Shin, Gi, Tai? [Archive]

dsomers

1st February 2006, 17:45

I think this might be a bit contreversal, but it's been something
I've been struggling with, & would like some input. In Okinawan
Karate, there are three areas of development; Shin, Gi, Tai; or
Heart, technique, & body. Of those three, they say that the
development of a good heart is most important. In Okinawa, you can
actually see this, as the Okinawan people for the most part, are
very genuinely nice people, & it is very peaceful there. If I wasnt
married, I wouldnt of came back, I enjoyed it soooooo much. The
thing is, in the western world, atleast here in the US, often times
this is overlooked, IMO. People concentrate on the development of
both body, & technique, & overlook the development of a good heart.
This saddens me very much. I've noticed that many instructors like
to judge a book by it's cover, & do not like to look into the
contents of a book, but to discriminate by it's cover. I've had
instructors that have been racist, & have given me a hard time
because I am a bigger sized person. To many the Dojo Kun is just a
bunch of words just to be said, they dont take it in, learn from it,
& live it. I am from a lineage that part of their Dojo Kun it says
to be humble, & polite, & dont be to proud, or modest. But, many
within this lineage, even w/ present leadership are both rude, &
boastful. The founder of my style of Goju Ryu, Miyagi Chojun Sensei,
often said, You should not eat from Karate. Over the last several
yrs, this saying has changed for me a bit. I originally thought that
he was saying do not charge for instruction, but dont think that is
what he intended. I think what he was trying to say, is that you
should not rely on Karate as your full time job. Reason being, is
that alot of the time, no matter what field it is when you start
making money from something greed will take over, & you will forget
the reason why you 1st started doing what you do, for the love of
it. Just for an example, something not related to Karate, some
people become truck drivers, because for some it is good money, &
you can earn it fast. They do so to support their families, but are
often times out on the road so much, their family starts falling
apart, get caught up in making the money, & forget why they started
to drive, to provide for their family, but their not providing the
love needed. In the past Shodo (calligraphy), Ikebana (flower
arrangement), bonsai, & music, etc were all part of Budo. There is a
saying in Japanese, Bun Bu Ryu Do, or the way of the warrior, &
Scholar are one in the same. If we look at the Kanji for Shin, it is
the same Kanji used for both heart, & mind; reason being, they
believe the mind, and heart, are one in the same. All of above was
done for the development of a whole person. My question is, is that
how can we teach the development of a good heart, in a society that
is very violent, & filled w/ hate, discrimination, etc? I am
planning on opening up a non commercial, semi private Dojo at my
house that is being in the process of being built. Being that my
wife, is of a different race of me, & I want to be very selective of
who I teach, because I want there to be a bond between us, as in
Okinawa, the teacher/student relationship is very important, how
would I go about selecting the right students, since they will be
comming to my house? Eventually I would like to get a building, but
first I have to build up a student base. Also, I know of a few
instructors that have been charged w/ sexual harrassment, some have
been wrongfully accused, some students I know of have developed
feelings for their instructors, & this has created problems. I have
talked to my wife about this, & we are in agreement, I do not wish
to put myself into this position, but yet dont want to be accused of
discrimination either. How would you go about this? I also do not
wish to teach children as #1 I would have to water down my art, & #2
nowadays parents wanna drop their kids off to karate class, because
they wanna instill in them discipline, & often times the child does
not want to be there. Often times, children are classified w/ ADD,
or ADHD, & have emotional problems because their parents just dont
care, & there's a lack of love, & discilpine at home. Then their
child will act up in class, & disrupt it. I have to be very
selective, but how; and how do you go about teaching the development
of a good heart in todays/western society, that is totally different
from where the are originated? This is a struggle for me, HELP!!!!!!

David Somers
www.angelfire.com/fl5/okinawagojuryu
www.okinawagojuryu.org

Tri-ring

5th February 2006, 11:38

Konichiwa Somers-san

Twenty+ years ago, when I was in my teens, my physical education teacher in Junior high was a Olympic Judo athelete.
His teaching was simple, do not consider a child to be a child within the dojo, respect is mutual, respect the pupil in exchange for respect from the pupil. He did not treat us as children and we responded with respect.
He threw us as if we were autumn leaves dancing in the wind, and he also taught us that rei is not a form of etiquette nor a ritual.
He taught us the brutal-dangerous side of martial arts and why mutual respect is needed. We had several students a year breaking their arms and/or dis-placing their joints.
Humbleness is gained from respect to others and to teach respect is with a strict attitude not to spare the rod.

