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Doug Daulton
9th January 2006, 09:51
This thread replaces the now closed "WeaponsConnection" thread. Feel free to discuss the quality/style of manufacture, the end product and their use in the dojo ... for any weapons maker from Carbone to Shureido.

Also, feel free to challenge and discuss intelligently any claims made by any maker. However, keep challenges and responses focused on the issues at hand and keep personal slights and insults out of the thread.

Doug Daulton
9th January 2006, 09:58
For practioners of the Taira-Akamine line of Ryukyu Kobudo (a.k.a. Ryukyu Kobudo Hozon Shinkokai), Shureido is the vendor of choice. It is my understanding that their weapons are designed for and therefore ideally suited to our style of practice.

Personal experience backs this up for me. I've owned 10+ pair of sai in 25 years of practice and study as well as many bo, tekko, nunchaku and tonfa. None has held up under the rigors of training quite so well as those made by Shureido. And, none has suited our waza quite so well either.

I have worked with Western-made weapons which either copy the Shureido designs or try to improve on them, but none has ever matched or exceeded the original. That said, I am wholly ready to admit that this may simply be personal bias. :D Perhaps Tim Jurgens or Mario McKenna could chime in as well from the RKHS/Taira side of the house.

RobertRousselot
9th January 2006, 11:13
I like Shureido weapons as well. I have bought enough “stuff” from them to send Nakasone’s kid to Harvard and Oxford. (Nakasone owns Shureido).
I have two stories which I will relate that are similar in nature but come from to different arts.
When I was in Taiwan I studied brush painting. I wanted to buy a new brush and asked the owner of the brush shop which one was the best one for me. He said “they are all just fine for you”. I thought what kind wise cracker is this guy…..I asked again. He said look and picked up a junky brush that was about $1 and started to paint an excellent piece of work (for me anyway), then picked up a brush that cost $500 and painted the same thing just as well. He said “it’s not the brush but the artist”. Iliked his honesty because he could have sold me the $500 brush and my work would have sucked just as much as if I had bought the $1 brush.
Years ago I was in the dojo and my teacher said almost the same thing. “a true warrior should be able to pick up any weapon and use it well” (a weapon that he knows)

For these two reasons I have never been in to “custom made weapons”.
Believe me when I hit someone with a weapon it’s gonna hurt and I doubt they will care if it was “custom made” or not.

If I am not mistaken Musashi said something to the effect that weapons should be sturdy and for serious use and not “decorative”.

TimJurgens
9th January 2006, 12:27
Doug and Rob,

Concur with both of your comments. Only a little more info to add about Shureido, their Dogi are also very good. The only complaint is about the price as the gear is top price. I would also waive anyone off from buying one of their stock Eku (Oar) as the ballance is not very good. Shureido get most of their kit from someone else. I wish I knew where. I know that for a while they were selling Tinbe that Don Shapland was making from a sea turtle carapas he got from some fellows having a turtle soup down near the Seaman's club. The quality of his work was good enough for Shureido to resell. That is what they do with the rest of the weapons as well.

I would also say that most of the time plain iron weapons are prefered to chrome plated ones. The plain kind seem to be more yeoman in nature and that fits well with the idea of having plain but solid technique. If you have a good waza you don't need the sunlight to glint off of the weapon to make it look impressive. As a down side to that you do need to keep an oil rag fresh to keep the rust down and probably your nice white dogi has some brown / orangeish tint around the hips.

I would also suggest getting any Kama at a hardware store instead of a martial arts store. The item will be genuine and you won't have to pay any mark up for it being something that is hard to come by. Obviously you can't buy Sai at the local do it yourself shop so there is a bit of a monopoly that drives up price. Kama go for under 10 Dollars US for a very nice one, 20 for a pair. They can also be purchased at much cheaper prices as little as 3 Dollars in some places for the lighter ones with thiner metal on the blades.

While we are on the subject of weapons I would also say that it is a good idea to have a good Bo that you want to keep for a few decades and a softer maybe rattan one that you don't mind getting chunks taken out of while doing weapons kumite.

