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Galen
2nd April 2006, 00:18
hello everyone,
i am getting into iaido and I need to purchase an iaito.
i was thinking of buying this (http://www.e-bogu.com/Tokujo_Jidai_Koshirae_p/hir-iai-iai-tokujo--.htm) but i'd like to know your guys opinion before i invest. Can you link me to a better iaito for the same or cheaper price?
I hope this is the right forum. Thanks guys!

- Galen Howe -

socho
2nd April 2006, 00:32
Hi Galen, welcome to e-budo. The iaito you picked is a nice one, and e-bogu is a good place to get one, but that one is specifically for kendo no kata. That means it is heavier than average, made to take some impact. I would not recommend this one for a beginner. This one (http://japanesesword.net/eng/iaito/itb.html) is in your price range and has some nice options, more choices here (http://www.bogubag.com/Swords/Swords/Jidai_Swords/jidai_swords.html) . You might also try Tozando.com, or Gichudo, a seller on ebay from Japan.
Have fun,

Dave

p.s., this will probably move to the 'sword question' area.

Galen
2nd April 2006, 00:40
am i correct in saying that this sword is $250 USD?
the only problem i have is (a) i will get charged brokerage and border fees ( i am in canada, but if i order from the states i can just cross the border and pick it up) and (b) it takes 3 months to order
any american stores sell that?
thank you once again!

- Galen Howe -

hyaku
2nd April 2006, 01:10
Hello Galen Where are you practicing? Thing is your sensei or a sempai is the best person to ask about this. They would know the best length, best brands and what is available for the money you have. Go too cheap and you may end up with a wallhanger.

Best of luck.

Galen
2nd April 2006, 01:50
thanks, i have emailed him!
I just wanted to get an idea of what others on these boards are using incase my teacher gives me a narrow minded view or wants me to buy from him.
thanks!

- Galen Howe -

Steven Miranda
2nd April 2006, 04:57
Well I know absolutely *zip* about katana's and iaito's, but I did come across this (http://www.martialartsmart.net/3514k.html) and the weight, length and descriptions appear to be inline with the other's mentioned. But for much less, which I realize, you get what you pay for.

socho
2nd April 2006, 05:14
nope, not even close. piece o'junk, IMO.

Dave

Galen
2nd April 2006, 05:33
thanks everyone!
but yeah, i really don't want to cheap out on my sword, and I do not want to buy from Japan. I am looking at some other swords, but once again, if you guys can post your swords or swords i should take a look at and consider please do!

- Galen Howe -

Chuck.Gordon
2nd April 2006, 06:08
Heya Galen,

I second Hyaku's advice heartily (talk to your teacher), but if you must buy for yourownself, go talk to Kim Taylor at SDK Supplies (http://sdksupplies.netfirms.com/) in Guelph, Ontario.

cg

Galen
2nd April 2006, 06:08
id edit my previous post, but it seems to be gone.....the edit button that is.
i've been looking hard at this (http://www.budo-aoi.com/iaito/iaito/01_std_jidai.html), watcha think?

- Galen Howe -

hyaku
2nd April 2006, 06:34
thanks, i have emailed him!
I just wanted to get an idea of what others on these boards are using incase my teacher gives me a narrow minded view or wants me to buy from him.
thanks!

- Galen Howe -

So where do you practice Galen?

Clarito Zapanta
2nd April 2006, 07:17
i recommend japanese iaito.

Brian Owens
2nd April 2006, 07:57
i recommend japanese iaito.
It's okay; the iaito recommended above -- those carried by Tozando, SDK, E-Bogu, BoguBag, etc. -- are Japanese-made.

But, except for Tozando, the distributors are based in North America. That helps with Customs and tarriffs, as the importers take care of those details.

HTH.

Brian Owens
2nd April 2006, 08:11
...i've been looking hard at this (http://www.budo-aoi.com/iaito/iaito/01_std_jidai.html), watcha think?
Aoi Budogu has an advantage for you in that they are in Canada; British Columbia in their case.