K.Miwa

momoyama katsu

16th February 2006, 08:26

...how do life!?!?!... how do select worthy disciple!?!?!? Dave, the first part of your post was charming (...how do life!?!?!...) but as for the second part (how do select worthy disciple!?!?!?!) was a little appalling.
Often times, children are classified w/ ADD,
or ADHD, & have emotional problems because their parents just dont
care, & there's a lack of love, & discilpine at home. honestly! many people, adults and children, suffer from ADD, ADHD, etc. these are disabilities that martial arts can HELP people MANAGE and besides that why DO you want to teach? do you have a shidoin certificate? if so: what org? maybe you should get your shodan first because, with all due respect, you sound like you're only fifth kyu or there about. please, no offence if you are higher in rank than that

dsomers

16th February 2006, 09:15

Colin,

First you need to grow up, & stop the insults! My rank is something private to me, from my personal instructors, but can tell you it is much higher then 5th Kyu, & have been training since about 1978. Have taught for various Dojo since about 1990. So, I do think I have a bit of experience. If you want to find out more about me, I reccomend you visit my websites, & if you have any speciffice questions about my experiences/background that you ask in private.
Now, on to your questions:
1. why DO you want to teach?
I believe it was a calling, & dont want my art to die. I believe we all have a pupose in life, a calling, & this is part of mine. To teach those w/ a good heart, that wish to learn.
2. do you have a shidoin certificate?
No, most Goju Ryu groups do not give out Shidoin certificates. I believe this might be more of an Aiki thing, or perhaps a Japanese thing, rather then Okinawan. Most Okinawan groups use the titles of either Shibu Cho, or kancho, as an instructors license. There are also teaching titles of Renshi, Kyoshi, & Hanshi. But, yes, I do have a Kancho Certificate.
3. if so: what org?
Really, that is none of your business. I might have the answer on one of my sites, not sure, cant remember. However, if you wish to be nosey, why dont you email me in private, & we can discuss it, or any of my other credentials.
While your at it, please tell us a lil' bit about your own background Colin, since no one knows you, & the 3rd post you make on this forum is to start trouble. I read your profile, your occupation fits you just right, you are a troll.

momoyama katsu

16th February 2006, 09:36

momoyama katsu

16th February 2006, 10:11

oh,btw I looked up "kancho" and this is what I found (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kancho) are you putting me on?

dsomers

16th February 2006, 16:53

Different Kanji. Kan is like house, building, etc. Cho I believe is like a person that is a head of something. It can also be used for like a principal of a school, your boss, etc. Another term I totally forgot is Dojo Cho.

dsomers

16th February 2006, 17:54

I found this on another site FYI on Kancho:

Kancho in the budo sense is 館長 which literally means director ot curator, it can also refer to someone as the head of a household. A person who owns the building/style.

Here's some more info: http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-8993.html

館長【かんちょう】 (n) superintendent; director; curator; chief librarian;
taken from http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Kancho

You can find more info here: http://www.gojuryu.net/readarticle.php?article_id=44

Famous people that use the title Kancho: Kanazawa Sensei of Shotokan; Mas Oyama did at one point, so does his current successor, Matsui Kancho; Gozo Shioda of Aikido; Gakku Homma of the Nippon kan; Hatsuo Royama also of Kyokushin uses it. Kancho Joko Ninomiya of Enshin karate. Kancho Hideyuki Ashihara of Ashihara Karate. Onaga Yoshimitsu of the Shinjinbukan. John Porta, the US Director of the Okinawa Goju Ryu Karate Do Shobukan uses it as well. Minoru Mochizuki of the Yoseikan does, as well. So does Inoue Kancho, current president of the Aikido Yoshinkan. I can go on, & on if you would like more examples, but, dont think it is neccessary.

David

Ron Tisdale

16th February 2006, 20:57

Colin, do you really want someone from a spat on the internet contacting Chiba Shihan about what rank you are?

I don't think I'd want my teacher getting contacted like that. Not in this situation anyway...

Oh, and the title kancho (no clue of the kanji) is used in the yoshinkan.

When asking for the bill at a resturant in Japan (one way of asking for the bill in Japanese is "kanjo kudasai" or "Please give me the bill") the victim is told to say, "Kancho kudasai!" or "Please give me a kancho!" which usually results in hysterical laughter by the waiter. Gotta admit, this was FUNNY...

