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George Kohler
1st April 2006, 01:28
Does anyone know who Fujita learn Shinto Muso-ryu from? Just wondering because of his jojutsu book.

Fred27
1st April 2006, 06:52
:rolleyes: Is this the same dude as in "Fujita Seiko: Last of the Koga Ninja"-fame?

George Kohler
1st April 2006, 07:28
It sure is. He wrote a book about Shinto Muso-ryu jojutsu back in the 50's or 60's. It doesn't have pictures but it does have diagrams. It came with 3 other books that made a 4 volume set entitled Chosakushu. The four titles are listed below.

Shurikenjutsu Zukai (Illustrated Shuriken)
Hojojutsu Zukai (Illustrated Rope Tying)
Kenpo Gokui Atemi Sakkatsuho Zukai (Illustrated Secret Kenpo killing strikes)
Shinto Muso Ryu Jojutsu Zukai (Illustrated Shinto Muso-ryu Jojutsu)

Fred27
1st April 2006, 08:53
It sure is. He wrote a book about Shinto Muso-ryu jojutsu back in the 50's or 60's. It doesn't have pictures but it does have diagrams. It came with 3 other books that made a 4 volume set entitled Chosakushu. The four titles are listed below.

Shurikenjutsu Zukai (Illustrated Shuriken)
Hojojutsu Zukai (Illustrated Rope Tying)
Kenpo Gokui Atemi Sakkatsuho Zukai (Illustrated Secret Kenpo killing strikes)
Shinto Muso Ryu Jojutsu Zukai (Illustrated Shinto Muso-ryu Jojutsu)

If he was taught SMR in the 1940's, 1950's, then maybe we can assume he was taught by any of the three main sensei of the times: Shimizu Takaji, Otofuji Ichizo and Takayama Kiroku.

ChrisMoon
1st April 2006, 08:57
I have in my notes that he was taught by Ueno Takashi and whoever Ueno's teacher in SMR was. I do not have a source for that other than one of Kaminaga Shigemi's students,

George Kohler
1st April 2006, 09:03
I have in my notes that he was taught by Ueno Takashi and whoever Ueno's teacher in SMR was. I do not have a source for that other than one of Kaminaga Shigemi's students,

Ahh... Uchida Ryohei's line.

ChrisMoon
1st April 2006, 09:13
Thats the name I was looking for!

George Kohler
1st April 2006, 09:17
From what I understand it was a kodokan person that learned it from Uchida. One pamphlet has his name as Hioki Ryuusuke.

ChrisMoon
1st April 2006, 09:40
From what I understand it was a kodokan person that learned it from Uchida. One pamphlet has his name as Hioki Ryuusuke.

You are right George. In the Ueno Memorial book it says Ueno Takashi learned from him and that he was at the Kodokan. It is interesting because at the same time Shimizu Sensei was at the Kodokan, I am pretty sure. So I am wondering if there was any interaction there.

I just remembered, the same student told me that Fujita's book was based on densho that Ueno had written for him.

Fred27
1st April 2006, 09:44
Did Uchida Ryohei ever achieve Menkyo by the way?

Ellis Amdur
1st April 2006, 18:51
FWIW - is this not a connection between Fujita and Takamatsu, through Ueno Takashi? Not that they wouldn't/shouldn't have known each other, but here is a nearly direct link.

Best

George Kohler
1st April 2006, 23:07
FWIW - is this not a connection between Fujita and Takamatsu, through Ueno Takashi? Not that they wouldn't/shouldn't have known each other, but here is a nearly direct link.

Best

Funny you mention this. Seems they (Ueno and Fujita) were very good friends and Ueno also taught him Asayama Ichiden-ryu and Shinto Tenshin-ryu. But, as far as I know, none of the schools from Takamatsu Sensei were taught to Fujita.

JasonW
13th April 2006, 16:08
Fujita Seiko was also supposedly the last lineage holder of Shingetsu Ryu shuriken-jutsu. I am hoping to find who he learned that from. Any ideas? I am thinking it may have been an art attendant to one of the sword arts...

cheers,

Jason

onewiththewind
29th September 2006, 01:42
It sure is. He wrote a book about Shinto Muso-ryu jojutsu back in the 50's or 60's. It doesn't have pictures but it does have diagrams. It came with 3 other books that made a 4 volume set entitled Chosakushu. The four titles are listed below.

Shurikenjutsu Zukai (Illustrated Shuriken)
Hojojutsu Zukai (Illustrated Rope Tying)
Kenpo Gokui Atemi Sakkatsuho Zukai (Illustrated Secret Kenpo killing strikes)
Shinto Muso Ryu Jojutsu Zukai (Illustrated Shinto Muso-ryu Jojutsu)

Hello, Does any one know where I can find or buy these books?