Be sure to talk to your teacher before ordering to get his advice on what length of blade you get. The "rule of thumb" posted on some Web sites is just that -- a guide -- and your teacher may have more specific guidelines based on the particular ryu as well as your personal needs.

Good luck.

Galen
2nd April 2006, 14:34
thanks guys!
I currently practice in Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada and I will be startingin June, so I have time to save up for gear.
i did not know that the sword i sought was in Canada, thats even better. But what do you think of the quality?

- Galen Howe -

hyaku
2nd April 2006, 15:26
thanks guys!
I currently practice in Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada and I will be startingin June, so I have time to save up for gear.
i did not know that the sword i sought was in Canada, thats even better. But what do you think of the quality?
- Galen Howe -

Sorry but I dont understand. You say, "You are practicing" then, "You are starting". Which is it?. If you have not started "Don't buy one".

Looking at the Thunder Bay images page I see Ohmi Sensei, Ed Chart and quite few others I know in the photo taken in the hall at Guelph Uni. I am guessing Taylor Sensei took the shot. I can't think for a minute why you should think you will get a narrow minded view. Like you everyone else tries to get the best they can for the money. Hurry up and get some advice, buy one and get to the seminar at the end of May in Guelph. You will learn a lot.

P.s I will be there.

Brian Owens
3rd April 2006, 01:14
I currently practice in Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada...

i did not know that the sword i sought was in Canada, thats even better. But what do you think of the quality?
The store is in Canada, but they may or may not have any particular sword on the shelf. Usually they order them from Japan at the time of purchase, and you have to wait a while.

There are actually only a few manufacturers in Japan, and most of the shops and on-line retailers get their parts from the same suppliers and then assemble them, or even have them made to order and then pass them on under their own label. So if you order a Japanese-made iaito there isn't a lot of difference from brand to brand. The biggest difference will be based on the price level. A $250.00 sword generally won't have the fit and finish of a $500.00 sword, and so on.

(And of course the sub-$100.00 swords sold by places like AWMA, Century, Martial Arts Mart, et al (which are not, AFAIK, made in Japan) are junk, not worth hanging on the wall, and too dangerous to ever bring into the dojo.)

Since you're in Ontario, do give SDK Supplies a look. (The link was posted above by Chuck Gordon.) They're in your own home province which has several advantages. Also, the proprietor -- Kim Taylor -- is an active sword practitioner and a member of this forum.

Lastly, check with your sensei. You'll possibly start out using a bokken before moving up to an iaito, and when you do move up you may be able to start with a borrowed iaito that belongs to the club. That would give you more time to save up for a higher grade model and also give you and your sensei a better idea of what size and weight of blade to get.

HTH.

Galen
3rd April 2006, 02:06
The only thing putting me off of SDK is that their prices are very, very expensive. in terms of the uniform, i was going to buy this (http://www.budo-aoi.com/iaito/wears/hakama_index.html), this (http://www.budo-aoi.com/iaito/wears/gi_002.html), and this (http://www.budo-aoi.com/iaito/wears/obi_002.html). They seem like good quality and they are a lot cheaper than SDK, including the price conversion.
what do you think of the make of those items?

- Galen Howe -

glad2bhere
3rd April 2006, 02:24
Dear Galen:

It is too early for you to buy this item. I know this because you are approaching strangers to get answers that you obviously do not feel comfortable approaching your own teacher and seniors for.

You are still in a place with your training, physically and mentally, that a mok gom (J. "Bok ken") will be more than adequate. You want something closer to a "real" sword so that you will feel as though what you are doing is more authentic. Unfortunately, that authenticity can only come from inside your own fervor and commitment to the art and not from some fancy item. The fact that you are haggling price tells me also that you are interested in an impulse purchase rather than saving your money to purchase an item worthy of your art.

I am sure that if you just GOOGLE around a bit you will get your answers. Perhaps it would be more respectful if you did not work so hard to have people solve the issues that you yourself ought be addressing. You asked for advice and my contribution is that you reach inside and find the strength to approach your own sword master for guidance and to abide by his information whatever it is. Good Luck.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

Brian Owens
3rd April 2006, 09:22
...what do you think of the make of those items?
Before ordering that "Iai Obi" make sure your sensei (or, based on one of your recent posts, should I say "prospective sensei") thinks it will be okay.