One other intersting story is that my good friend Emile vanHeerden made some very nice nunchakku that he tried to sell in his home county of South Africa. The shop owner ran him off because the nunchakku did not have chains and instead used nylon chord. The fellow did not think they would sell without the flashy chains.

Budoka 34
9th January 2006, 12:42
Gordon Shell makes some of the most beautiful and rugged weapons I've seen.


http://www.murasakikobudo.com/

RobertRousselot
9th January 2006, 12:45
My only criteria for Bo is that they don't break so easy when sparring.
I had one split down the middle and just about "pierced' a student.

RobertRousselot
9th January 2006, 12:48
.......
One other intersting story is that my good friend Emile vanHeerden made some very nice nunchakku that he tried to sell in his home county of South Africa. The shop owner ran him off because the nunchakku did not have chains and instead used nylon chord. The fellow did not think they would sell without the flashy chains.

Actually Emile’s Bo are very nice and his replaced the one that split on me.

TonyU
9th January 2006, 16:08
I've purchased some nice weapons from Roger Pratt sensei (student of Estrada sensei, who posts here on occasion.)
Very well made and nicely balanced. You can feel the Ki. :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/aburena/DSC01814.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/aburena/DSC01815.jpg

Sanseru
9th January 2006, 19:53
Hi Doug:

Long time no chat. I really don't have too much more to add. I would agree with Tim's descriptions about Shureido. The quality is definately good (although more and more of Nakaone-san's goods are becoming mass produced), but the price is quite high. I would also agree that their stock eku are poor and unbalanced. I ordered one several years ago and found it to be quite cumbersome. I had better luck with the local dragon boat oars :-)

There are other solutions and vendors of course. One of which was a small vendor in Fukuoka that I used when I still lived in Nagasaki. He made everything by hand and the quality was top-notch. I can dig up his address if needed. And speaking of making things by hand, I was also fortunate in that my dojo sempai / sensei made some of their own weapons such as tonfa, nunchaku, ticchu, suruchin, etc.

Kama are also best purchased at the local hardware store. I bought a few sets when I went back to Japan last year at about 1/2 the cost of shuriedo and just as good if not better quality.

Here in vancouver, I have been lucky enough to have one of my students who is a blacksmith make some of our weapons, mostly sai and tekko. Some of my students have also ordered bo from Crane mountain and I have been impressed with the quality, but they are very expensive IMHO. The only weapon that is problematic is Rochin/Tinbe, but as Tim pointed out, Mr. Shapland is producing good quality ones from what I have heard. Alternately, there are some good manufactures for the society of creative annacroynisms that do good work and could be contacted to make them.

All the best,

CEB
9th January 2006, 19:59
Shureido kama are OK if you like swinging twin hand axes. I guess they make for an better workout than 12oz curls.

Gibukai
9th January 2006, 20:15
Hello,

can anybody say something about "Okinawa Seibudo"?

Regards,

Henning Wittwer

TonyU
9th January 2006, 20:23
Oops! It appears that I forgot to post his webiste.
www.fightingweaponry.com
It is still under construction.

dsomers
9th January 2006, 20:29
I was told you can purchase Eiku at a sporting goods store in Okinawa, and/or japan. Was wondering if any of you have done so, & what your take is on them compared to Shureido, & other such dealers?

David

E.elemental
9th January 2006, 22:31
I dont have a lot of experience, but these are my favourites. I do agree though that you should be able to use whatever weapon available. So using different and lending from some other at times is highly recommended.


http://www.crane-mountain.com
Bo: Really nice to whatever specifications requested (straight and tapered etc).
Nunchaku: Nice, however the weapon itself is not my favourite.
Tonfa: Very impressive heavy duty tonfa, does take o lot of beating!
Eiku: Excellent and beutiful, can be made of purpleheart (heavy and my personal favourite) or any other wood, hickory would be the choise if speed is of extra importance.

Pam: Kind person that have helped me a lot with different things. She even sent me a christmas card.. thanks Pam!! :)

http://www.weaponsconnection.com/
Sai: Great sai that I think are very nice and easy to use.
Tonfa: Good heavy duty tonfa made of bubinga.