Brandon Mazingo

Mekugi
27th November 2006, 03:18
Oddly enough...
There is a listing in the book Budo Nippon ( Morikawa Tetsuro, 39 Showa. Page 106; Press Tokyo.) for Shinto Muso Ryu. It lists Shimizu sensei's major students and glory be there lies Fujita Seiko's name!! Is it accurate? I have no idea, but the other names that it lists are spot on, even with very accurate details.
I have also been closely looking through Seiko's atemi book and noticed that it has a "striking" similarity to Ichiden Ryu's atemi. Interesting.

-Russ

bushikan
27th November 2006, 03:27
Did Uchida Ryohei ever achieve Menkyo by the way?

I believe Uchida Ryohei recieved a Menkyo Kaiden , because he issued Nakayama Hakudo one.

JasonW
27th November 2006, 04:59
>Hello, Does any one know where I can find or buy these books?

Now that buyubooks has closed down, I have no idea where they can be got. Perhaps through ebay in Japan.

I'm lucky I got my Shuriken Zukai by Fujita from them when I did...

cheers,

Mekugi
27th November 2006, 14:08
>Hello, Does any one know where I can find or buy these books?

Now that buyubooks has closed down, I have no idea where they can be got. Perhaps through ebay in Japan.

I'm lucky I got my Shuriken Zukai by Fujita from them when I did...

cheers,

I can get all of these books.

Just drop me a line.

-Russ

paul browne
2nd December 2006, 12:32
Hello gents,

With reference to the atemi book by Seiko Fujita I was wondering if any of you were familiar with'
L'art Sublime et Ultime des points de vie (Relié) by Henri Plee.

I understand it was written in conjuction with Seiko Fujita and was wondering whether it is worth getting. I haven't been able to look at this at all but as I can muddle through in French thought it might be worth it's cost.
Thank you for your time
Paul

George Kohler
3rd December 2006, 08:07
It lists Shimizu sensei's major students and glory be there lies Fujita Seiko's name!! Is it accurate? I have no idea, but the other names that it lists are spot on, even with very accurate details.

Are you saying that Fujita was a student of Shimizu?

Mekugi
3rd December 2006, 13:39
Are you saying that Fujita was a student of Shimizu?

I'm not saying it...but merely repeating the way it appears in the book (unless I am mistaken). I can scan the page if anyone wants to see it.

t.matsutaka
3rd December 2006, 14:36
I'm not saying it...but merely repeating the way it appears in the book (unless I am mistaken). I can scan the page if anyone wants to see it.Yes thank you. I would like to have that scan.

Mekugi
4th December 2006, 18:33
This list is found on page 129. I tried to attach a larger scan of the entire page, but the size limit on e-budo keeps it from being legible. Looking back at this with a keener eye, it appears that Mr. Fujita may have just been a "junior" to Shimizu sensei- although I am not sure how to interpret that because Mr. Fujita was in Tokyo for the mostpart.

Eric Montes
4th December 2006, 19:37
Russ,
My Japanese is not good these days, but that list appears to the board of directors for the Zen Nihon Jodo Renmei. Not a lineage chart.

t.matsutaka
4th December 2006, 20:15
Yes. Now I see it I agree with Mr. Montes that is not a chart of lineage but a list giving the board of directors for the Zen Nihon Jodo Renmei (presumable at the time of printing)

Mekugi
5th December 2006, 14:31
Russ,
My Japanese is not good these days, but that list appears to the board of directors for the Zen Nihon Jodo Renmei. Not a lineage chart.


Yes. Now I see it I agree with Mr. Montes that is not a chart of lineage but a list giving the board of directors for the Zen Nihon Jodo Renmei (presumable at the time of printing)
Ahem...
A lineage chart? Where are you getting this? I never said it was a lineage chart, did I? Looking back, I cannot find it in anything I have written. Please show me where I said this and quote me. While we are on this, I never said it was a barrel of monkeys either. :) Matter of fact, I was vague and it seems some blanks were filled in.

I said it was a list, and that it had most all of his major students...and there within them lies Fujita Seiko's name.
Let me re-quote for posterity:

There is a listing in the book Budo Nippon ( Morikawa Tetsuro, 39 Showa. Page 106; Press Tokyo.) for Shinto Muso Ryu. It lists Shimizu sensei's major students and glory be there lies Fujita Seiko's name!! Is it accurate? I have no idea, but the other names that it lists are spot on, even with very accurate details.

Futhermore, there are several pictures of Shimizu sensei and Fujita Seiko in public settings floating around.