Best,
Ron

dsomers

16th February 2006, 21:04

Getting back to the subject at hand; and to try to sift through my original post to get to the essential questions.
How do you teach, or should I say help w/ the development of a good heart within a society that is filled with hate, violence, & discrimination?
Since, I will be teaching out of my house, I cannot accept just anyone. There are many issues that are involved in this. However, my goal is to teach men traditional Okinawan Karate, & Kobudo. I want to help them, & for them to help me, as well, to be better leaders, husbands, fathers, brothers, sons, uncles, etc. I want to have a multi cultured Dojo, where everyone is accepted for who they are, not the way they look. I follow MLK's dream, & this is one of the things I want to impart. I live in the south where racism is still alive, & well. Sometimes it is something taught by parents, familly, friends, etc; other times, it is something learned from life experience. But, my wish, is to teach total Karate Do, the development of Shin, Gi, Tai, to men of all cultures. To teach that there is not bad races, but that there are bad people in every race. Also, society dictates what a person is supposed to look like, we are taught that people are supposed to look like somone that is thin, & trim, muscle bound, etc; But, that this is an image portrayed by hollywood, & we should be taught to look at a person from within, not from their their exterior covering. Some good movies that I would reccomend people to watch, that help illustrate this, & to teach to get over this way of thinking are Shallow Hal, & Something New. To teach men to research, obtain knowledge, impart the knowledge on others, to teach them violence is not the answer, but to defend yourself if the need be, & to express your freedom of speech, but to do so politely, & w/ knowledge, & wisdom. To be a gentle, kind, & caring man. To teach them that it is ok to express your feelings, & emotions, as men; & to be honest law abiding citizens, that want to give back to others, & their communities. I think this post will help describe more of what I want to do, my ideas, my thoughts, & the way I think.
Women have a group that does the same thing, which was built upon the YMCA, it is called the YWCA. You should research it. Here's their site: http://www.ywca.org/site/pp.asp?c=djISI6PIKpG&b=284783 . Women also have health clubs like Shapes, & curves, just for women only. So, I want my Dojo to be something uniquely for men only, to concentrate on the above. Also, doing a websearch, I came across some women only Dojo. Check them out:
http://www.durhamkarate.com/
http://wckc.oceansfree.com/
http://www.karateforwomen.com/default.asp
http://www.members.shaw.ca/dnawata/
I'm sure there are many others. But here is also a womens karate Organization, that seems to be doing the same things I'm talking about, but for women only, ck it out: http://www.womenskaratetour.org/
Here's some other women only orgs:
http://www.awmai.org/
http://www.nwmaf.org/
But, to get back to the original intent of my posts:
How do you teach, or should I say help w/ the development of a good heart within a society that is filled with hate, violence, & discrimination?
How can you/do you select the right students?
Once I get a good student base, this would be done by word of mouth, but, how would I take the 1st step, to do so?

David

momoyama katsu

16th February 2006, 21:06

Colin, do you really want someone from a spat on the internet contacting Chiba Shihan about what rank you are?

I don't think I'd want my teacher getting contacted like that. Not in this situation anyway...

Oh, and the title kancho (no clue of the kanji) is used in the yoshinkan.

Gotta admit, this was FUNNY...

Best,
Ron
chiba shihan is not in fact my teacher but in fact the chair-person of the org in which I am ranked. but thanks for your concern...

dsomers

16th February 2006, 21:10

Ron,

I would never do such a thing, first. Second, his rank is none of my business, that's between him, & Chiba Shihan. Third, if I was concerned, I dont even think that is his real name, Colin, so I'd be setting myself up for a big joke, considering his profile.

David

momoyama katsu

16th February 2006, 21:24

Mark Murray

16th February 2006, 22:08

Getting back to the subject at hand; and to try to sift through my original post to get to the essential questions.

David,
You have some very good questions. I'm busy but I'm hoping to post my thoughts tomorrow.

Thanks,

momoyama katsu

16th February 2006, 22:20

chiba shihan is not in fact my teacher but in fact the chair-person of the org in which I am ranked.
sorry, I meant that he is the chair of the TEACHING COMMITTEE of the org... and I will seriously give my thoughts on the topic after my keiko...

CEB

16th February 2006, 22:47

dsomers

17th February 2006, 01:14

The whole idea of having to water down the art to teach children....I don't believe it. Maybe the path begins a little differently.....maybe not.

Chinen Sensei was a child when he began Karate. Yamakura Sensei was a child when he began Karate. I was a child and I think David was also when we began our studies.

