Hitoemi / Body Armour

[Itten]

Hello all,

Can anyone give me more understanding of the hitoemi of Daito Ryu in relation to how armour wearing trained particular ways of moving in straight lines and weight distribution? Also the idea of gravity as a central propulsion as opposed to using leg muscles?
Excuse the vagueness but this is a suspicion of a glimmering of an idea.
regards, Alec

[kimiwane]

Also the idea of gravity as a central propulsion as opposed to using leg muscles?
Excuse the vagueness but this is a suspicion of a glimmering of an idea.
regards, Alec

With regard to gravity and movement, please see the "Aikido Comes from Babies" thread on the aikido forum.

[kimiwane]

Alec,

I notice that you are in the Netherlands. Are you aware of Edgar Kruyning?

You would probably find him interesting. He was a student of Mochizuki sensei and also of Sugino sensei.

Best wishes.

[kokumo]

Hello all,

Can anyone give me more understanding of the hitoemi of Daito Ryu in relation to how armour wearing trained particular ways of moving in straight lines and weight distribution? Also the idea of gravity as a central propulsion as opposed to using leg muscles?
Excuse the vagueness but this is a suspicion of a glimmering of an idea.
regards, Alec

Hello Alec,

It's an interesting question, but as you frame it above, I think you've skipped a fewsteps, simply because they seem so obvious. These would apply to any armored fighting system.

1. I presume that someone would wear armor because it prevents sharp pointy things and edged things from puncturing or cutting them.

2. I presume that hitoemi reduces the available target area for such cuts or punctures.

3. I presume that, as with a breakfull as opposed to a backfall, a solid thwack to the side of my ribs is less likely to knock the wind out of me than the same thwack to the gut or the upper ribcage.

4. I presume that in any kind of group tactics, even small group tactics, would demand that all members of the group can move in a straight line together.

Those elements would be common to just about all sogo bujutsu. How does it relate to the hito-e-mi of Daito Ryu? I couldn't begin to say.....

FL

[cxt]

Another thing it looks like Alec is looking at--please correct me if I am wrong.

Is that the added weight of the armor could be used to enhance the effects of certain impacts or increase the effective force behind various locks, impacts and possibly projections.

Force + technique+ the weight of the armor+gravity etc.

He also seems to be hinting that the armor itself might limit the manner in which people can move---perhaps the reason for more "strightline" or liner techniques as opposed to the more "circular" focus of aikido.

Sounds interesting to me.

Don't know enough about the actual armor used in period Japan to know the extent of its effects.
Seen it, but never trained wearing it.


Chris Thomas

[Itten]

Thanks all for your responses.
Actually what I am thinking about is more to do with how the body stucture learns to distribute the force of gravity, which of course becomes more severe when you add 35 kilos extra. Added to this is the concept of geodesic structures where linear shapes such as triangles and hexagons are linked together in spherical form leading to a light but super strong structure capable of supporting huge weight loads through the redistribution and dissipation of mass. These structures have tensile and elastic strength through a rigidity that moves within itself.
From a combat standpont, of course, hitoemi makes sense as a momentary transition, as do all "stances", but I am thinking about the use of hitoemi as a body training method, not as a combat transition. I believe that some Daito Ryu people have knowledge of this aspect, but that is just instinct talking, no hard facts. Nathan, Dan,???

[Nathan Scott]

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[Itten]

hello Nathan,

Thanks for the spoon. If you dont' mind I'll keep it for a bit and stir with it. :cool:

regards, Alec

[Nathan Scott]

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