Eric Montes
5th December 2006, 17:26
Russ,
Correct. You didn't say it... but
George Kohler wrote:

Are you saying that Fujita was a student of Shimizu?
and you replied:

I'm not saying it...but merely repeating the way it appears in the book (unless I am mistaken)

I am just saying that lineage considerations cannot be extrapolated from this list. Otofuji Sensei is also listed there.

Since this is the Board of Directors, I would expect that several people listed there had no Jo rank/relationship whatsoever and may have come from other Renmei/arts.

I have no other information on Fujita's relationship to Shimizu Sensei, so I cannot comment beyond that having his name listed there does not make him a student of Shimizu S. or of SMR.

Best,
Eric

Mekugi
6th December 2006, 13:19
I never wrote that Fujita Seiko was a student of Shimizu sensei's, so please do not accuse me of that. As a matter of fact, I stated that I never said it; merely describing what the book had in it- a list of names with many of Shimizu's students with Fujita's name in it (please re-read the quote you posted in its entirety). Again, I never implied in any way, shape or form that it was a lineage chart (the first mention of this is by you).
I explained what I saw, nothing more- nothing less because I don't know what it means about Fujita Seiko's training in Jo. Please also notice I opened the first post of this with the word "ODDLY."

I really enjoy that fact that I can speak for myself, so please don't attempt to explain what I said to me. :)






I am just saying that lineage considerations cannot be extrapolated from this list. Otofuji Sensei is also listed there.

Since this is the Board of Directors, I would expect that several people listed there had no Jo rank/relationship whatsoever and may have come from other Renmei/arts.

I have no other information on Fujita's relationship to Shimizu Sensei, so I cannot comment beyond that having his name listed there does not make him a student of Shimizu S. or of SMR.

Best,
Eric

henso
10th December 2006, 21:24
Gentlemen,

Perhaps I can add an interesting bit of info that might be meaningful. Shimizu is listed prominently among those who attended Fujita's funeral, which is highly suggestive of a relationship between them. http://fujitaseiko.tripod.com/page9.html.

Concerning the observation by Russ that Fujita's kyusho/atemi book looks similar to that of Ichiden-ryu, I'd say that there may be something to his conclusion, as this art is listed as being a component of Fujita's Juhappan.

Returning to Jojutsu, does anyone here have any information about Fujita's Daien-ryu Jojutsu? I have a photocopy of his makimono from the same source as the obituary, but there is some difficulty with translating it due to blurring/pixelation.

Earl Hartman
12th December 2006, 22:37
Russ:

I read your post pretty much the way Eric did. It seems clear that this quote is the source of the confusion:


Oddly enough...
There is a listing in the book Budo Nippon ( Morikawa Tetsuro, 39 Showa. Page 106; Press Tokyo.) for Shinto Muso Ryu. It lists Shimizu sensei's major students and glory be there lies Fujita Seiko's name!! Is it accurate? I have no idea, but the other names that it lists are spot on, even with very accurate details.

It is true that you question whether this is accurate, but your general tone seems to indicate that since the list "lists Shimizu Sensei's major students", you speculate that Fujita may have been one of them.

However, as others have pointed out already, this is not a list of Shimizu Sensei's students, or a list of the Shinto Muso Ryu, it is a list of the officials of the All Nippon Jodo Federation. Many of Shimizu Sensei's students may be on this list, but that does not make it a listing of his students. I think you were probably aware of that, but your post gives a different impression.

Fujita may or may not have been a student of Shimizu S. I don't really know or care. But this list doesn't prove anything one way or the other.

Mekugi
13th December 2006, 16:34
It is true that you question whether this is accurate, but your general tone seems to indicate that since the list "lists Shimizu Sensei's major students", you speculate that Fujita may have been one of them.

Actually, I didn't contend, postulate or speculate that Fujita Seiko was a student of Shimizu Takaji's. In fact, in answering George's post, I stated *just that*. I am not sure how one gets tone from written material, but I'll take your word on it.

I repeat, I did not say that Fujita Seiko was a student of Shimizu sensei's anywhere and this summarizes the majority of the posts that follow my original- including this one.

Furthermore, I cannot be responsible for what other people assume, believe or think based on what I have not said. I can only attempt to explain what I mean if the question arises on what I have said, or convey what I intended to say if there is confusion.

Kudos,

henso
13th December 2006, 17:46
I have read the original post by Russ and all his subsequent ones, and no where do I see anything that recommends that his post be interpreted as many have. In addition to this, I might not sure how it adds to the quality of the discourse in this forum to ignore the interesting documentation Russ submitted, and instead launch into frenzied criticism of his writing style.