Donald Shapland
Timbe: Great looking and heavy duty timbe, can be made with various kanji written on the front or the back (silver or gold).
Rochin: Made of Cocobola for instance, nice feeling. He makes the blade of two different metals, ask for the one of knife-blade quality. Costs a bit more though.

Other sites:
http://www.okiadventures.com/html/weapons.html
Sai: I am pretty interested in their sai..

http://www.reimondo.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
Bo: I myself prefer straight bo but for the ones in to tapered this company has nice ones.

ryukyu2000
10th January 2006, 00:34
Jerry Taylor is also now making custom sai for Murasaki Kobudo and Gorden Shell -- seen a few pair and they are really nice.

Andy Morris
Delmar, NY USA

shoshinkan
10th January 2006, 00:38
for those who wish to buy in the UK, Reimondo comes highly recomended !

Doug Daulton
10th January 2006, 01:48
Mario got me thinking ... I've actually made my own Rochin under the guidance of Dometrich Sensei and Takara Sensei. The process is pretty straightforward. If Sensei gives me the OK, I'll write up the design specs and post them here. I've also experimented with Tinbe construction on my own and have yet to find one I like. If/when I come up with a workable one, I'll let everyone know.

Budoka 34
10th January 2006, 03:38
Andy,

Is that who make his Sai? They are beautiful and very well balanced.

Doug,

If I may ask which Dometrich Sensei?

Doug Daulton
10th January 2006, 03:47
Doug,

If I may ask which Dometrich Sensei?Devorah Yoshiko Dometrich, my Kobudo teacher. For more information, check out okinawakobudo.com (http://www.okinawakobudo.com).

Budoka 34
10th January 2006, 03:51
Doug,

You my friend are a very lucky man!

I have had the privilege of training with her on several occasions.
She is an incredible instructor.

BTW do you come to the International Martial Arts Symposium in Columbia SC with her?

Doug Daulton
10th January 2006, 16:06
Doug,

You my friend are a very lucky man!

I have had the privilege of training with her on several occasions.
She is an incredible instructor.

BTW do you come to the International Martial Arts Symposium in Columbia SC with her?Thanks! I certainly agree. :) I've not made it to the SC Symposium yet, but I hear very good things, so perhaps in the future.

Best regards,

Jawa
13th January 2006, 21:59
I have got weapons from:

reimondo in the uk
sandata crafts in the USA
kamikaze in germany (which is a shureido distributor)

I would reccomend all 3. Although the latter i only got a nice pair of shureido sai. Anything else i couldn't comment on. They were very fast shipping to the uk from Germany.

Ahmed

absindt
16th January 2006, 17:30
Hi all

I have tried several different bo, some made from local craftsmen here in Denmark which were great. I also test weapons from my friend who runs a succesfull martial arts store here in Copenhagen, and got a bo from Bujin design last year.
All I can say is wouw, great finish, weight and perfectly balanced. I highly recommend them but yes they are a bit expensive.
I also enjoy my handcrafted bo made of Bubinga by my collegue Rainer Bucken from Germany.

Regarding Kama, I have tried Shureido kama which are ok but pretty heavy duty. But I prefer "real" kama which you can by in the local hardware store in Okinawa and Japan. But you can also get them here http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&mimid=RL0985WNA9A59P5CBP6NT8UHTDK61RV6&pf_id=17.200.210&dept_id=13269

My 2 cents,

Jim R Sindt

E.elemental
19th January 2006, 22:35
Make your opinion heard! :p

A related poll: http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32441

The discussions about different brands/vendors/stores etc could be kept here although. So there isnt two threads with almost the same topic.

:)

wsteigner
23rd January 2006, 19:13
After all the talk about the Agena Sai i bought a pair nice. very close to what i remember being made by the little old Sai maker in Agena by Shimabuku Sensei Dojo. Mine were lost while i did a tour in country so i left Okinawa
with a pair from gate two street Ipondo i think was the name of the group who made them. I like the new ones.
thank you
bill steigner

dsomers
23rd January 2006, 20:01
Bill,

But do they shoot ki out of the tip, lol? Just kidding! Dont wanna get started w/ that again.
But, have you ever bought hardware store Kama, or a Eiku from a sporting goods store while in Okinawa? If so, what are your thoughts on them compared to lets say Shureido?

