu, which appears to be a bit of a mish mash of different things that have very little in common with each other from the looks of their website.

To my eye, their iai looks funny and their karate pictures look strange as well, but it is hard to tell much from pictures.

Steve Delaney

16th December 2005, 02:27

Never seen anything like it at any of the koryu embutaikai I have attended hosted by either the Kobudo Shinkokai or Kyokai, nor with the smaller non-affilliated koryu embu. (Mind you I was only living in Japan for 7 1/2 years - A shorter time than I had intended.)

At embu, the order of the day has almost always been, montsuki & hakama, keikogi, or in regards to Yoshin-ryu Naginatajutsu, furisode kimono.

Very strange. Especially the kamae used.

Steve Delaney

16th December 2005, 02:35

I would say just a Karate group..Interested in other things..Or perhaps have members that train in other things..Who knows?
The Naginata postures and some of the other pictures would have led me to conclude some thing theatrical..But then this turned up..

Kenbu methinks.

Shiro Shintaku's biography. (http://www.tenshinichiryu.com/founder.htm)

14 years under Oyata Taika sensei? We have a member on the forum who is a member of Oyata sensei's school who can verify this.

To add, the iai looks very odd.

One of their links leads to something called the "Kodo Butokukai", something I have never heard of, but they seem to have two Japanese teachers in their number for yearly seminars.

Kodo Butokukai website (http://www.kodo.org/index2.htm)

Kodo Butokukai Kodosai masters list (http://www.kodosai.org/masters.php)

nicojo

16th December 2005, 18:04

I'm thinking it may be a sort of kenbu group. The man with the bowl and spear is performing a dance based on a famous story, "Kuroda Bushi."

The story is commonly acted both in more refined kenbu and in traditional dances or folk-singing. The hero was Mori Tahei who was challenged by his lord, a leader of the Kuroda clan, to drink sake. Tahei won a sort of contest and was given a famous spear. I believe this spear is on display in Fukuoka: Meisoo Nippongo (http://www.hiroshima-cdas.or.jp/home/ted/epage18.html). I've seen a gallery catalog, though I didn't make it to the museum when I was there. The spear is quite beautiful. Read here for a bit more on the story and some performances of the song, though I believe we use a different song: Kuroda Bushi (http://www.komuso.com/pieces/Kuroda_Bushi.html)

Our style of Kenbu has this dance, and I've seen seniors perform/practice it, though it is beyond my level.

The first picture w/ naginata is likely a kenbu dance: it's not unusual to wear these sorts of costumes when one is portraying a famous figure. Perhaps it is Benki? One of our dances about Kato Kiyomasa has a brief step similar to that, but w/ a spear. Don't fret people, it is less about "combat effectiveness" and more about looking like Hachiman...

nicojo

16th December 2005, 18:10

Anyhow, that guy at least is in Kenbu for sure, though it's impossible to know which ryu. From their first page:
We are a traditional Karate organisation with no interest in Sport Karate, however, we encourage our members to train in other traditional Okinawan/Japanese arts as we believe that if you train in other arts and Ryu (styles) - you learn more about how and why your own art/style works. Our function is to promote and propagate the true essence of the art and preserve the Okinawan/Japanese heritage of Karate and Kobudo.It's unclear, but perhaps this means chado, kenbu, etc. as well as other styles of budo.

Now lest anybody get any ideas, I'm neither defending nor supporting their use of kenbu; I don't really care, though I'd like to know what their lineage is and where they practice. I think their style of Karate speaks for itself--I sure can't say anything about it.
---
Heck, you see these guys all the time in shops over there: buy it here? (http://www.b-zenjapan.com/03/bzj04.phtml?shop_id=62&goods_id=9)

nicojo

16th December 2005, 18:36

Wait a minute...Sorry, but senbu isn't a combative art, it is a performative art:
http://www.tenshinichiryu.com/senbu.htm (http://www.tenshinichiryu.com/senbu.htm) . Someone seems to confuse it with tessenjutsu...Many bells ringing for me. We never have that sort of "confusion."

