View Full Version : Separation of Church & State within Shorinji
Walkman123z
24th December 2005, 04:57
A little background-I've been studying Japanese/Okinawan karate off and on for most of my life (I'm 34). I'm looking at a job in an area where there aren't any dojos for either of the styles I've studied (Shotokan, Uechi-Ryu). It looks like I'm going to have to start over in something new, which I don't mind.
I contacted a guy from another forum in that area and he mentioned there is a Shorinji Kempo school in town (couldn't find a website, tho'). I did a bit of online research, since I hadn't heard of this style before. I like so far what I see of technique and the way both striking and grappling/joint locks are used together.
The question I have is about the spiritual aspect of the art. I read a couple of articles online (from what looked like decent sources) it seems that there is a very heavy spiritual component to the training. Unfortunately, from my basic search, that component doesn't seem to fall in line with my own belief system.
So, how much of Shorinji practice focuses on this aspect? Does it vary from dojo to dojo?
Basically, I'm doing to "window shopping" at the moment. I know I can swing by the dojo and see what things are like (if I get the job that is...), but I thought I'd make sure that I don't waste my time.
BTW- from a technique standpoint, I saw some very impressive videos. Looks like a good style in that respect.
Thanks
-K
Rob Gassin
24th December 2005, 05:27
Dear Walkman123z,
It is a condition of this form that each post be signed by your full name. Please do so in future.
In am a convert from Karate to Shorinji Kempo. My conversion occured over 20 years ago.
The spiritual aspect of SK is conveyed principally via its training methods. Compared to most forms of Karate, there is much more emphasis on pair form training. Therefore training is to improve oneself as well as your training partner. There is also much more emphasis on hurting but not necessarily injuring an opponent.
In reality, I do not think you will notice the spiritual aspect of SK in your day to day training.
Be warned however, the physical aspect of the art will challenge a lot of the concepts you have learnt in Karate. Therefore keep an open mind and you'll enjoy it.
Cheers, l
Tripitaka of AA
24th December 2005, 08:24
In am a convert from Karate to Shorinji Kempo. My conversion occured over 20 years ago.
A choice of words that may ring alarm bells for some...! :eek:
I think it is worth pointing out that Shorinji Kempo has branches all over the world, in countries where all the main religions are represented. Cities like London, where all those religions co-exist. Most people I've met have had no difficulties in reconciling the philosophy taught as part of Shorinji Kempo, as fitting in perfectly well witht he doctrine included in their own religious studies. Pragmatic and sensible ideas that make sense and make no demands of faith or belief.
Also, recent changes to the structure of Shorinji Kempo (much decried by many of the regular correspondents on this forum) have further sought to remove the philosophical teachings from the regular instruction. This would, I suppose, be partly in an effort to make the art more acceptable to places like the US.
Tripitaka of AA
24th December 2005, 08:36
Also...
You don't mention which town may be your destination... is it Ann Arbor? The Branch Master of Ann Arbor is a regular contributor to this forum (Gary Dolce Sensei), he will no doubt be along in due course.
Rob Gassin
24th December 2005, 09:10
My choice of the word "converted" could be misinterpreted. I certainly did not mean it in a religious sense. I used the word to convey the sense that I was an avid Karateka but am now an avid SK kenshi (the term for SK practitioners).
stevenm
24th December 2005, 09:30
Hi Walkman123z,
it seems that there is a very heavy spiritual component to the training. Unfortunately, from my basic search, that component doesn't seem to fall in line with my own belief system.
It would help if you expanded on what you perceive as the mismatches between Shorinji-Kempo philosophy and your own belief system
Regards
Stevenm
stevenm
24th December 2005, 10:02
Forgot to put my full name on last post
Appologies to all
Regards
Stevenm
The Kenshi formally known as
Steven Moore
luar
24th December 2005, 12:11
Why don't we sum it up quickly:
No one in ShorinjiKempo cares if you are a practicing Christian, Muslim, Jew or Buddhist. We do not try to convert people and the philosophical aspects of this art is about you using the the martial arts as a metaphor for you to live to your highest potential. What this means is ShorinjiKempo places a great deal of emphasis on creating individuals who are ethical and of good character with the idea of becoming leaders in society. By leadership we are not talking about going to join the Peace Corps or become an Activist but rather having the strength of character to stand up for yourself and others as well as becoming a positive role model.