My sensei, and some other practitioners that I know, think they're too narrow (they're not much wider than a karate/judo obi), although they are long enough. The wider "kaku obi" give more support to the saya, and are what I prefer, although many iaidoka do use the other kind just fine. Different strokes, as they say.

Michael Hodge
5th April 2006, 23:00
(a) i will get charged brokerage and border fees ( i am in canada, but if i order from the states i can just cross the border and pick it up)


Anything that isn't flagged as duty free and over 60 dollars Canadian you'll have to pay brokerage fees, duty and taxes for. That means you'll be paying more on that iaito.

You can try crossing the border to pick the sword up, but you'll still have to pay at least duty and taxes. If you're hoping to escape all of that, bear in mind it's a crime of federal proportions if they find out. You'll really need to be on your toes if you make the attempt.

Michael Hodge

rwhamm
28th April 2006, 03:27
Galen, I have been practicing Iaido for many years now, and I own my own sword store. you can view my swords online at www.swordseller.biz. It is important to practice with a quality Iaito, as you know, and you seem to be on the right track. If you decide to view my store you will be very happy with the selection and if there is something unique you would like done then you can email me at rob@swordseller.biz. But for now here are a few thoughts to consider.

1- Blade composition
What type of blade do you want. For an Iaito you have many choices, from corrigated stainless steel (not 440 SS) aluminum aloy, to high carbon steel. These paly a big role in your art. Not to mention at least 3/4 to full tang. anything else will not do.
2- Mune
How would you like the blade ridge to be shaped. there are many options from riged, sloped, curved and crested. many of these shapes transfer the energy in the blade in different ways.
3- Tsuka
The handle may be made of many different woods, Japanese Green Oak being quite traditional, and covered with or without ray skin, and wrapped with either leather of cord. This selection will affect your grip. I like leather and rayskin for kata, and rayskin and cord for cuts. Its up to you.
4- Tsuba
The handguard may be made from many materials, brass being your best choice in my opnion. You may like to consider a zinc oxide finish to gice the brass an old world look.
5- Habaki
In my opnion the Hibaki (sword collar) is the most impotrant part of the sword, second to the blade. There are many choices to chose from, but again i suggest brass without any "carved out" design. this piece holds the sword blade directly in the tsuka so you will want one that is very strong. That is why I dont like the ones that are carved into a design.

so there you have it. A few thoughts on the subject. I hope I have helped your decision become easer to make.

JAnstey
28th April 2006, 04:21
Hi Galen

I second Hyaku's comments. also seminars will often have special deals on iaito etc. Speak to Kim Taylor SDK he seems like a very no-hype, upfront fellow. Experienced Iaidoka selling Iai gear - you can't really go far wrong there.

Often there will be someone at your new/potential dojo that will be upgrading to new gear and will be reselling their current gear at a reasonable price.

Another suggestion is to use the dojo bokuto and wear regular loose clothingwhile you save the extra $$ for the tools that will last you for a decent time.

Finally, don't leave your Sensei out of the loop, I have had many a student purchase unsuitable equipment in their haste and enthusiasm to get their kit. Too long, too short, too heavy, too light, ankle freezing hakama, super wide, super thin obi etc.

Good luck with it

Cheers

Jason

Brian Owens
28th April 2006, 04:22
...Habaki

...this piece holds the sword blade directly in the tsuka so you will want one that is very strong.
Mr. Hamm,

I don't quite understand this comment. Can you explain in more detail how the habaki holds the blade in the tsuka? I always thought it was the mekugi that held the blade in the tsuka via the mekugi ana.

rwhamm
28th April 2006, 04:53
You are right about the Mekugi. They hold the blade in place within the tsuka. The Habaki is the brass fitting that grabs the Ha-Machi (the notch in the sword blade that begins the tang - refer to http://www.swordseller.biz/swordinfo.html) and through the tension of the menugi (peg) ,being inserted into the menugi-ani, (hole in the tang that the menugi fits into) holds the sword blade centered and flush with the tsuka. Without the Habaki the sword would flap from side to side comming out of the tsuka. The menugi and habaki are similar in the fact that they both secure the sword blade in the tsuka, but they perform seperate functions. Its easier to understand if you view the picture. Please note that the Ha-Machi is not pointed out in the photo on my website, but you can identify it by looking for the notch on the tang close up. if you see the notch then be happy because you are looking at the Ha-Machi.