But that is just me....

I do believe I would have to water down what I teach. I mean there is certain bunkai I cant/wont teach kids. There's certain fighting, & Self Defense techniques, I cant/wont teach kids. Within Goju Ryu, I think the Ibuki methods are very complicted to explain, to children; and cannot conduct Shime on them, as well. I dont even know if you could teach them any Hojo Undo, I guess you could teach them some, but not all. Some of the equipment would have to be specially made. But, cant teach Makiwara either. Nor Could I/would I have them do Kotekitaie, leg conditioning, or any other body hardening exercises. So, yes, I would have to water down what I teach.

Yes, I did start at an early age, I was five. But, my mother did not play. She was very strict, & it resulted in me being a very good kid, w/ pretty good manners. Today's society is very different. Alot of parents just dont care, and/or are affraid of getting in trouble for child abuse, for what we called tough love growing up.
I have a story to tell. A few months ago, myself, my wife, her friend, & her friends son were driving down the street, comming from a book store. The young boy started saying Mommy, Mommy there's one. He pointed to a TKD School. I said dont waste your money. My wives friend said that he was enrolled in another TKD school, but her husband lost his job, & she was supporting the whole familly, 3 kids, & her husband. So, she couldnt afford to send him to class anymore. She then said, well, do you know of some place? She didnt know I trained. I said yes, my backyard. I explained that I take what i do very serious, it's not a game, it's a way of life. My wife then said to her, yes, David has been training since he was five, & is very affordable. The woman said, well, how much would you charge? I said nothing. I explained, as I was growing up, there were many places I wanted to train, that my mother couldnt afford it, or had to quit training cause of finances. So I knew where she was comming from; & when she told me this story, it just broke my heart. Even though, I said I dont wanna teach kids, I was very willing to help him out. I was very excited actually, to be honest, cause we come from similar backgrounds, not financially well off, a mother trying to raise her kids pretty much by herself, & a young boy who seemed very passionate about learning. But, you know what, he never showed up.
Another story; Me, my wife, & another couple just went to see a movie the other day. The Boyfriend used to train TKD, he said he wanted to start training, the woman indicated that she wants to learn weapons. The boyfriend indicated he would also like to get her adopted son, who has some type of dissabillity into training too. I inquired in to what it actually is, he said he has 3 out of 5 qualities of what makes somone autistic. I told him, well if you ever wanted to get together to train, or even the three of you, give me a call, or email me. Told him that even if he wanted to just get together every once in a while to share w/ eachother, we could do that too; or if they wanted to train w/ me as students, since they are friends, I wouldnt charge them anything. Gave him a card. Still waiting.
But, the point is, I am willing to make exceptions, but, it all depends on the circumstances. I know these people, or know of them. So, they are people I trust. But, cant just allow anyone to come to my house.

CEB

17th February 2006, 02:45

I think the generalizations about how society has turned south isn't as big a deal as you may think. If you don't in allow inappropiate behavior it may not manifest itself. We have a 12 year old I am told is a behavior problem and I have seen him out in public and he is a little turd but in class he is good. The man who teaches the kids just doesn't allow bad manners. He will kick them out of the dojo and they know it.

But the things you are talking about that you say you have to do in order to teach kids is not watering down the art. It is simply selecting what part of the Goju Ryu you will present and in what order you will present it. You teach the STUDENT not the ART. The art doesn't need to ne taught. It is the student that requires the teaching.

I wasn't big on teaching kids for a long time. I used to think like you. I used to not be big on teaching anyone. I got the job by default when Sensei closed his hands. But, I have a student who likes to teach kids. He is good at it. What he teaches is physical fitness, kihon, kata and yakusoku kumite. Some of the young ones look very good. I believe you know that children are taught Goju Ryu in Okinawa. What the kids learn is a subset of what the adults learn. So you are not watering down Goju Ryu. You are providing a base for the future development of their Goju Ryu.

I am not saying you should teach children because if your heart is not in it you will not be good at it. I am not good at it. But saying you need to 'water' down Goju Ryu to teach it to children is not a correct view in my opinion. There is a difference.

I think what you are saying is that children would not make suitable training partners for yourself. A lot of guys just want to teach in order that they simply have practice partners to train with. This is OK if that is what you want.

Children grow into adults. It is really hard to guess what the future will be. But if I had to guess.... the gentleman who will continue Goju Ryu up here when my generation is gone will be a young man named James. The beauty of Karate is it is an endeavor that can last the entire life span.

