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gendzwil
19th April 2006, 17:47
Sorry if I get the terminology wrong - I think it's ITKF. Anyways Nishiyama-sensei's organisation is having their world championship here in Saskatoon, SK Canada October 6-7. Anyone here planning to attend? I'm looking forward to watching it even though I'm not a karate guy.

Martin H
25th April 2006, 13:06
ITKF? International traditional karate federation?
http://www.itkf.org/

I always tought that they were a "no-competition" organisation. Ohwell.live and learn!

gendzwil
25th April 2006, 16:21
They hold a world championship every two years - it's right on that website under the "competitions and events" link although I note there's no info about this year's event yet.

Margaret Lo
25th April 2006, 16:31
ITKF? International traditional karate federation?
http://www.itkf.org/

I always tought that they were a "no-competition" organisation. Ohwell.live and learn!

Mr. Nishiyama was one of the original JKA shotokan teachers to come to the US. JKA affiliates such as the ITKF don't compete as much as US originated groups, but they definitely compete. I'd say 2x per year with intermittant "goodwill" tourneys.

Martin H
25th April 2006, 17:16
Yes I found it on their webpage now, never seen it before (but admitedly I have not looked that hard).

As for ITKF being associated to JKA, is that realy correct? JKA is part of JKF (japanese karate federation, which is the base of WKF (world karate federation, formerly known as "wuko" -it changed name decades ago, but some people still calls it WUKO). WKF representatives in the us is USKF. And I KNOW ITKF is not in the WKF -they are to some extent rivaling organisations, so there seems to be a conflict of organisations here.
I sort of suspect that Nishiyama no longer is affiliated to JKA, and neither is ITKF.

Prince Loeffler
25th April 2006, 17:27
Yes I found it on their webpage now, never seen it before (but admitedly I have not looked that hard).

As for ITKF being associated to JKA, is that realy correct? JKA is part of JKF (japanese karate federation, which is the base of WKF (world karate federation, formerly known as "wuko" -it changed name decades ago, but some people still calls it WUKO). WKF representatives in the us is USKF. And I KNOW ITKF is not in the WKF -they are to some extent rivaling organisations, so there seems to be a conflict of organisations here.
I sort of suspect that Nishiyama no longer is affiliated to JKA, and neither is ITKF.


Hi Martin, ITKF ( International Traditional Karate Fedeartion) is the Mother of AAKF ( American Amateur Karate Federation). Both are under Hiditeka Nishiyama Sensei. Nishiyama formed this orgaization I believed back in 1960 (I could be wrong) after Kanazawa came back to the US.

The difference between the two as I remember it is The ITKF was founded in to separate the new karate styles and traditional karate while the AAKF was created to oversee national and regional competition and develops technical advancement through special training seminars throughout the US.

Nishiyama Sensei was credited as to one of the Original founders of the JKA.

Margaret Lo
25th April 2006, 17:30
I sort of suspect that Nishiyama no longer is affiliated to JKA, and neither is ITKF.

No need to suspect, Mr. Nishiyama split with the JKA either late 70s or mid-80s and formed ITKF. Here is a pretty comprehensive list of the Spawn of the JKA. Despite any geographical distance, all of these organizations practice a type of karate originating w/ JKA shotokan.

http://www.shotokanworld.com/htmls/ShotoKan_World.htm

M

Martin H
25th April 2006, 17:48
ok thanks for the clarification. I was aware the ITKF draws its "lineage" to JKA and shotokan, I just got the impression from your post that they were still affiliated (organisationaly, not just historicaly). And that went against my knowledge of the WKF organisation and politics. But then we are in agreement again :-)

BTW there were some negotiation a while back to, well not join but atleast associate, WKF andd ITKF with the goal of creating a unified karate organisation in order to improve chances of getting into the olympics. Any idea of the status of that project??

Margaret Lo
25th April 2006, 19:30
.. I just got the impression from your post that they were still affiliated (organisationaly, not just historicaly).

