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MarkF
4th December 2000, 07:54
Tawara gaeshi. Any descriptions or comments would be very helpful. The how, when, etc.? Which would it counter, if any?

Mark

Neil Yamamoto
4th December 2000, 08:55
I have no real idea except from the name, one book I have translates it as "rice bale throw", so I assume this is a motion similar to stacking rice bales.

Now if a bale is carried on the shoulder, it might be similar to a shoulder throw like seio nage, or if a bale is lifted with a pitch fork, it would be more of a lifting, scooping motion.

Thanks Mark, now I'm gonna be awake all night trying to figure this one out!

Neil

MarkF
5th December 2000, 08:15
At least someone posted and I can smile now. I got an email from someone who says it means "straw bale throw" and is a counter to throws such as morote gari. It is more of a scoop, but upside down and back like ura nage.

Morote gari, is the legalized for judo shiai, double leg tackle. While the tackle is illegal (not good waza), if you lift, throw one or both shoulders into it, holding the legs, it is. Reversing that by grabbing over the back and throwing over the shoulder while falling with uke is like you would with a pitchfork.

Tell me what you come up with, Neil. Figuring things out is how waza gets named and used. With morote gari, someone did the throw and asked sensei, "so this is morote gari, Sensei?" Sometimes ramming your head into the wall feels much better than finding out that illegal leg tackle now is waza.

Judo gets more interesting than most want to know, and this can run a few weeks in the dojo, anyway.:)

Mark

Rob
5th December 2000, 11:52
Mark

We utilise this throw in the Ju Jitsu style I practice.

We use it as a counter to a headlock.

Uke is stood in front of Tori. Uke wraps his right arm around Toris head turning it to the side. The head is tucked under the armpit. Tori counters by applying the same headlock.

Tori's left leg slides forward with the toes inside Uke's toes but the knee on the outside. Torii sits down and 'tosses' Uke over his head.

We generally keep hold of the head so Uke lands still in a head lock.

Looks much worse to fall from than it is. Always popular at demo's.

Jeff Cook
6th December 2000, 20:48
http://judoinfo.com/images/nauta/tawarag.gif

I first encountered this throw in third grade on the playground! :)

Seriously, I have seen it used in one form or another quite frequently; one of my karate instructors also taught a version of it (but he did not have a name for the technique).

The BJJ stylists I have worked with are familiar with the throw, but they usually combine some leg and hip movement with the throw ("sweeping" technique for you BJJ folks who might be reading this, "elevator" technique for the wrestlers:)) so that they can continue their momentum to roll on top of uke into the mount, and quite possibly into a crucifix or neck crank variant.

(I know, Mark, the neck cranks and crucifix are not legal judo techniques, but I couldn't help myself!:) Forgive me?)

Jeff Cook
Wabujitsu

MarkF
7th December 2000, 10:52
Hi, Jeff,
These days I'm usually looking to illegal stuff. This comes natuarally with age, as playing within the rules gets harder.:)

Rob,
That sounds like a "suplex," in your description. There is a page, though, in the shimmeisho waza, or new throws. Morote gari can be seen in Illustrated Kodokan Judo, but tawara gaeshi isn't. This does look like a leg tackle, and you can see how uke may reverse this by grabbing the body over the back of tori, and throwing over your shoulder, as you fall with him.

On the Kodokan website, it is seen more of a shoulder throw, as in this description, you do through the (right) shoulder into it, instead of pushing straight back with both. You would grab the legs, keeping the head up, and as you throw your shoulder into it, lift the legs. Tawara gaeshi would be done just as uke ducks in for the legs, you reach over, grabbing the torso low, and throw backwards.

In reality though, what you describe and what is described by the Kodokan ARE wrestling moves. Whether legal or not, is primarily up to a referee, and there is a fine line, Head locks are not normally allowed, unless part of a katami waza such as kata gatami or kesa gatami.

These throws are worth the practice for the rare occasion to use them, but realistically, are not encountered very often in day to day randori. Another worth knowing is dakiage, a basic body slam done out of the guard position. It is NEVER allowed in randori or shiai.:D

Mark

BTW: Robert, in the case of what you describe, with a natural stance, and breaking uke forward, you might place the foot/lower leg into the crook of the knee, sacrificing yourself as you described, and throwing similar to tomoe nage. You would break balance to the right front corner, and as you step back with the left, you swint under him, pulling to continue kuzushi, placing the foot behind the thigh or knee, and continuing over to the same directon. If done correctly, ukemi would be on the left side, instead of directly on the back.

mike hamel
14th December 2000, 01:55
Its idea comes from picking up a large sack of rice from a stack--- and putting it on your shoulder efficiently.

Also seen same motion in Himalaya region-- men were moving 40-50 kilo sacks of portland cement.