One thing David I would really advise looking into, maybe you already have. I would try to find a 3rd party establishment to house your class. We teach at a church gynamsium and at a community rec center. I have a freind teaching in the public school system in Ohio and so does Mr Ong.....(never mind you don't want to do children). My point concerns libability coverage issues. I don't know what kind of liability exposure can be covered by your homeowners coverage. Even if you think you know the people you are taking into your home I think it there is potential for serious risk. I have freinds up here teaching out of their homes. Up here it is more of a good ole boy kind of environment, but I still think it is risky. You live in the big city that makes it worse, more lawyers down there. :)

Good Luck.

dsomers

17th February 2006, 04:21

Actually where we are moving, is probablly alot more like where you probablly live. It is a very small town, we are trying to get out of the city life, so when we have kids, it will be a beter enviroment for them. Not only that, tired of all the noise (radio's, screaming, yelling, etc), pollution, violence, etc.

You wrote:
I think the generalizations about how society has turned south isn't as big a deal as you may think.
I will have to disagree. My opinions are based on life experiences. Some of you may have read about, elsewhere. Unfourtanetly, it is often times a cycle, sometimes taught, sometimes learned from life experiences. But, it comes from all races, not just one race in paticular. But, it must be stopped. If you want paticulars of events that have happened, in which I've experienced, or been witness to, I can give them to you. I would rather do so in private, but, if enough people are interested. I would be glad to share my experiences w/ you, or anyone else. I think you will be suprised of some of the stuff that has happened, that it comes from all races, and nationalities, etc. I posted on another forum some info, & have it saved in wordpad. I can share it w/ you here, or in private, if you would like. I think it will open up many peoples eyes to different types of racism/discrimination, & harrassment. There is a part of the post though, that contains some footage of somone, that was perhaps being abused because of his nationality, that I posted; and should of actually got his permission first, & had the website administrator remove it for me, even though the person who was in the footage may , or may not know. i think it was a good illustration though. Let me stop rambling, & get some sleep. Talk to you soon.

David

momoyama katsu

17th February 2006, 04:30

if gojuryu is a way of life than why not start people of on such a path from a young age? should martial arts not be able to adapt for different practitioners? (((serious)))

CEB

17th February 2006, 13:58

Sure, if the teacher wants to teach young people then yes teaching kids is good. Miyagi Chojun taught children. You don’t even need to adapt the art. Practicing basics is always good. The only problem I find is that it is not always convenient, especially if you only have one child. There are some things the adults need to work and you may not want the child to work so you have split your attention. I have a boy in my class. He had a tendency to want to play in the kid’s class.

We do not use play in the kid’s class. I think the trend now is not to approach teaching children in the budo style but to make it a form of play. We do NOT do this. The boy is talented so I bought him into my class and he does very well now, but he is too young to be doing a lot of what we do so it is not very convenient sometimes.

The fact we teach on Church grounds may give us some advantage, I do not know. Maybe the kids are better behaved or at least there is a tendency for them to be better behaved at the Church I do not know.

Mark Murray

17th February 2006, 15:48

Getting back to the subject at hand; and to try to sift through my original post to get to the essential questions.
How do you teach, or should I say help w/ the development of a good heart within a society that is filled with hate, violence, & discrimination?

First, you can not change society. What you can do is change yourself and in doing that you can influence society. :)

And you've already answered your question about how do you teach from your first post. You talked about shin, gi, tai and that the development of the heart is the most important; you talked about training for the love of it; and you talked about shin being both mind and heart. So, when you asked "how do you go about teaching the development of a good heart in todays/western society", I think you only had to look within yourself to find that answer. :) How do you teach the development of a good heart? You teach from within your own good heart and you impart your own good heart in your teachings and the students will learn from that.

Since, I will be teaching out of my house, I cannot accept just anyone. There are many issues that are involved in this. However, my goal is to teach men traditional Okinawan Karate, & Kobudo. I want to help them, & for them to help me, as well, to be better leaders, husbands, fathers, brothers, sons, uncles, etc. I want to have a multi cultured Dojo, where everyone is accepted for who they are, not the way they look. I follow MLK's dream, & this is one of the things I want to impart.