Well I can say a bit more, but I'll stop there.

Steve Delaney

16th December 2005, 19:27

Hmm, did you notice that the photo sections just seem to be taken on a tourist trip, with no actual serious training photos taken in Japan? That rings some bells with me.

Also, look at the training photos section cache titled : 2005 TSIR Seminar.

George Palruski is there! Welcome back Mr. "Shin Tenshin Shin'yo-ryu!!!"

I think we should move this to baffling budo ASAP.

nicojo

17th December 2005, 01:37

Well I don't know. The trip could have just been a sort of culture thing since the "doshu" is based in Maryland. It's not like there is a home dojo for their style in Japan since it is definitly made up by him.

I guess I just thought it was fairly honest with what it's about until the senbu thing. By what I know of senbu, that just is not right and it shouldn't be confused with tessenjutsu. And it would be better, if I were the web-master, if the kenbu pics were so marked since it is somewhat misleading, or at least some people may think they will learn actual naginata/yari techniques! I'd be interested to know what ryu the kenbu is from; some of you may not know that kenbu is taught through a ryu system, like koryu, chado, etc.

Now it makes me wonder where the iai is from. But since I'm unlikely to find myself in Maryland in need of a teacher, I'll drop it.

Looks like there is supposed to be a sort of training session in Phoenix! I could check it out, but there is no contact info. I don't really have much expertise in this sort of thing anyway; I'll leave it to you guys, heh.

Charles Mahan

17th December 2005, 02:25

But isn't Shindo Ryu some form of Aikijujutsu? http://www.shindoryu.com

:)

Steve Delaney

17th December 2005, 02:32

Well I don't know. The trip could have just been a sort of culture thing since the "doshu" is based in Maryland. It's not like there is a home dojo for their style in Japan since it is definitly made up by him.

Well since the "Doshu" hails from the Wakayama region, why aren't there any photos of him training with his teachers in budo? Why are the photos all just landscape shots? It's kind of odd to say the least

"Doshu" also claims to have trained with Oyata Taika. If I were one of his students I'd be proud to put up such photos, unless there is something amiss.

Looks like there is supposed to be a sort of training session in Phoenix! I could check it out, but there is no contact info. I don't really have much expertise in this sort of thing anyway; I'll leave it to you guys, heh.

Kem, look up George Palruski on e-budo's search function, you'll find a ton of stuff. None of it good.

rottunpunk

18th December 2005, 13:21

pretty hakama. very festive looking.
i can make your naginata fit scotty-where dya want trimming the knees or just a snip at the ankles-hehe
:p

chizikunbo

8th March 2006, 22:48

Well since the "Doshu" hails from the Wakayama region, why aren't there any photos of him training with his teachers in budo? Why are the photos all just landscape shots? It's kind of odd to say the least

"Doshu" also claims to have trained with Oyata Taika. If I were one of his students I'd be proud to put up such photos, unless there is something amiss.

Kem, look up George Palruski on e-budo's search function, you'll find a ton of stuff. None of it good.