David

wsteigner
23rd January 2006, 20:07
Yes David i brought back about 5 pr Kama to cut the grass with they hold up fine. Eku from the sporting goods store would just be a boat paddle and a little short for the tall people in our world, but could work just fine also and save some money too.
thank you
bill

TimJurgens
28th January 2006, 11:41
Kama are common in hardware shops. Eku are not. In fact eku is the name of the paddle in the local dialect. A fellow noticed me taking mine into the elevator the other day and mentioned what they are called in Japanese but I don't remember the word. He did not know the work eku and until I explained what it was in Japanese to him he was a little confused.

dsomers
28th January 2006, 14:33
Was it Kai, Tim? Are Okinawan boat paddles shaped like U.S. boat paddles, or are they like eiku? If they are shaped like Eiku, can you buy stronger one's that would hold up to kumite?

David

Sanseru
28th January 2006, 17:00
Hi David:

Yes, in starndard Japanese oar is pronunced 'kai'. Using 'eku', no one would understand what the hell you were talking about - even young Okinawans :-)

Cheers,

StephenMWyatt
7th November 2007, 05:23
Already received from Roger Pratt Sensei:

Nitan-bo (2') in Ipe Wood -- hit them so hard together, that my arms ached, without a dent on either of them.

6' Octagon Bo in Coco-Bolobo Wood -- dark and lovely, with a little bit of "character" (a small worm-hole center-mass, and a slight split on the grain on one side). I advised him I was GREATLY satisfied, but I was afraid I might "hurt" it one day, because of the split. He asked me to "try to break it, if you can, using hard bo-te-bo contact", and is sending me a FREE REPLACEMENT, in Ipe Wood, to allay my fears!!! Some pretty hard contact has NOT caused the split to grow, in about a month so far.

Now, because of Pratt Sensei's character, professionalism, and down-right super-human humility (even though he's an EXCELLENT craftsman, and should be flaunting it more!), I'm currently awaiting from Pratt Sensei:

San-Setsu-Kon in "Red ?" Wood (I forget, but will post as soon as I get it from him) -- 3 sections, 8" each, which are slightly longer than Shureido's 6" 3-sectioned "tri-chuck".

All this (2-bos, a pair of nitan-bo, and a chaku) for about $175!!!

Guess where all my children, future students, Sensei, and friends are going to get their weapons from now on? FightingWeaponry.com

If any of you have seen the Samurai Trilogy about Musashi, Pratt Sensei reminds me of the sword polisher, that caused Musashi to re-think his views on workmen... ...he is THAT dedicated, and I was humbled by him and his work.

Later,
Stephen W.

Duanew
7th November 2007, 12:18
Curt Fisher makes great quality kobudo custom made to the buyer at very reasonable prices. He has satisfied customers around the world. He has used Shureido weapons as his template. He guarantees any of his weapons for as long as he is alive. Check him out at;
http://www.matsumurakenpo.org/dragonfire/index.html

Duane Wolfe

johnst_nhb
9th November 2007, 00:20
Curt Fisher makes great quality kobudo custom made to the buyer at very reasonable prices. He has satisfied customers around the world. He has used Shureido weapons as his template. He guarantees any of his weapons for as long as he is alive. Check him out at;
http://www.matsumurakenpo.org/dragonfire/index.html

Duane Wolfe

I second the C. Fisher referral above. He is great!

Mitya
5th December 2007, 06:18
Greetings,
Although he's been mentioned before elsewhere, I have to put in a word here for Kim Taylor of Sei Do Kai Supplies. He custom-made several nunchaku and tanto for me for what I thought were a reasonable price. The workmanship is great and he really knows his woods.

And I ain't saying what I coughed up for it, but he also made me an ebony bo that is both beautiful to look at and a joy to hold. (It's too pretentious to take to the dojo, but if I use it at home, my regular aka-gashi bo feels feather-light by comparison.)