I think that if you are true to your ideals, then you'll impart them in your teachings, no matter if you wanted to or not. I'll use myself for an example. It was one of the best compliments I have received. During the Gulf War, I was stationed in Saudi with others of my unit. During the regular 12 hour shifts, we had some downtime and some of us would sit and talk. One of the people I talked with was a woman in the unit whom I didn't really know all that well. I was white and she was black. We talked about things like tv shows, the situation at the time, our living accomodations, etc, but nothing very personal or in-depth. One day during a conversation (I forget what it was about), she looked at me and said, It wouldn't matter to you at all if the woman you were involved with was black or white, would it? I looked at her and answered, no. Through our conversations (and possibly our work environment), she had seen a part of my inner heart and we had never discussed that issue before.

Be whom you are and teach from that and your students will learn.

Women have a group that does the same thing, which was built upon the YMCA, it is called the YWCA. You should research it. Here's their site: http://www.ywca.org/site/pp.asp?c=djISI6PIKpG&b=284783 . Women also have health clubs like Shapes, & curves, just for women only. So, I want my Dojo to be something uniquely for men only, to concentrate on the above. Also, doing a websearch, I came across some women only Dojo. Check them out:
http://www.durhamkarate.com/
http://wckc.oceansfree.com/
http://www.karateforwomen.com/default.asp
http://www.members.shaw.ca/dnawata/
I'm sure there are many others. But here is also a womens karate Organization, that seems to be doing the same things I'm talking about, but for women only, ck it out: http://www.womenskaratetour.org/
Here's some other women only orgs:
http://www.awmai.org/
http://www.nwmaf.org/

Wow, I didn't know about most of them. Thanks for posting the links.

But, to get back to the original intent of my posts:
How do you teach, or should I say help w/ the development of a good heart within a society that is filled with hate, violence, & discrimination?
How can you/do you select the right students?
Once I get a good student base, this would be done by word of mouth, but, how would I take the 1st step, to do so?
David

You don't focus on society, you don't focus on the hate nor the violence nor the discrimination. You focus on yourself, your teachings, and your students. Being a role model and a good teacher will impart more than you will ever know. Focusing on the student, you get to show each of them what it is to have shin, gi, and tai. You won't be able to change society, but you can influence individuals to be better than what they experience in society.

As for getting students, or a good student. Ugh. In that, I do not know.

Thanks,

dsomers

17th February 2006, 19:09

Thank all of you, for your replies. This has been racking my brains for a while now. Thank you ecspecially Murray San, the answers to my questions, as you have pointed out, are probablly from within. It's a struggle, & Hollywood has not helped to define anything really, martial arts, different cultures, the way people are supposed to look by societies standards, the way they depict violence, & how they portray what/how we as men are supposed to act, among other things. Lots to think, ponder, & pray upon, thats for sure!

David

momoyama katsu

18th February 2006, 02:17

Getting back to the subject at hand; and to try to sift through my original post to get to the essential questions.
How do you teach, or should I say help w/ the development of a good heart within a society that is filled with hate, violence, & discrimination?
Since, I will be teaching out of my house, I cannot accept just anyone. There are many issues that are involved in this. However, my goal is to teach men traditional Okinawan Karate, & Kobudo. I want to help them, & for them to help me, as well, to be better leaders, husbands, fathers, brothers, sons, uncles, etc. I want to have a multi cultured Dojo, where everyone is accepted for who they are, not the way they look. I follow MLK's dream, & this is one of the things I want to impart. I live in the south where racism is still alive, & well. Sometimes it is something taught by parents, familly, friends, etc; other times, it is something learned from life experience. But, my wish, is to teach total Karate Do, the development of Shin, Gi, Tai, to men of all cultures. To teach that there is not bad races, but that there are bad people in every race. Also, society dictates what a person is supposed to look like, we are taught that people are supposed to look like somone that is thin, & trim, muscle bound, etc; But, that this is an image portrayed by hollywood, & we should be taught to look at a person from within, not from their their exterior covering. Some good movies that I would reccomend people to watch, that help illustrate this, & to teach to get over this way of thinking are Shallow Hal, & Something New. To teach men to research, obtain knowledge, impart the knowledge on others, to teach them violence is not the answer, but to defend yourself if the need be, & to express your freedom of speech, but to do so politely, & w/ knowledge, & wisdom. To be a gentle, kind, & caring man. To teach them that it is ok to express your feelings, & emotions, as men; & to be honest law abiding citizens, that want to give back to others, & their communities. I think this post will help describe more of what I want to do, my ideas, my thoughts, & the way I think.
Women have a group that does the same thing, which was built upon the YMCA, it is called the YWCA. You should research it. Here's their site: http://www.ywca.org/site/pp.asp?c=djISI6PIKpG&b=284783 . Women also have health clubs like Shapes, & curves, just for women only. So, I want my Dojo to be something uniquely for men only, to concentrate on the above. Also, doing a websearch, I came across some women only Dojo. Check them out:
http://www.durhamkarate.com/
http://wckc.oceansfree.com/
http://www.karateforwomen.com/default.asp
http://www.members.shaw.ca/dnawata/
I'm sure there are many others. But here is also a womens karate Organization, that seems to be doing the same things I'm talking about, but for women only, ck it out: http://www.womenskaratetour.org/
Here's some other women only orgs:
http://www.awmai.org/
http://www.nwmaf.org/
But, to get back to the original intent of my posts:
How do you teach, or should I say help w/ the development of a good heart within a society that is filled with hate, violence, & discrimination?
How can you/do you select the right students?dave, what do you want to create: a dojo, or a goju ryu karate butsudo monastery? I believe that it is beneficial for men and women to practice together. on a spiritual level (shin): it helps to get over such stupid concepts as "the weaker sex". when my brother started isshinryu he was afraid to practice with females perhaps because of such a concept (never could figure it out!) but he became a much better person after getting beat up by the girls. on the technical level (gi, tai): it is beneficial for males to practice with females because it teaches them to move with grace and finesse rather than just muscling through the techniques and it is beneficial for the females because it teaches them to spar with people who may presumably may be a bit bigger with, perhaps, a bit more upper body strength. and as for shallow hal: more like shallow filmmaker! that movie was all one big fat joke!