Hello everyone. Shintaku Doshu is my instructor. He is from Wakayama Japan, and now lives in Maryland. I live in Kansas City, but Sensei comes down every month for 5 days to train with his students here.
I am not for sure about the naginata stuff but I have heard that this is cerimonial/dance. The women is his wife Mrs. Shintaku, she is a certified Onoe-Ryu dancer. Doshu did train with Taika Oyata for 14 years. He gained a Nanadan (7th dan) from him. Doshu holds him in a very, very high regard. However political, or personal, I am not in a position to go into details Shintaku Sensei left the Ryu Te Renmei (or Zenkoku Ryukyu Kempo Karate Kobudo Renmei) back in 1998. He has a 4th dan in Goju ryu. in Japan he was a student of Hikitsuchi (Michio?) Hanshi, a 10th dan student of O'sensei Ueshiba. For pictures look under the Photo's page then in training photos then in then click on the thumbnail with Doshu seated with Hikitsuchi Hanshi.
Doshu also holds a 4th dan in Iaido (Eishin ryu I think, but it was gained under hikitsuchis Hanshis direction as well. I dont recall Doshus rank in Aikido.
As far as the Parulski thing goes, I dont know what that was all about and dont care to. I think Doshu heard of him through Stephen Grayston (shindoryu.org) and invited him to teach at his training camp he holds yearly in maryland. To my knowledge parulski has not been invited back. Many training photos are in the Phots section. I hope you enjoy them. If you have questions you can email me at ryukyukempo @ gmail.com if you would like to get into touch with Doshu Shintaku to ask questions yourself, he is very friendly, so you could write a letter or call the Ten Shin Ichi Ryu office I suppose. Doshu does not do email really.
If you want to know what he is really about you could also visit his dojo in Maryland,m feel free to email me with questions I perfer email over PM.
Thanks!
--Josh
and oh some one mentioned a Ryu Te practicioner on this forum, his name is Tashi Jim Louge (9th dan) he is Taika Oyatas most senior student, and lives in South Carolina. His username is "kenpukan" his website is www.kushu.com Louge-Tashi is also very friendly, and a very kind man.
Yours in the arts,
--Joshua

hyaku

8th March 2006, 23:38

Well...

1.Tracing ones lineage back to the Hieke clan baffles me. There was a similar thread on another forum with claims of being a direct descendant to Oda Nobunaga. I can trace my lineage and a coat of arms back to the Battle of Bloodmoor but that does make me a knight. Being a yoshi does not make me samurai either!

2. Kenbu is....... Kenbu. One of the HNIR members is a Kenbu no sensei. Some of what they do looks better than some iai I have seen. Nevertheless it's kenbu. The bu is from Buyo as in dance and not the bu in Budo.

I cant see any relevant certification that relates this to sword arts, so I will move it to karate. :)

RobertRousselot

9th March 2006, 06:49

Well since the "Doshu" hails from the Wakayama region, why aren't there any photos of him training with his teachers in budo? Why are the photos all just landscape shots? It's kind of odd to say the least

1) "Doshu" also claims to have trained with Oyata Taika. If I were one of his students I'd be proud to put up such photos, unless there is something amiss.

1) Well me little Leprechaun you are right, there is something amiss. Mr. Shiro was booted out of my teacher’s association, and seems to have bumped himself up to 9th dan and taken on the title of “Doshu”. Cute. :rolleyes:

1) Hello everyone. Shintaku Doshu is my instructor. He is from Wakayama Japan, and now lives in Maryland. I live in Kansas City, but Sensei comes down every month for 5 days to train with his students here.
2) However political, or personal, I am not in a position to go into details Shintaku Sensei left the Ryu Te Renmei (or Zenkoku Ryukyu Kempo Karate Kobudo Renmei) back in 1998.
--Joshua

1) LMAO.
Josh,
You told me your mom wouldn’t let you train because she hates martial arts (religious reasons wasn’t it?) and you said the short time when you did train was only once every couple of months.
Many of your previous posts were constructed in a way that lead people to think you were connected to Mr. Oyata in some way.
You are not.
You associate with several folks that were kicked out of Mr. Oyata’s association for misconduct. Any connection you think you might have is indistinguishable at best.

2) NO, Shiro was BOOTED out of the Association for something he did.
You have posted more than a few things about Mr. Oyata, his teachings, his lineage, etc that I have taken you to task on. This matter seems to be yet another.

Well...

1.Tracing ones lineage back to the Hieke clan baffles me. There was a similar thread on another forum with claims of being a direct descendant to Oda Nobunaga. I can trace my lineage and a coat of arms back to the Battle of Bloodmoor but that does make me a knight. Being a yoshi does not make me samurai either!

