PDA

View Full Version : lining up and bowing



thomas_james
1st March 2006, 18:01
Hello everyone!

I'd like to know how you usually line up at the start of the training. Straight line (white belts left, black belt right), or in a circle? Sensei in front, assistant teachers right in 90 degree to sensei and students or not?
Bowing to sensei and each other or also to shomen?
What does the sensei (or the assistants) say and what do the students repeat?
And how do you close? Who says what???

I think there are different methods.

Regards,

Thomas James

Martin H
1st March 2006, 18:31
It differs between styles, organisation you are part of, country you are in and even between individual dojos which shares all the previous.

There are no universial rules. At best there are vague similarities.

TimoS
1st March 2006, 19:49
Like Martin said, there aren't any universial rules. How we do depends on who is teaching. If sensei himself is present, we line up, with black belts to the right, in ascending order. The senior student is sometimes at a 90 degree angle from the rest and he issues the commands. The full "command sequence" goes like this:

Senior student: Seiza / Chakuza (could be wrong about the spelling on that one)
Sensei: shomen ni rei

everybody bows

Sensei: renshuu hajime masu
Senior student: sensei ni rei

everybody bows

After bows, senior student calls: kiritsu and once standing we bow once more.

That's the full version. Depending on situation somethings are left out

Mind you, if I'm "teaching" (i.e. sensei is not present) I just usually say "Otagai ni rei" from standing and start warm-ups

treesurfer78
1st March 2006, 21:22
Sensei stands at the front

Students line up in front, in rank order.

Sensei: "Rei!"

Everyone kneels, down on the right leg first; back straight, head forwards, hands on thighs

Sensei: "Sensei... ni rei!"

Everyone bows to sensei

Sensei: "Otagai... ni rei!"

Everyone bows together.

Wait for it... wait for it...

Up! :p

thomas_james
1st March 2006, 22:18
It differs between styles, organisation you are part of, country you are in and even between individual dojos which shares all the previous.
There are no universial rules. At best there are vague similarities.

Yes, this is exactly what I'm interested in! The way how different styles and masters do this rather basic procedure. :)

-Thomas James

Martin H
3rd March 2006, 13:57
The kyokushin version. official version where I am and roughly the same everywhere.

Everyone lines up (traditionaly this is done to a drum and a command "chant" from the drummer in beat to the drum, but few does that since few dojos has a actual drum. usualy it is reserved for very formal occations). Highest graded front line right, and then descending seniority falling down the line and commencing from the right in the second line.

Sensei (or highest graded instructor present)in front facing students. Assistant teachers lining up on senseis right.
High ranking outside guest may be placed at the "end" of the assistant instructors line.

Sensei (or highest graded):”seiretsu”.
Everyone comes to "attention" in correct fudodachi (I know that fudo dachi is used for other positions in other styles) , closed fist slightly lifted by the elbows, not held open palmed to the sides.
(note, when no drumroll is given people usualy start forming the line at the "seiretsu" command)

When all is lined up correctly sensei (and assistant teachers) turn around to face shomen.
Sensei (or highest graded): "Seiza"
All kneels. fist (not open hands) resting on tights.
Sensei (or highest graded): "Shomen ni rei". (or shinden, if there is a formal shrine at the shomen)
Everyone bows silently, placing fists (not open palms on the floor).
Sensei (or highest graded) :”Mokuso”
Everyone closes eyes for short meditation.
Sensei (or highest graded) :”mokuso yame”
Meditation over everyone opens their eyes.

Sensei (or highest graded):”Sosai ni rei”
Everyone bows silently, fist to floor.
Sensei (or highest graded) and assistants turn (still on knees) to students.
Senior student: ”Sempai/sensei/Shihan ni rei” (depending on grade of the main teacher present, sensei is not used untill 3rd dan in kyokushin).
Everyone bows, fist on floor and answers "osu".

Sensei (or highest graded): ”Tatte kudasai”
Everyone stands up.
Sensei (or highest graded):”keiko ni harimasu” .
Training begins.


It is not uncommon to shorten this procedure a bit. Usualy by cuting out the kneeling part, doing it all from standing position.

Gibukai
3rd March 2006, 14:44
Hello,

in the case of my group there is no opening and no closing ceremony at all (i.e. no lining up, no Sensei ni Rei etc.).

Regards,

Henning Wittwer

TEA
3rd March 2006, 16:01
My first school: beginning of class, everyone lines up according to rank facing forward with the instructor in front of the class. Commands - "Charyot! Subumnin ke kyongye!" End of class: line up the same way, warm down exercizes followed by meditation in seiza. After meditation, from seiza, everyone bowed to a picture of our instructor's instructor, then to the instructor, and class ended. Commands: "Face Master Choi! Bow!" (everyone bows and says "Thank you Master Choi." Then, "Face forward! Subumnin ke kyongye! Class dismissed."

Other dojang I've been to have a pretty standard ritual. Beginning of class, everyone lines up according to rank, bows to the flag and then bows to the instructor. End of class, bow to the flag, bow to the assistant black belt instructors, then bow to the lead instructor. Commands: "Charyot! Kuki e yongye! Subumnin ke kyongye!"

Brian Owens
4th March 2006, 09:26
I've got to think back a few years for this, and I may get some of it wrong (particualrly my Japanese terms), but here goes.

From a small Shito Ryu dojo in the late 1970s:

Class lines up by rank, higher ranks to the right, facing shomen. (During large classes, the ranks are divided into rows with higher ranking rows in front.)

Sensei: Kiotsuke! (Students come to attention)
Sensei: Rei! (Students and sensei bow to each other)
Sensei: Seiza (All kneel)
Sensei: (turns and faces shomen) Shomen ni tashite...Rei! (All bow toward shomen)
Sensei: [I'm really unsure about the words here] Koke ni mukate...Rei! (All bow toward something, can't recall what. Flag?)
Sensei turns back to face class
Senior Student: Sensei, ________________ [Can't recall; something to the effect of "Please teach us.") (Students bow to sensei)
Sensei: Tate!!! (All jump to their feet with kiai, and assume "fighting stance")
Class begins

The ending was the same, except immediately after assuming seiza sensei commands "Mokuso!" and after a few moments ends the meditation with "Mokuso yame."

Also, the "Sensei, __________" part is replaced with "Sensei, Arigato Gozaimasu."

This is quite different from my kenjutsu/jodo dojo, where the senior student did most of the talking (plus, of course, all the attendant rituals of handling/positioning the sword, etc.).

thomas_james
4th March 2006, 22:50
in the case of my group there is no opening and no closing ceremony at all (i.e. no lining up, no Sensei ni Rei etc.).


Could you tell us more about your group?

-Thomas James

Nyuck3X
5th March 2006, 05:57
Senior Student: Sensei, ________________ [Can't recall; something to the effect of "Please teach us.") (Students bow to sensei)


Could it have been; Onigaishimasu? (sp?)

Brian Owens
5th March 2006, 09:54
Could it have been; Onigaishimasu? (sp?)
It's possible.

We said onegaishimasu prior to starting a workout with a new partner in my other dojo, I hear it at Aikido dojo, etc. Faily common in these contexts. So it could have been. I just don't recall.

Gibukai
6th March 2006, 09:36
Mr. James,

this is nothing spectacular. A Shotokan teacher, T. Kase, explained, for example, that all the lining up etc. in the beginning of a class is especially important for young children in order to enable better concentration. He was also of the opinion that older people should be able to concentrate here and now, and therefore there should be no need for them to follow this procedure. Of course it is possible to argue if this is right or wrong...

Regards,

Henning Wittwer