If you were to put togather a katana you would slide the habaki onto the blade followed by a seppa (washer) then the tsuba and another seppa, then the tsuka. you would then use a rubber hammer and tap the Kashira until every part i mentioned fight tight into place and then you would insert the menugi.

I hope this helps. Please feel free to ask me about anything else you may need help with.

rwhamm
28th April 2006, 05:11
revised as follows:
you would then use a rubber hammer and tap the Kashira until every part i mentioned fit tight in place and then you would insert the mekugi.

Douglas Wylie
28th April 2006, 05:41
I dont really want to kill your marketing effort here but for the new guy's benefit, I wouldnt allow any sword from your site in my dojo.

rwhamm
28th April 2006, 06:19
The post was never to get anyone to buy anything. If you were to read what I posetd you would have known that. As for what you would buy or not buy that is up to you. You may not have visited the custom forged katana page. If you did not do that than I can understand your comment. If you did, than you must not have read nor understood anything about my custom forged katanas.

If you believe that a sword has to be a "Paul Chen" or cost thousands of dollars to be a handmade sword, then good for you. I would beg to differ on that point, however.

I custom order many hand forged swords for my clients in the Hampton Roads area. Quite many of my customers are students of Iaido and Instructors too. Your comment about what you would allow in your school is moot.

It sounds like you may have clicked on my swords link and been lead to the display swords section. If that is the case then I would agree that even I would not want to practice with a display sword. Many of the swords on the market are "top shelf" swords. They are pretty to look at, but not functional swords.
If you would like to view a selection of hand forged swords then I suggest you revisit my webstie and examine the custom forged katana section for your own benefit.

Douglas Wylie
28th April 2006, 06:47
I wouldnt allow a Paul Chen to be used in my dojo. I viewed your whole page and consider everything on there below the minimum requirements for practice in my dojo, more than just my dojo, my sensei would not allow it, nor his sensei, nor the soke.

Who are these iai instructors who are using your products?

rwhamm
28th April 2006, 07:06
Here we are bickering over something moot. Weather or not you would allow any of my swords in your dojo is moot. To be blunt I dont care about your dojo. I dont care about what you think is a good sword.

I do care that Galen gets some good advice about swords. You have put your two cents in about the matter and it is quite enough. I really like how you back up your opnion about how horrible all of my swords are with no rebuttle about why you do not like them. Not that it would matter.

I think that peoplle should consider the source. I too am a Yondan in ESR Iaido and I have studied other martial arts while in the Army. I took the time to check your school out on the web and it seems nice. I also viewed your LSU webpage. I will tell you however that I have never seen an Instructor that is your size. Generally an athaletic body comes with strict martial arts training. That is not to say that you are not good. I guess my point here is like the old saying about never trusting a skinny cheff... Because they dont eat what they make... because it tastes bad... Thats the point I am making.
Mr Doug Wylie
http://appl003.ocs.lsu.edu/paws005.nsf/$Unique/dwylie1?OpenDocument

As for Galen, you can see that a "good" sword is subjective to the buyer of the sword. Here we have two different views about swords. I like my swords. Doug does not. So when you make your decision make sure that you get what you like. Do some research, and enjoy the benefits of a wonderful new sword.

Remember that any form of Iaido is about Saya-no-unchi, Invincibility without drawing the sword. Iaido is the path to harmony, and you must deal with your inner harmony before you can be in harmony with the rest of the world.

Maro
28th April 2006, 07:29
Wow, 7 posts before the insults.