2) I cant see any relevant certification that relates this to sword arts, so I will move it to karate. :)

1) My wife can trace her linage back to the Emperor of Japan. Their family temple has been in the same spot for about 600+ years,(the mountain it sits on bears their family name) in fact Nobunaga actually tried to burn it down, the burn marks are still there. Does my wife’s family consider themselves part of the Imperial family? Hell no. In fact I tease her and tell her she has Korean blood. (some of you in Japan will get that one)
2) Argh…..how about baffling budo instead of Karate?

Steve Delaney

9th March 2006, 11:31

Argh…..how about baffling budo instead of Karate?

Actually, yeah I agree, this belongs in baffling/bad budo.

nicojo

9th March 2006, 13:27

Actually, yeah I agree, this belongs in baffling/bad budo. But then Hyaku would have to deal with it again!

Steve Delaney

9th March 2006, 14:15

But then Hyaku would have to deal with it again!

Yes, but it's not really germaine to JSA or Karate, it has been revealed to be baffling budo, simple as that.

chizikunbo

11th March 2006, 13:56

Josh,
You told me your mom wouldn’t let you train because she hates martial arts (religious reasons wasn’t it?) and you said the short time when you did train was only once every couple of months.
Many of your previous posts were constructed in a way that lead people to think you were connected to Mr. Oyata in some way.
You are not.
You associate with several folks that were kicked out of Mr. Oyata’s association for misconduct. Any connection you think you might have is indistinguishable at best.

2) NO, Shiro was BOOTED out of the Association for something he did.
You have posted more than a few things about Mr. Oyata, his teachings, his lineage, etc that I have taken you to task on. This matter seems to be yet another.

Rousselot Sensei,
I am not going to get into a mud slinging contest, but I train with many people pretty regularly now, (yes it was religious reasons btw, she is a Jehovahs Wittness, I am not) not that it is at all relevent to the conversation.
I mostly train in Tang Soo Do (MDK), but I do study from Shintaku Sensei,
Wells Sensei, Amor Sensei, and several others. It is really none of my buisness of the doings of the Ryu Te association, you are correct I AM NOT A MEMBER, and I HAVE NEVER BEEN A MEMBER. Yes I was considering it at one time, but it did not work out, schedual etc.

I have nothing but respect for MANY people withen the Oyata Shin Shu Ho and the Ryu Te Renmei, men like Tashi Jim Louge, and Kyoshi Stark. I have tried to sort through the politics, and have heard stories on both sides, and its not worth it. Kind of like making argument on the net, its not worth my time, and I have better things to do, like train!
Have a nice day,
--Josh

RobertRousselot

11th March 2006, 21:21

Rousselot Sensei,

1) I am not going to get into a mud slinging contest..../~/.... I have tried to sort through the politics, and have heard stories on both sides, and its not worth it. Kind of like making argument on the net, its not worth my time, and I have better things to do, like train!
Have a nice day,
--Josh

1) Well it seems as if it is worth your time since you continually post information on that subject and have asked me about it in the past on more than one occasion.
As for “politics”….there are none. Two of the folks you mentioned were “kicked out” of Mr. Oyata’s Assoc. for things they had done. (for what might be called "ethics violations") That is a fact, no politics involved.
I have nothing to gain by telling you this.
The only political part is when one of those members you mentioned trash talks a member (Mr. L) that actually left for personal reasons and wasn’t booted as they were. You know which one I am talking about because we have discussed it in the past.
In a way I feel sorry for you because if they are saying they “left on their own” then they are being less than honest with you.

chizikunbo

11th March 2006, 21:42

Dear Rousselot Sensei (Renshi?);
I have done a bit of research into the whole mess, and I just dont have the time and or place to deal with it, I need good Karate, thats it. I respect (highly) a great many people withen the current Ryu Te org. (btw I think you are a student of kyoshi L.) I did not leave him out intentionally I just have had NO contact with him...ever. So I cannot within reason say either way, but I have no problem with anyone really, because well they have done nothing to me. I thought that Shintaku-Sensei did leave on his own? Ah well.
Anyway, I know Mr. L left of his own accord, but I have not and will not associate with any of them again, (long story I would not mind explaining in private email). He is a good tech. man however, I will always give him that, his bunkai and tuite was among the best I have ever viewed or experienced.
Anyway, I am done dicussing this issue in a public forum, so feel free to email or PM If you feel the need ot desire.
Whilst at this point I can not nessicarily agree with ALL of this, I do value your imput.
Regards,
--josh

