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View Full Version : Rhythm Naginata!!!!?????



sven beulke
10th May 2006, 12:33
Hi All!
Searching video-google.com i found this disturbing and irritating video!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3913372165348189502&q=naginata!
Anyone with mor information about this?
Kind Regards!

J. L. Badgley
10th May 2006, 13:30
It is generally done as a sort of a 'goodwill' or 'friendship' exercise, as best I can put it. Aka, having fun and fooling around. It's something that has become popular in atarashii naginata, although I don't know how far back it goes.

Note, though, that this isn't considered 'serious' by anyone I've ever talked to. Everyone I've discussed it with has pretty much agreed that it is just something fun--no great worry about judging, winning, or losing. Although you could probably make the point that it is a form of practice, it is really more of a show done at gatherings of other naginataka. Another way to look at it; it's how you get rid of all those samurai and wu xiao movie desires ;-)

sven beulke
10th May 2006, 16:22
Hi Joshua!
Thanks for the info! I think the guys in the video take the stuff they are making very serious. If this performance was part of a international competition there must be a lot of people take this stuff serious.
Still shaking my head! :rolleyes:
Kind Regards

Bruce Mitchell
11th May 2006, 17:46
Rythm naginata is usually done at the start of the INF World Championships. At best it's looked at as a way for the naginata-no-hito to get to create a sensical kata on their own (but put to music). A lot of groups also seem to really enjoy it.

Personally, I am not a fan, but as long as I don't have to do it than it can stickk around. I reconcile the silliness of it by thinking about the link between rythm naginata and Japanese theater. The naginata is used in a lot of plays, and the plays are usually done to music.

Nathan Scott
12th May 2006, 05:41
Hi Bruce,

Yeah, it does feel better when you think of it that way, huh?

BTW, this concept is not a new idea unique to naginata. Shorinji Kempo often does similar type performances at some of their large events, and I believe there are other groups that do something similar as well. Naginata probably borrowed the idea from one of these groups, for better or for worse.

It's probably part of that "how do we attract the younger generation - I know, we'll incorporate fantasy stuff".

The teachers in Japan sure love the stuff.

Regards,

Mekugi
12th May 2006, 23:35
Hi All!
Searching video-google.com i found this disturbing and irritating video!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3913372165348189502&q=naginata!
Anyone with mor information about this?
Kind Regards!
Naginata-bu. I truly dislike this kind of thing- at the Nagoya castle embu they invite a kembu group that drives me batty. I have to distance myself until they are done to keep from freaking out. It doesn't mean it is bad, it just means that I personally dislike it.

mews
13th May 2006, 05:34
The first time I saw this was years ago at a tournament at Osaka Castle.

I had only done a little naginata, and was a tourist who just lucked into the tournament that day, but I found it deeply weird.

girls running about with pink bows...

but the rest of the tournament was great.

mew

gyrfalcon
4th June 2006, 06:38
What I have heard, though I am no longer sure this is correct, is that rhythm naginata was originally developed as a way to get around the US occupation restrictions on practicing martial arts. They put it forth as a form of traditional dance, rather than martial arts practice, and were therefore able to continue training.

In any case, it's a way of getting in some group practice, and a chance for some additional creativity and variety in practice.

mews
4th June 2006, 23:40
Well, I never had to do it, and I'm sure some folks really like it. But really, those big pink bows on the back of the do himo were weird. I've been imprinted like a duckling with that image.

Now, given some bagpipes, maybe we could do something with that...

(and yes, I can just see the record player going, with everyone ready to explain it was a form of Bo-Odori to some poor clueless Army guy, during the ban ;) )

mew

alepto
12th June 2006, 16:22
Hello
Rhythm naginata is actually quite complex and demanding to do (also fun!). I have only done some "basic" stuff (nothing like the Belgians). Watching a Japanese group of adults do it a couple of years ago it was fascinating - sure it had the corny music but the attitude of the competitors as well as the components involved( e.g. zanshin, technique) made it budo. I would liken it to precision drill marching. It might be thought of as an extension to shikake-ooji e.g. zanshin, co-ordinated movement, co-ordinated breathing. As to the history, in Alex Bennett's naginata book he makes a reference to perhaps an earlier form (on pg 112) dating back to around 1912.

stuart green

Bruce Mitchell
15th June 2006, 04:16
Hello
Rhythm naginata is actually quite complex and demanding to do (also fun!). I have only done some "basic" stuff (nothing like the Belgians). Watching a Japanese group of adults do it a couple of years ago it was fascinating - sure it had the corny music but the attitude of the competitors as well as the components involved( e.g. zanshin, technique) made it budo. I would liken it to precision drill marching. It might be thought of as an extension to shikake-ooji e.g. zanshin, co-ordinated movement, co-ordinated breathing. As to the history, in Alex Bennett's naginata book he makes a reference to perhaps an earlier form (on pg 112) dating back to around 1912.

stuart green

Physically demanding yes, budo NO! Having done precision drill marching in boot camp years ago, I would agree that they are alike (rythm and drill). But precision drill has nothing to do with combat exercises. Much of learning about ma-ai is about learning to disrupt your opponents movement, breathing, and timing ( i.e. go-no-sen, sen-no-sen, sen-sen-no-sen) not coordinating with your opponent. I have heard some teachers talk about a cooperative spirit in shikake-oji, but frankly I believe that they are wrong. Shikake-oji should be done with the spirit of shinken shobu, genuine attacks and genuine responses.

It is interesting to know that there is a history for this, but we should take the opportunity to learn from that history and not repeat mistakes. Just my two cents.

Bruce Mitchell
15th June 2006, 15:53
Just wanted to add a quick thought. As I said in an earlier post, I am not against people doing rythm naginata, and I would agree that to do it well takes hard work, practice and skill. What I disagree with is the attempt to justify it as budo, or claim that it has a direct benefit to Atarashi Naginata practice. Yoga or weight lifting will teach you far more about being connected with your body (ki-ken-tai-ichi), teach you balance, focus, and build strenght then prancing around with a stick.