dsomers

18th February 2006, 03:23

Whatever! I'm not saying there is wrong w/ training w/ woman. I'm saying, I cant do it at my house, nor would I do it elsewhere privately. Maybe, if I open a commercial Dojo eventually, I will open it up to kids, & women, but cant take the risk at my house.
To answer your question, & to address pretty much what Ed was saying as well, you wrote:
if gojuryu is a way of life than why not start people of on such a path from a young age? should martial arts not be able to adapt for different practitioners? (((serious)))
I think this is can be done, but do I want to? No. Has it been done before? Yes, & you end up w/ systems like USA Goju, & Nisei Goju Ryu. not saying that there is anything wrong w/ it. But, just not for me. The same thing was done when Funakoshi took the Shorin Ryu, or should I say Shuri Te, to japan, began teaching his version of Karate, now known as Shotokan to College kids. Then Gen. Choi Hong Hi studied a bit of Shotokan, Isshin Ryu, then combined it w/ Tae kyun of Korea, & was credited w/ naming what is today known as Tae Kwon Do. The founder of Tang Soo Do Moo Duk kwan, Hwang kee, studied some Okinawan/Japanese Karate books while working at a railroad station in Manchuria, while there he studied TCC under somone named Yang Kuk Jin, & combined it w/ some Tae Kyun movements he learned as a boy while mimicing him, cause he was denied training cause of his age. Everytime something is ommited from the syllabus, to accomadate a student, the art gets watered down. Some of the American systems taught today are unrecognizable from their Okinawan roots, because they have marketed it for the general population. Maybe you can do so, but, I wont compromise my art for nobody. I care too much about it. Imagine if I did start teaching kids this way, then they stop training w/ me after a few years, then they open a school when they get older claiming to teach Traditional Okinawa Goju Ryu, but, how can they, if they dont have the entire system of what makes up Goju Ryu? Ok, how about this, you do Aikido. Do you think you can teach somone Aikido w/o teaching them how to fall? What if you did, then they go, & open a Dojo years later. They start teaching, and somone comes in their Dojo that is an Aiki Kai Yon Dan, just for discussion sake, & see's he's not teaching Ukemi, nor does he know how to fall himself. The Aiki Kai instructor then asks, where did you train? Your student says Colin taught me. Can you see what I am getting at? Then what if your student trains many people in the same way you taught him w/o falling, then one of his students breaks off, & decides Ikkajo-Gokyo are impractical, so they ommit them. Is this still Aikido? Would you be proud, that these students decended from you? Do you think Chiba Shihan would be happy w/ what you have done? Do you think if O'Sensei were still alive, & came to your students, students Dojo, & seen what he is calling Aikido, do you think he would be happy? We, or atleast I have a responsibillity to teach as I am taught, & carry on that tradition. If not, 10, 20, 30 years from now what tradition will you have, if you begin ommitting stuff from the syllabus? Just my thoughts, doesnt make it right, as it is my opinion, & my opinion alone.