It would be nice to hear anything of substance that is responsive to the material Russ introduced. Even rumor would be preferable to pointless unresponsive arguement.

Mekugi
14th December 2006, 06:29
I have read the original post by Russ and all his subsequent ones, and no where do I see anything that recommends that his post be interpreted as many have. In addition to this, I might not sure how it adds to the quality of the discourse in this forum to ignore the interesting documentation Russ submitted, and instead launch into frenzied criticism of his writing style.
I wrote the (those) post (s) hastily, without any editing and my writing style is indeed subject to criticism- I admit that openly. I'm not a professional writer, nor did I had the time to edit those posts the way I would have liked to, and verily, that is my fault. Yet, it seems no matter how many times I have explained myself regarding the vagueness of my original post(s), the argument has turned into one of ad hominem . I am writing the same thing over (and over,) which certainly is not only redundant (redundant) but counterproductive (counterproductive). This is of course, killing a thread that is interesting and fun...
Then again, maybe that is the intent...
Always,

Fred27
14th December 2006, 06:49
or, as I believe Aristoteles put it: **** happens! :p

JasonW
14th December 2006, 07:31
Well, at least we have established that the idea of there not being any connection between Fujita and Shimizu is not true.

Shikiyanaka
19th January 2008, 19:11
This list is found on page 129. I tried to attach a larger scan of the entire page, but the size limit on e-budo keeps it from being legible. Looking back at this with a keener eye, it appears that Mr. Fujita may have just been a "junior" to Shimizu sensei- although I am not sure how to interpret that because Mr. Fujita was in Tokyo for the mostpart.


This list is found on page 129. I tried to attach a larger scan of the entire page, but the size limit on e-budo keeps it from being legible. Looking back at this with a keener eye, it appears that Mr. Fujita may have just been a "junior" to Shimizu sensei- although I am not sure how to interpret that because Mr. Fujita was in Tokyo for the mostpart.


This list is found on page 129. I tried to attach a larger scan of the entire page, but the size limit on e-budo keeps it from being legible. Looking back at this with a keener eye, it appears that Mr. Fujita may have just been a "junior" to Shimizu sensei- although I am not sure how to interpret that because Mr. Fujita was in Tokyo for the mostpart.

http://www.e-budo.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=10130&stc=1&d=1165257176
I don't know if this got clear, 'cause I didn't read all the following posts, but the list gives the offices and office holders of the Zen Nihon Jodo Renmei.
The offices are:
会長 president; chairman
福会長 vice-president; vice-chairman
理事長 Chairman of the Managing Board
常任理事 Executive Members of the Managing Board
etc.

Both Shimizu and Fujita were Executive Members of the Managing Board.

BTW, I found this thread when looking for Infos on Fujita's 4 Volume Work. I will soon receive it from Japan. If you're interested in purchasing, take a look here (http://shop.strato.de/epages/61313432.sf/en_US/?ViewObjectID=4897648). I will be in Japan for five weeks, so I will only be able to review the books when I'am back and make a decision on the price. It is also probable that I'll keep 'em...

henso
30th January 2008, 03:48
More information about the above individual will soon be available via the following link:http://www2.xlibris.com/bookstore/browse_results.asp?page=97&letter=f&type=alpha

Mekugi
30th January 2008, 14:13
[IMG]

BTW, I found this thread when looking for Infos on Fujita's 4 Volume Work. I will soon receive it from Japan. If you're interested in purchasing, take a look here (http://shop.strato.de/epages/61313432.sf/en_US/?ViewObjectID=4897648). I will be in Japan for five weeks, so I will only be able to review the books when I'am back and make a decision on the price. It is also probable that I'll keep 'em...

You can still find these books in stores over here. They are pretty common. There are also tons of used ones floating about. FYI :)

Tengu
12th August 2008, 08:15
Funny I stepped with this thread
I just posted in the Ninjutsu section about Fujita Seiko

When Kaminoda Sensei Come to Brazil in 2005 said that Shimizu Sensei and Fujita Seiko was some kind of Friends.
I remember this especially because of one tale Kaminoda Sensei told about Fujita and never forgotten.
But he didn't said anything about Fujita Seiko train with anyone.
As Kaminoda Sensei was being translated I cannot assure the information, but I think it's reliable.

Sorry for my sloppy English

pboylan
17th August 2008, 04:33
Hello, Does any one know where I can find or buy these books?


Brandon Mazingo

Hi Brandon,
This is a shameless plug. I sell them at Mugendo.
Torinawajutsu is at
http://budogu.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product468.html
I don't think I have the other three in stock, but they are no problem to get. Shoot me an email off-line if you're interested.