For those of you with a historical bent, check out Kim's "Bog Oak Tanto". It's a real conversation piece.

honos1
3rd January 2008, 21:51
I hope this is the appropriate place to post this as I am new to these forums so please correct me if I am wrong via my email and have patience with a newbie to the forums.

I just started running a website kereke.com and I sell Roger Pratt's weapons for him and would also be open to other makers who are willing to supply me with the higher quality weapons online. I run the supplies for our dojo here in grand rapids michigan and would like to develop a reputation for carrying and getting people the kind of top notch equipment that Roger makes.

KWON has it's national distributor here in town so I started carrying their equipment and have begun carrying Roger Pratt's weapons. Roger trains at times with Sensei Ernest Estrada my teachers teacher. So I was able to meet him and asked if he would mind if I sold his bos and tuifa.

I would like to be in touch with those who make the higher quality kobudo style weapons so I ask that if you know of someone who would be willing to let me sell their works please pass on my company email address...

kerekemartialarts@gmail.com

I don't need to get rich off of selling another persons works and would just like to make a living involved in something I love. I have been training in Shorin Ryu Karate for 19 years and now run our kids classes with 4 of my own children in class.

Nothing I will ever sell gets out without the creator's approval first.

John Kleck
Honos1@hotmail.com
Kereke.com
San Dan Shorin Ryu Karate
Chibana Style

TheBadger
9th January 2008, 19:03
Other than Shureido, does anyone know of other manufacturers of metal Tekko?

harleyt26
11th January 2008, 02:57
I am not sure but I was told that Shureido might not have them anylonger.One of my students makes them for the people at my dojo.He recently informed me he has sixty sets ready to assemble.I will ask him next class about them.May I ask what style of kobudo you practice and who your instructor is?Does not matter just curious,not the most common weapon to be asking for.
Tom Hodges

TheBadger
16th January 2008, 21:23
I am not sure but I was told that Shureido might not have them anylonger.One of my students makes them for the people at my dojo.He recently informed me he has sixty sets ready to assemble.I will ask him next class about them.May I ask what style of kobudo you practice and who your instructor is?Does not matter just curious,not the most common weapon to be asking for.
Tom Hodges
Certainly, I train in Matayoshi kobudo as part of the Okinawa Kobudo Doushi Rensei-kai.

stormrider
19th November 2008, 22:59
Good Evening everyone,
I have had great luck with a company in New Mexico called crane mountain, they have some of the nicest Bo, Tonfa and eiku that I have come across, I have replaced the Bo that Kise sensei admired( I had made it myself)out of rose wood.
It was very durable and also not hard to look at ( if you over look some of my free hand carving work)
Tim Jurgens is correct about the Kama from the hardware stores, bought a pair from the Gushikawa hardware store( across the street from coffee shop mozart) near Camp courtney on Okinawa

harleyt26
19th November 2008, 23:12
stormrider,from the description of your rosewood bo and your location in Titusville.Is it possible we may have met at a kobudo seminar in Ocala in 2002? I remember a gentleman there had a hand carved rosewood bo.

Tom Hodges

stormrider
20th November 2008, 18:48
Hi Tom,
That would be me....great seminar that was, wished i could have stayed longer but my wife was under the weather.....and it was a bit of a ways to PlantCity

harleyt26
21st November 2008, 00:49
stormrider,it was a good seminar.
Tamayose sensei will be here again this coming february.He will be doing more seminars at a tournament in Orlando.It would be good to see you there if you can make it. You can contact me directly by e-mail if you would like more info. This event is not a Tesshinkan event and I am not associated with the group putting it together. And I do not want to break any e-budo rules by posting a link to it here. But there will also be seminars by Tsuyoshi Uechi(Isshinryu)and Tokumura (Tokushin kobudo)at that event.

Tom Hodges

Kobudo
12th December 2008, 19:01
I would like some information on this weapons makers if possible could some one be kind and send his website?
Kobudo from Texas
Thanks

harleyt26
12th December 2008, 21:23
what weapons maker do you want info on?

Tom Hodges