...BTW there were some negotiation a while back to, well not join but atleast associate, WKF andd ITKF with the goal of creating a unified karate organisation in order to improve chances of getting into the olympics. Any idea of the status of that project??

You're right Martin, I was unclear, its ISKF (Mr. Okazaki) and Shotokan Karate-do America (Mr. Mori) that are still JKA affiliated. I only meant that they are all JKA styled shotokan.

As to negotiations, I know that the most recent efforts fell apart but no idea on current situation, I'm just a lowly 3 dan.

M

gendzwil
25th April 2006, 19:40
If you do a search here it has been discussed before. Nishiyama-sensei is still listed on the JKA website as technical advisor to the instructor's committee, so he has at least some relationship with JKA even if his organisation is seperate.

At any rate, we'll be doing a kendo demo on the Friday night so if there are any e-budo members around, say hi.

powerof0ne
25th April 2006, 20:58
Yes I found it on their webpage now, never seen it before (but admitedly I have not looked that hard).

As for ITKF being associated to JKA, is that realy correct? JKA is part of JKF (japanese karate federation, which is the base of WKF (world karate federation, formerly known as "wuko" -it changed name decades ago, but some people still calls it WUKO). WKF representatives in the us is USKF. And I KNOW ITKF is not in the WKF -they are to some extent rivaling organisations, so there seems to be a conflict of organisations here.
I sort of suspect that Nishiyama no longer is affiliated to JKA, and neither is ITKF.

I also thought that the USANKF(Julius Thiry is the president of this)was a rep for the WKF in the USA. I could be wrong, I just remember in 96 or 97, the last time I competed in these kind of tournaments that they had WKF logos on the programs and such. I'm also pretty certain that they follow WKF rules, in terms of kumite and kata.

Martin H
25th April 2006, 21:59
I also thought that the USANKF(Julius Thiry is the president of this)was a rep for the WKF in the USA. I could be wrong, I just remember in 96 or 97, the last time I competed in these kind of tournaments that they had WKF logos on the programs and such. I'm also pretty certain that they follow WKF rules, in terms of kumite and kata.

You could very well be right. The name USKF comes from my memory, which on occation can be faulty.
And the WKF webpage does not say what the national US group is called either.
http://www.wkf.net/html/members.html
They do however name Thomas Burke as president.

Rob Alvelais
26th April 2006, 06:01
BTW there were some negotiation a while back to, well not join but atleast associate, WKF andd ITKF with the goal of creating a unified karate organisation in order to improve chances of getting into the olympics. Any idea of the status of that project??

It's dead. That was back more than 10 years ago when the IOC wanted WUKO and the ITKF to merge to form the WKF. Mr. Nishiyama was supposed to be in charge of Ippon Shobu and the WUKO part was supposed to handle Sanbon (at the time) and kata. It went to the brink and WUKO/wkf lost its IOC recognition for a few months. The IOC evidently gave up on the ITKF and recognized the WKF.

It was during that time that the USAKF lost it's NGB status, as an NGB loses its status when the IGB loses its status. At that time Mr. Thiry formed the USANKF and after a short time, the USANKF won the NGB status.


Rob

Rob Alvelais
26th April 2006, 06:05
I also thought that the USANKF(Julius Thiry is the president of this)was a rep for the WKF in the USA.

Yes, this is correct.



I could be wrong, I just remember in 96 or 97, the last time I competed in these kind of tournaments that they had WKF logos on the programs and such. I'm also pretty certain that they follow WKF rules, in terms of kumite and kata.
Yes, it follows the WKF rules of competition.

Rob

Rob Alvelais
26th April 2006, 06:11
They do however name Thomas Burke as president.


Tom is the President. Julius is the executive director.


As for the Membership to the WKF, it's listed thusly:


The USNKF is listed as a member of the Panamerican Karate Federation (PKF).
The PKF is the continental representative to the WKF.

Rob

gendzwil
4th May 2006, 23:14
Aside from all the politics, the website for the championships is here (http://www.karatecanada.com/).