Not a great start to posting Mr Hamm. Poor form. :rolleyes:

rwhamm
28th April 2006, 07:33
WOW this is an interesting twist. However, your comment is appreciated.

Maro
28th April 2006, 07:37
I'm not flaming you - just pointing out some netiquette.

We're not big on insulting comments here generally.

:)

Douglas Wylie
28th April 2006, 07:57
At 6'3" 280lbs not many people are my size, just football players, sumo tori, people like that. I pride myself on my gentle touch and reliance on technique, even though I could pick up and throw the average guy like a javelin, I guess thats why people come to learn at my dojo.

Who is your sensei and where is your school. Something just doesnt fit. Who misspells the name of their art? What is ESR?

You are selling swords, I get that, but you are not supposed to do it here. So dont get huffy that someone gives an opinion.

Brian Owens
28th April 2006, 08:11
...The Habaki is the brass fitting that grabs the Ha-Machi (the notch in the sword blade that begins the tang - refer to http://www.swordseller.biz/swordinfo.html) and through the tension of the menugi (peg) ,being inserted into the menugi-ani, (hole in the tang that the menugi fits into) holds the sword blade centered and flush with the tsuka. Without the Habaki the sword would flap from side to side comming out of the tsuka.
I wonder if you're confusing some terms here.

A properly fitting tsuka (hilt) with tight mekugi (not "menugi") should hold the blade from "flapping" side to side (or back to edge, for that matter).

Test cutting of new blades was often performed with a special hilt that had no habaki, tsuba, or seppa, and the blades were held just fine.

The habaki holds the blade in the saya (scabbard).

At least that is my understanding.

JAnstey
28th April 2006, 08:19
Hi Guys,

Thread seems to have taken a bit of a new direction from the questions asked my Galen.

I think there has been viewpoints shown from most angles and it will now be up to Galen to take what advice he is most comfortable with.

Cheers

Jason

Brian Owens
28th April 2006, 08:26
...refer to http://www.swordseller.biz/swordinfo.html...
Another question about terminology.

The site referenced above has the following information:

Hamon = "Bloodline"

Kissaki = "Cutting Edge"

I have never seen the hamon called a bloodline before. (I have often seen bohi tranlated as "blood groove," though.) Most often the hamon is called a temper line, although to be strictly correct it should be called a hardening line or some such.

I have always seen the kissaki translated as the tip, not the edge. The edge is usually translated as ha, with the forward portion below the kissaki, the so called "sweet spot," being called the monouchi.

Can you tell me where you got these alternate definitions? I'm always looking to exand my limited knowledge.

Brian Owens
28th April 2006, 08:31
...Thread seems to have taken a bit of a new direction from the questions asked my Galen....
True; however it's a natural progression based on the posts, and does refer to swords in general including iaito, so I don't think it's so far "off topic" as to be reined in...yet.

Douglas Wylie
28th April 2006, 08:51
Look at this-

http://www.swordseller.biz/abouttotf.html

"Iaido... ...will be the focus of the online instruction. Each technique will be documented with DVD quality movies and photos... The students of the Online Dojo will have the ability to test for belts... ...testing will either be completed over video messenger- such as a web cam..."

That is enough for me. No wonder we are at odds.

JAnstey
28th April 2006, 09:19
True; however it's a natural progression based on the posts, and does refer to swords in general including iaito, so I don't think it's so far "off topic" as to be reined in...yet.

Yep Brian,

I gotta agree it's getting pretty interesting.

FWIW. Kissaki- curvature from the yokote (vertical line near tip) to the tip. O-kissaki (great or large) chu-kissaki (medium and most common in Iai) ko-kissaki (small)

Cheers

Jason

Rob Alvelais
28th April 2006, 14:58
If you believe that a sword has to be a "Paul Chen" or cost thousands of dollars to be a handmade sword, then good for you. I would beg to differ on that point, however.


Has anyone else noticed that the Paul Chen swords tend to have the kurikata a bit too far down the saya to do a good sayabiki on nukitsuke?