I know Gary Dolce Sensei and he is a good teacher. My advice to you is not to waste your time Googling ShorinjiKempo but simply visiting his class at least 2 times and make your own determination.
sean dixie
24th December 2005, 13:36
Hi there Walkman, welcome to e-budo and merry Christmas.
As the others have said there really should be no problem with Shorinji Kempo philosophy and any sensible belief system you may follow. Thought I'd post a couple of links for you, including the Beirut branch (Thanks for the Training in Japan Sam - hope the tooths better mate! :) )
http://www.shorinji-kempo.uclu.org/basics.html
http://www.shorinji-kempo.org/
http://www.lebanon-shorinji.com/characteristics.php
Cheers.
jailess
24th December 2005, 18:23
I don't think that ShorinjiKempo should oppose your religion; to some it is a religion, to others a philosophy, and to most it's just a basic code of conduct.
How much it is present in your Dojo depends on your sensei. Most of the howa (philosophy) points taught in the Dojo are things like "ShorinjiKempo must help people, not hurt them", or "Defence is primary, offence is secondary", etc. And frankly, if you disagree with the above points, then you're probably not cut out for ShorinjiKempo anyway.
I find the philosophy to be the most unique part of ShorinjiKempo, and really contributes to the training atmposphere. Try a couple of classes and see if it's for you.
Otherwise Buddha'll come and get you.
Gary Dolce
24th December 2005, 18:53
If the town you are speaking of is Ann Arbor, you can visit our web site at the address in my signature. We are the only official Shorinji Kempo Branch in Michigan. You are welcome to come by and watch a class or try it out - our schedule is on the web site. I would be happy to talk to you more about your concerns via e-mail or in person.
Also, recent changes to the structure of Shorinji Kempo (much decried by many of the regular correspondents on this forum) have further sought to remove the philosophical teachings from the regular instruction. This would, I suppose, be partly in an effort to make the art more acceptable to places like the US.
Actually, this is not quite accurate. The current rule changes have taken the explicit Kongo Zen and Buddhism references out of the philosophy curriculum outside of Japan, but there still is a philosophy curriculum. You do not have to become a Buddhist to practice Shorinji Kempo, but I think it is important to be honest about the Buddhist roots of our philosophy. Most Christians, Jews, and Muslims that I have practiced with have no problem with that. A few do. The only way you will know is to find out for yourself.
luar
24th December 2005, 19:18
I know this has been discussed before but I need some further clarification. Is it not true that in Asian cultures, particularly Japanese, that religion and philosophy are really the same thing whereas in the West, they are mutually exclusive. So for example, Buddhism can be said to be a religion because there is no other word to describe it to a Westerner, yet if one studies it closely it really is a philosophy. Not sure if I am being clear but someone give me a quick run down.
Walkman123z
18th January 2006, 03:27
Thanks for all your replies. My computer died the day after I posted, so that's what took so long for me to get back here.
The branch (is that the proper term as opposed to dojo?) is in Logan, Utah.
Anyone know people who have trained there?
Kristian Walker
Gary Dolce
1st February 2006, 19:14
Thanks for all your replies. My computer died the day after I posted, so that's what took so long for me to get back here.
The branch (is that the proper term as opposed to dojo?) is in Logan, Utah.
Anyone know people who have trained there?
Kristian Walker
Kristian,
Sorry for the long delay in replying - somehow I missed your last message.
To the best of my knowledge, the Shorinji Kempo Branch that was in Logan was closed by the World Shorinji Kempo Organization several years ago. If there is someone in Logan claiming to teach Shorinji Kempo, they are not doing it with the official sanction of the organization that governs Shorinji Kempo worldwide. If you did practice there, you can't be sure that you are really learning Shorinji Kempo and your rank will not be recognized at any other Shorinji Kempo Branch.
Gary
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