1) Well it seems as if it is worth your time since you continually post information on that subject and have asked me about it in the past on more than one occasion.
As for “politics”….there are none. Two of the folks you mentioned were “kicked out” of Mr. Oyata’s Assoc. for things they had done. (for what might be called "ethics violations") That is a fact, no politics involved.
I have nothing to gain by telling you this.
The only political part is when one of those members you mentioned trash talks a member (Mr. L) that actually left for personal reasons and wasn’t booted as they were. You know which one I am talking about because we have discussed it in the past.
In a way I feel sorry for you because if they are saying they “left on their own” then they are being less than honest with you.

RobertRousselot

11th March 2006, 22:31

1) Dear Rousselot Sensei (Renshi?);
I have done a bit of research into the whole mess, and I just dont have the time and or place to deal with it, I need good Karate, thats it. I respect (highly) a great many people withen the current Ryu Te org.
2) (btw I think you are a student of kyoshi L.) I did not leave him out intentionally I just have had NO contact with him...ever. So I cannot within reason say either way, but I have no problem with anyone really, because well they have done nothing to me. I thought that Shintaku-Sensei did leave on his own? Ah well.
Anyway, I know Mr. L left of his own accord, but I have not and will not associate with any of them again, (long story I would not mind explaining in private email). He is a good tech. man however, I will always give him that, his bunkai and tuite was among the best I have ever viewed or experienced.
3) Anyway, I am done dicussing this issue in a public forum, so feel free to email or PM If you feel the need ot desire.
Whilst at this point I can not nessicarily agree with ALL of this, I do value your imput.
Regards,
--josh

1) There is no need to use any title to address me since I am not your teacher.
2) That is not the person I was referring to as “Mr. L”.
3) Why? You piped up as if you knew something. Don’t get me wrong I am not trying to be little you but you have followed this same pattern on other forum. Posting replies about Mr. Oyata, members/ex-members of his association, things related to his training, history, etc when you actually don’t have all the facts.
I am not trying to “convert” you or tell you to quite training with the people you are presently training with. Just be aware of all the facts. Both folks you mentioned actually trained with Mr. Oyata and were given rank by him and have some skill. In Shiro’s case I only know about his Karate…his kata looks fairly decent....I am not/was never interested in his sword skill or Aikido so I won’t comment on those aspects. However, I do know when someone is playing the “Asian Card”* and to me it looks as if he is doing just that. Also, considering the fact that he was only a 7th dan in my teacher’s style and a 4th dan in Goju I wonder where and from whom he got his 9th dan. But of course nobody asks.
I also wonder why he is giving out ranks in jujutsu since to the best of my knowledge he has never trained in that art.
(I think I will give out some rank in XXXXX art today....anybody wanna buy some....I'm "Asian" so don't worry the rank is legit. :rolleyes: )

*The “Asian Card” is when an Asian instructor get’s away with saying/claiming/pretending to be all kinds of crap that he knows just would not fly in his own country but that same garbage gets eaten up by non-knowing, gullible westerners.....and nobody questions it no matter how stupid it sounds because he's "Asian" :rolleyes:

chizikunbo

11th March 2006, 22:55

Hello again,
2.) I know who you were referring to (I studied with him) it was bad wording on my account I guess.
3.)No problem, I have been familer with some people and thought I had the facts but did not, in some cases, and you live and learn. I have alot of learning to do in many areas, so I will keep from commenting on these issues unless it is cold hard facts. No offense but I have no intention to stop my study under the people I study from, I only want the karate, none of the crap that comes as a package deal.
I am familer with the afformetioned "Asian Card" its really big in Korean MA world. I am not blindsighted by such nonsense. About the rank to Kevin Pell, dont ask me, I have no clue, I raised an eyebrow too, but its not my buisness, I think rank is crap unless you can back it up, so I dont worry to much about it, show me what you can do and that will earn you my respect, if you are deserving, not what color cloth you keep your dogi closed with!
Anyway, Ill climb down from my soapbox, *hmph..looks like I might need a ladder...lol*
--josh