Rob
(doing mjer btw)

pgsmith
28th April 2006, 18:11
I think that peoplle should consider the source. I too am a Yondan in ESR Iaido and I have studied other martial arts while in the Army.
Greetings Mr. Hamm,
Are the folks that do your custom swords the same forge that supplies Chenness? I ask because the boxes are identical.
Another question for you, what is ESR iaido? I am not familiar with what ESR might stand for. I thought I knew about pretty much everyone that teaches iaido in your neck of the woods, but I've not heard of ESR before this.

Just curious.

Rob,
I also don't care for how far down the saya Hanwei places their kurikata. It is not historically unknown, but I dislike it never the less.

Cebu
28th April 2006, 18:51
If there are any number of folks practicing iaido in the Hampton Roads area, I'd love to know where. I drive a little over 2 hours to find any legitimate gendai or koryu sword arts. Even though I wouldn't change my dojo, I'd sure like to know where these folks are...

gendzwil
28th April 2006, 19:34
I too am a Yondan in ESR Iaido and I have studied other martial arts while in the Army.Hmm. You'd think somewhere in all that training they'd have told you the difference between tsuka and saya. The habaki has nothing to do with the tsuka.

kdlarman
28th April 2006, 23:07
Habaki are certainly extremely important, but saying they hold the blade in the tsuka is flat out silly.

And fwiw the shape and design of the habaki on the site in question are not very good. Typical production shapes, but missing much of the subtle shaping that allows for a good, snug fit that will last longer than 10 draws.

Mekugi should not be holding the blade into the tsuka. Nor should they be preventing anything for that matter. *IF* the mekugi is physically holding the blade in place the tsuka needs replacing. The entire structure of a Japanese tsuka from the rayskin wrap to the tight, symmetrical wrap of tsukaito is to help compress the tsuka core around the nakago. Even the filemarks on the nakago (yasurimei) help in holding the blade in place in that they increase surface area and create a rough surface for the wood to "grab". The mekugi helps settle the blade deeply into the tsuka allowing the construction of the tsuka hold the blade in place. It is not the "thing" holding it together. The mekugi helps settle the blade down into place. If the tsuka is loose and the pin is the only thing holding it in the blade will rattle and that itself will rapidly further degrade the fit. Pressure points will form, the tsuka will deform, and it will never fit well again. The mekugi allows the tsuka and the nakago to become "one" with each other. Since they end up working as a single unit the forces and energy are transmitted out and the tsuka lasts and the blade stays in place.

This does not mean you should swing a sword without a mekugi. And one should always check and double check mekugi.

One reason to change pins is that they sometimes compress a bit. When that happens the blade isn't pushed in as far as they should be. Rattle forms. A new mekugi will help settle the blade better. Hence why changing mekugi frequently is important. You can also use a tapered reamer to slightly enlarge a mekugi ana on the tsuka (assuming the nakago was correctly drilled -- which is usually not the case on production swords). The ana in the sword should be larger but the back of the hole aligned with the back of the tsuka's mekugi-ana. So enlarging the ana on the tsuka will "pull" the blade in further with a new, larger mekugi.

Also, I watched Hataya sensei ramming in new mekugi into tsuka at a recent tai kai. He over carved them slightly and hammered them in. This again helps shove the nakago deeper into the tsuka. Kinda brute force, but it was effective.

Kissaki is the "tip". That's all. Nothing more. We talk about the curve of the edge of the kissaki by referring to the fukura. (Not to be confused with a fukure -- a blister in the steel.) Hamon is the "identifying" mark of the "Edge".

I personally think there is a butt for every seat out there. Some want inexpensive swords, some want better. But most have fairly high standards for martial arts usage. And justifiably so. I must admit I do get annoyed with sellers talking about how wonderful their swords are all while not knowing even the basics of the product they sell. If you don't even know the terminology, the parts, the names, the way they're built, how can you judge is a particular sword is any good? Or safe to use? Or just yet another piece of crap...

