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Hayseed
10th April 2006, 02:16
Is the naming a sword a fictional tradition? I've always found it to be an interesting idea, however, the other day I realized I've really never known anyone(personally) to do it.(I study Shinkendo & BBT.)

gmarquay
10th April 2006, 04:53
I named my sword Bud. Cuz he's my bud.

pgsmith
10th April 2006, 16:42
Both swords that I use regularly have names. One is "My Old One" and one is "My New One". :)

Tim Mailloux
10th April 2006, 18:45
Both of my sword have names also, "The Cheap One" and "The Expensive One"

Fred27
10th April 2006, 18:58
I don't have a name for my sword, but I have named my keikogi and hakama. "Stinky and torn" and "rather stinky but still in one piece" respectively. :p :D

Carlos Estrella
10th April 2006, 18:59
Assuming that it's a serious question... the idea of "naming" a sword is an intriguing one. I've seen in books (fictional and non-fiction) where samurai have named their swords. Unfortunately, I'd figure that many, many samurai were little more than foot soldiers in major battles (imho), so naming a sword would be like naming your M16 "ol' Blue" or something. (The Private's weapon's name is Charlene, Sir!)

With so many of us buying modern made swords and asking for specific mei on the nagako, who here HAS formally named or at least subtly requested that a specific name be given or engraved on their sword? (I just call mine "Sang's Old Sword," btw.)

FWIW,

Carlos

Brian Owens
11th April 2006, 06:24
Is the naming a sword a fictional tradition?
It's a tradition practiced by some, and not just in fiction.

Just two examples:

The Kenji (Sacred Sword in the Imperial Regalia) -- which may or may not actually be a replica of the original -- is known variously as the "Grasscutter" or the "Gathering Clouds of Heaven" Sword.

Sasaki Kojiro's sword from the time of his duel with Miyamoto Musashi was named "Frost Silver."

HTH.

hyaku
11th April 2006, 10:01
It's a tradition practiced by some, and not just in fiction.

Sasaki Kojiro's sword from the time of his duel with Miyamoto Musashi was named "Frost Silver."
He should have called his the grasscutter too. It grows up a meter high on that island.

Fred27
11th April 2006, 10:29
He should have called his the grasscutter too. It grows up a meter high on that island.

Heh, wasn't it also "Clothes Rod" or was that just from the movies? :D

100110
11th April 2006, 11:04
The "drying pole" according to Wilson's book, I think. Don't know if it's true.

This page implies that naming swords was a slightly unusual practice:
http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/wcsword.htm

hyaku
11th April 2006, 11:49
Mono Hoshi Zao. They use poles for drying in Japan not clothes lines. Yes that's how they commonly refer to Sasaki's Sanjaku.

Had a laugh with Soke when he showed me this "very" old oar in the dojo. He smiled and said, "Actually this is the original one, can you beleive it?"
I looked at the end said, "Not unless they were using circular power saws in the 1600's".

Hayseed
12th April 2006, 02:01
First off...yes, this is a serious question. It just occurred(sp?) to me that they could have been refering the sword with almost like a brand name.(Like a Muramasa for example). Or I could be way off base. Any thoughts?

Brett Charvat
12th April 2006, 05:04
I have a vague memory of one of my friends in college (a quite studious if amateur Japanese historian) telling me of a sword named "Six-leg-biter," in reference to an impressive test cut through six human legs. Does that ring any bells with anyone out there? I could of course have some or all of the facts mixed up; as I said, it's a pretty vague memory.

kdlarman
12th April 2006, 07:32
Well, there were a lot of swords that were famous in Japanese history that adopted various names over time. The hocho masamune, the so-called "little crow" kogarasu maru by Amakuni, demon cutters, etc. But that's generally different in that they are simply famous blades because of what they did, who made them, who owned them, stories that formed around them, etc.

In terms of the 'average' Joe naming his own blade some people do that. Some even go so far as to have the blade blessed in a religious rite of some sort even today (something I'm not at all qualified to comment on). So there is precedent for naming swords.

Anyway, the point being that some swords get names because they're famous, others get more "personal" names from their owners.

The only name I ever use is "that one over there...". ;)

kdlarman
12th April 2006, 07:34
I should add that a friend of mine wrote up a really good article about famous "named blades" years ago. I remember reading it but I don't know if he ever published it. I'll have to ask him about that next time I talk with him.

J. L. Badgley
12th April 2006, 12:46
In terms of modern practice...

In our dojo I notice most people refer to a sword first by its maker or model (so 'that's the Howard Clark, that's the Kaneuji, that's the dragonfly') using the owner's name as a descriptor if need be. We have had some that took on particular names, such as a good little gunto that would always help someone cut properly, it seemed. We called it 'the loyal retainer' because it wasn't anything special, but if you were having a bad day you could almost always pick it up and get a few good cuts out of it.

I'm not sure that naming has gone much beyond that, though.


-Joshua B.

Gilgland
12th April 2006, 17:40
Heh, wasn't it also "Clothes Rod" or was that just from the movies? :D

Version I read said he named it "the Drying pole" due to its length (between 4 1/2' and 5') It reminded Kojiro of the long bamboo poles used to hang Kimono while they dried

this was the 300 year old, flawless ( this thing went through battles for 3 centuries and it was not so mutch as nicked or notched) blade that was so close to killing Musashi that the headband he wore that day was cut in two. this just as musashi's boken met Koji's head.

Fred27
12th April 2006, 17:54
Version I read said he named it "the Drying pole" due to its length (between 4 1/2' and 5') It reminded Kojiro of the long bamboo poles used to hang Kimono while they dried

this was the 300 year old, flawless ( this thing went through battles for 3 centuries and it was not so mutch as nicked or notched) blade that was so close to killing Musashi that the headband he wore that day was cut in two. this just as musashi's boken met Koji's head.

Ah ok..My japanese is poor so I couldnt make a translation meself and had to rely on the provided english subtitles. :)

100110
12th April 2006, 18:29
Wandering off-topic now, but I wonder if that sanjaku is still around...

pgsmith
12th April 2006, 20:04
this was the 300 year old, flawless ( this thing went through battles for 3 centuries and it was not so mutch as nicked or notched) blade that was so close to killing Musashi that the headband he wore that day was cut in two. this just as musashi's boken met Koji's head.
That's interesting! I've never run across that in any of my reading. Where exactly did you find this information?

xSwordsmanx
12th April 2006, 21:32
Wandering off-topic now, but I wonder if that sanjaku is still around...
If it is, it is in someone's private collection now.

Jock Armstrong
13th April 2006, 04:12
Remember to sign your full name Evan. I haven't heard of Shinjo ryu. What "line" does it come from?

kdlarman
13th April 2006, 06:05
Went browsing through my bookshelf today. Hawley's has a monograph listing 400 "named" blades in Japanese history. Basically it reads like a dictionary. It lists the names in alpha order and then a brief paragraph describing the blade/history/owner/whatever. FWIW.

ScottUK
13th April 2006, 11:11
That's interesting! I've never run across that in any of my reading. Where exactly did you find this information?I think it's the most common of the stylised stories of Ganryujima. Did you know it's the anniversary of the battle today - 13 April?

I have handled a reproduction of Kojiro's sword in Kokura castle. It ain't that big really.

Takeso
15th April 2006, 02:24
well, i have several katana but i refere to my spessial ones as: kibara no gunto, more details and bibu no tora