1) There is no need to use any title to address me since I am not your teacher.
2) That is not the person I was referring to as “Mr. L”.
3) Why? You piped up as if you knew something. Don’t get me wrong I am not trying to be little you but you have followed this same pattern on other forum. Posting replies about Mr. Oyata, members/ex-members of his association, things related to his training, history, etc when you actually don’t have all the facts.
I am not trying to “convert” you or tell you to quite training with the people you are presently training with. Just be aware of all the facts. Both folks you mentioned actually trained with Mr. Oyata and were given rank by him and have some skill. In Shiro’s case I only know about his Karate…his kata looks fairly decent....I am not/was never interested in his sword skill or Aikido so I won’t comment on those aspects. However, I do know when someone is playing the “Asian Card”* and to me it looks as if he is doing just that. Also, considering the fact that he was only a 7th dan in my teacher’s style and a 4th dan in Goju I wonder where and from whom he got his 9th dan. But of course nobody asks.
I also wonder why he is giving out ranks in jujutsu since to the best of my knowledge he has never trained in that art.
(I think I will give out some rank in XXXXX art today....anybody wanna buy some....I'm "Asian" so don't worry the rank is legit. :rolleyes: )

*The “Asian Card” is when an Asian instructor get’s away with saying/claiming/pretending to be all kinds of crap that he knows just would not fly in his own country but that same garbage gets eaten up by non-knowing, gullible westerners.....and nobody questions it no matter how stupid it sounds because he's "Asian" :rolleyes:

RobertRousselot

14th March 2006, 23:16

1)No problem, I have been familer with some people and thought I had the facts but did not, in some cases, and you live and learn. I have alot of learning to do in many areas, so I will keep from commenting on these issues unless it is cold hard facts.

2) No offense but I have no intention to stop my study under the people I study from, I only want the karate, none of the crap that comes as a package deal.
3) I am familer with the afformetioned "Asian Card" its really big in Korean MA world.
4) I am not blindsighted by such nonsense.
5) About the rank to Kevin Pell, dont ask me, I have no clue, I raised an eyebrow too, but its not my buisness,
6) I think rank is crap unless you can back it up, so I dont worry to much about it, show me what you can do and that will earn you my respect, if you are deserving, not what color cloth you keep your dogi closed with!
--josh

1) Well so far it seems you have only associated with the folks that have gotten booted out of the organization. Based on this and the incorrect information you commonly post tells me someone is not being truthful to you.
2) I have never tried to make you change your dojo. As for “crap” well you seem to be involved in it whether you like it or not.
3) You don’t seem to be, since you “claim” to be training with a guy that obviously* seems to be playing the "Asian Card". (*not just to me but others as well). As I have read your posts in the past I can see that your knowledge of things “Asian” is pretty limited.
4) You don’t seem to be as I have stated in #3
5) This is an example of playing the “Asian Card”. Here is an “Asian” guy giving out rank written in Japanese, in an art he doesn’t train in and most likely doesn’t have rank in. I think if it was a photo of Pell getting rank from an Aborigine from Australia it wouldn’t have the same feel to it as getting it from a real live “Asian” Doshu :rolleyes:
6) Obviously your “Doshu” pal doesn’t think so since he bumped himself up a couple of dan ranks and now runs around calling himself “Doshu” :rolleyes:. As for backing it up…..I know there are several folks in Mr. Oyata’s Assoc. that there only fear of training with “Doshu” :rolleyes: would be that they might break him in half. Comparing “Doshu” :rolleyes: to other members of Mr. Oyata's Assoc. there is no way in hell he would qualify as a 9th dan.