Brian Owens
29th April 2006, 04:39
...Mekugi should not be holding the blade into the tsuka. Nor should they be preventing anything for that matter. *IF* the mekugi is physically holding the blade in place the tsuka needs replacing....
That's interesting, Keith. It makes sense, but goes against what I have been taught.

For example, I've been taught to remove the tsuka from time to time to inspect the nakago. But I've always done this by removing the mekugi and then pulling the tsuka off the blade, never completely unwrapping/disassembling it. Does this mean that all those tsuka were too loose?

TIA for any further comment.

kdlarman
29th April 2006, 07:42
I"m sorry, but I'm not sure where you're getting anything about unwrapping.

What I mean is that the pin itself (and by itself) isn't what holds a properly constructed and fit tsuka on the nakago. Functionally the pin acts as a means of pushing the nakago in further. But of course if you remove the pin and carefully dislodge the tsuka it should come off. The point being that the tsuka should be reasonably tight without the pin in place. If there is rattle, movement, etc. with the pin in place then the pin is the only thing holding it in. That is bad. If the nakago is firmly in place with no movement or rattle the pin is there only to keep it snug.

Collectors remove tsuka all the time to inspect swords. As such they get a bit loose and sloppy. Martial artists should periodically check their nakago (and the core itself by removing the fuchi and checking for cracks in the core). But this isn't something you do often because constant disassembly will speed loosening of the tsuka.

The point is that a tsuka should fit well. That means tightly in all dimensions. If that is the case the pin just keeps things flush and in contact and as such the pin takes very little force itself. So in that sense the pin doesn't hold it in. It allows the design of the tsuka to "grip" properly and act as a single unit rather than a loose holding handle.

The point about tsukamaki and full samekawa wraps is that well done they further compress the core making the tsuka fit even tighter. When I start with a core I am pretty anal about making sure the core fits like a glove. It is tight as a wood only core. Once I apply the soaked and glue covered rayskin and tightly bind it in place to dry, the tsuka core will frequently be much harder to get back on the nakago. It will sometimes take a day or two for me to gently tap it on as far as it will go, let it sit a few hours, tap it off, then push it back on a little further. Over time the wood in the channel compresses enough to get all the way where it needs to go. Then once it is wrapped by a professional tsukamakishi who gets proper tension, well, the whole process is repeated. The end result is a tsuka that fits very tightly and literally grips the nakago. Taking a tsuka like this off the sword for a few days is one sure way to find out that it won't go back on.

But once it is on it is tight. And will stay tight and solid.

But no, you don't unwrap it. The pin is there solely to make sure the blade stays in place. The holding it in during use *should* be a function of a properly built tsuka and not due to strength of the pin. You want strong pins (just like I like airbags and antilock breaks in my car), but you shouldn't have to need super strength in the pins for normal, daily use. Of course you still want to use strong pins, but relying on the strength of the pin because of poor tsuka fit is a serious problem.

Sorry I wasn't clear.

Brian Owens
29th April 2006, 09:54
Okay, thanks for the amplification. That makes it all perfectly clear, and it matches my understanding as well. (Glad to know I wasn't wrong in what I thought I had been taught.)

kdlarman
29th April 2006, 15:50
<snip. I also don't care for how far down the saya Hanwei places their kurikata. It is not historically unknown, but I dislike it never the less.

Yeah, the distance is pretty large on most. There really isn't a hard and fast rule where to place the kurikata in absence of having a specific person in mind that I know of. But I think in general Hanwei errs on the side of too much distance to make sure everyone's large, chubby fingers will fit. But that makes it a pretty large distance especially for some MA's who like to have as much mobility as possible for sayabiki. When I'm doing a custom one I use my hand as a reference or ask the customer about their preference. I had one customer specify to the mm where it was to go (he was shorter and very serious about his iai).

That's one advantages of not buying "off the rack". ;)

Chidokan
7th May 2006, 19:11
The large gap has actually caused a problem for one of my female students... although the blade is an ok length, she has to use a 'novel' saya movement in order to clear the saya for nukitsuke. I intend to move it closer to the koiguchi shortly now I have spotted this. It needs moving about 5cm for her....