David

momoyama katsu

18th February 2006, 09:47

dave, how flattering of you to keep the typos in that quote. but it just isn't vary trendy to quote folks with out the quote code! here's an example:
O'Sensei who's "O'Sensei" isn't he an irish-japanese dude?(((troll))) getting back to your post, it's funny that you should use Aikido example when you do not study Aikido.
Ok, how about this, you do Aikido. Do you think you can teach somone Aikido w/o teaching them how to fall? What if you did, then they go, & open a Dojo years later. They start teaching, and somone comes in their Dojo that is an Aiki Kai Yon Dan, just for discussion sake, & see's he's not teaching Ukemi, nor does he know how to fall himself. The Aiki Kai instructor then asks, where did you train? Your student says Colin taught me. Can you see what I am getting at? Then what if your student trains many people in the same way you taught him w/o falling, then one of his students breaks off, & decides Ikkajo-Gokyo are impractical, so they ommit them. Is this still Aikido? Would you be proud, that these students decended from you? Do you think Chiba Shihan would be happy w/ what you have done? Do you think if O'Sensei were still alive, & came to your students, students Dojo, & seen what he is calling Aikido, do you think he would be happy? why wouldn't I teach ukemi? ukemi is essential for safety whatsits and all that. and any one who has ever taken a gokyo will know it's practical. nekodachi on the other hand... (((serious)))

dsomers

18th February 2006, 15:13

Yes, we know you're a troll, like it says in your profile. Dont know why I keep giving into you, but, here it goes again.
I was using Aiki as an example, that's all, so you can see where I am comming from. If I ommitted the material from my system whould it still be traditional Okinawa Goju Ryu Karate Do? If you ommitted that material I stated from your Aikido, would it still be Aikido? That is what I'm trying to get at.
Yeah, sure I can ommit Hojo Undo, Bunkai, Sanchin, Tensho, Kotikitaie & other forms of body conditioning, along w/ Jiyu Kumite/Iri Kumi from the system. Sure, I can teach them Kihon up, & down the floor all day; & Kata. But, would it still be Traditional Okinawa Goju Ryu karate Do, if I do so? Maybe, others can do so, but, I will not comprimise my art, which I love very much for anybody.
Thats what I was trying to say. Now do you understand?

momoyama katsu

18th February 2006, 16:57

Yes, we know you're a troll, like it says in your profile. Dont know why I keep giving into you, but, here it goes again. you patronized me with a couple "Aiki" examples you got from fudebakudo after I held back from all those "krotty" jokes and karate kid references! who's the troll here?
I ommitted the material from my system whould it still be traditional Okinawa Goju Ryu Karate Do? If you ommitted that material I stated from your Aikido, would it still be Aikido? That is what I'm trying to get at.
Yeah, sure I can ommit Hojo Undo, Bunkai, Sanchin, Tensho, Kotikitaie & other forms of body conditioning, along w/ Jiyu Kumite/Iri Kumi from the system. Sure, I can teach them Kihon up, & down the floor all day; & Kata. But, would it still be Traditional Okinawa Goju Ryu karate Do, if I do so?nobody recommended omitting anything! I do not know what kotegitae is but is it realy more dangerous than: nikyo, a technique that creates the opportunity to break the uke's wrist _and_ shoulder? or perhaps iriminage, a throw so powerful that a realy strong break the uke's neck? these are both thought to children.

dsomers

18th February 2006, 18:37

You wrote:
"you patronized me with a couple "Aiki" examples you got from fudebakudo after I held back from all those "krotty" jokes and karate kid references! who's the troll here? "
I have no clue what you are talking about, you are making no sense, now. If you continue w/ this manner, you will be ignored.
To answer your second question though, Kotekitaie, is forearm conditioning, it is done both in Goju Ryu, & Uechi Ryu. We also condition the legs, chest, & stomach, among other body parts.

momoyama katsu

19th February 2006, 09:47

I have no clue what you are talking about, you are making no sense, now. If you continue w/ this manner, you will be ignored.
thanks for the warning.

To answer your second question though, Kotekitaie, is forearm conditioning, it is done both in Goju Ryu, & Uechi Ryu. We also condition the legs, chest, & stomach, among other body parts.
I see... you can actually teach children and old people that kind of thing... but there is a rule: DO NOT OVER DO IT! the student will know his/her limits and you should respect them but still. you don't have to omit anything that has not already been omitted!