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George Kohler
12th May 2006, 23:37
Found these on the net (Japanese Google Search). These are from the book Shinto Rikugo-ryu Jujutsu kyoju sho: Kihon no maki

johan smits
15th May 2006, 14:17
Hi George,

Those pics are cool!
Is there anything more on Shinto Rikugo ryu? I think this was the school founded by Noguchi sensei and was more or less meant as a countermeasure against the increasingly popular Kodokan judo of Kano. The school is supposed to have consisted of several older jujutsustyles.

Best,

Johan Smits

George Kohler
15th May 2006, 17:22
There are some more, but not much. To tell you the truth I don't know too much about Noguchi and Shinto Rikugo-ryu.

Here is pictures from Tokka Kyoju Sho Tora no maki

johan smits
16th May 2006, 07:23
I think the last pictures are from a book that has been reprinted in the 1980's or 1990's. Serge Mol mentions Noguchi and writes a short piece about the school in his Complete Koryu Jujutsu.

On freebudo.com I think the school is also mentioned, one of their japanese teachers jujutsu style originates in the Shinto Rikugo-ryu.

Best,

Johan Smits

George Kohler
16th May 2006, 07:59
I think the last pictures are from a book that has been reprinted in the 1980's or 1990's. Serge Mol mentions Noguchi and writes a short piece about the school in his Complete Koryu Jujutsu.

On freebudo.com I think the school is also mentioned, one of their japanese teachers jujutsu style originates in the Shinto Rikugo-ryu.

Best,

Johan Smits

What's the name of the book that was reprinted in the 1980's/90's? These pictures came from http://www.bokuden.or.jp/~bunbkan which I think is a research group.

I have the Serge Mol book and read the small description. I wish there are more about this school.

johan smits
16th May 2006, 08:29
I am at the office right now and do not have the book here but from memory it is titled: Okugi jujutsu kyujo sho. It is mentioned in Serge Mol's Complete Koryu Jujutsu. It is authored by Noguchi sensei and (the reprint) consists of the Tora no maki which are more techniques in kata form and another part which seems to be kihon waza. It might be called Ryu no maki or maybe it consists of another book by Noguchi titled Seitei Kihon Shokai.

best,

Johan Smits

George Kohler
17th May 2006, 01:48
I posted some picture of this school the clipart archive and wondered if anyone has any info on this school. I know that there is a small piece about this school in Serge Mol's book, but wanted to get more information about this school.

Who are the Noguchi brothers?
What did they study?
What happened to the school?
Is anyone still teaching this school?

Now, it might be a rumor, but I heard that the reason why it did not take off like Judo was because one of the Noguchi brothers died at an early age.

johan smits
17th May 2006, 07:25
George,

I have no inside information but I got it from a good source that a kata called Higo-ryu taijutsu no kata is still practiced in Japan in several dojo.
I think this kata is from the Shinto Rikugo-ryu.

best,

Johan Smits

Steve Delaney
17th May 2006, 11:16
George,

I have no inside information but I got it from a good source that a kata called Higo-ryu taijutsu no kata is still practiced in Japan in several dojo.
I think this kata is from the Shinto Rikugo-ryu.

best,

Johan Smits

The Higo-ryu Taijutsu No Kata does not come from Shinto Rokugo-ryu.
Higo-ryu Taijutsu no kata is an amalgamation of several koryu techniques from, Aida-ryu, Kyushin-ryu,Shi ten-ryu, Takenouchi Santo-ryu, Tenka Muso-ryu and Akiyama Yoshin-ryu.

johan smits
17th May 2006, 13:28
Hi Steve,

Thank you for the information. Do you know where the Higo-ryu taijutsu no kata comes from. Could be Higo-ryu but could you give us some more inforamtion about it's origin and contends?

In order not to hijack the thread maybe you can tell us also about the Shinto Rikugo-ryu?

Big please and bigger smiley.

Johan Smits

Steve Delaney
17th May 2006, 13:48
Hi Steve,

Thank you for the information. Do you know where the Higo-ryu taijutsu no kata comes from. Could be Higo-ryu but could you give us some more inforamtion about it's origin and contends?

Historically, Higo-han or Higo No Kuni is the feudal name for what is now modern day Kumamoto prefecture. There are ten kata. It was formalized by the Kumamoto Judo renmei (Most of the higher ranking members at the time being koryu jujutsuka) in order to preserve the older methods of koryu jujutsu.


In order not to hijack the thread maybe you can tell us also about the Shinto Rikugo-ryu?

神道六合流 (しんとうろくごうりゅう) Shinto Rokugo-ryu (not Rikugo). I don't know much about this school, other than it's an offshoot of Yoshin-ryu. It's still being taught in Japan as far as I know. Not much more than that.

johan smits
17th May 2006, 14:14
One more thing. Some years ago I proposed on this board (and maybe on another one) it woudl be good for the practitioners of modern jujutsu in the West (meaning outside of Japan) if there would be a standard kata for them to practice.
A kata originating maybe in different schools but then they would have something authentic to train in and learn from.

The tenure of the messages I got was that it was not possible, blahblahblah, koryu to difficult, blahblahblah and to different, etc, etc.

And now to my big surprise (and happiness I should add) it seems that such a form does exist.

Steve, I am going to pm you on this one.

Best,

Johan Smits

Steve Delaney
17th May 2006, 14:32
One more thing. Some years ago I proposed on this board (and maybe on another one) it woudl be good for the practitioners of modern jujutsu in the West (meaning outside of Japan) if there would be a standard kata for them to practice.
A kata originating maybe in different schools but then they would have something authentic to train in and learn from.

The tenure of the messages I got was that it was not possible, blahblahblah, koryu to difficult, blahblahblah and to different, etc, etc.

And now to my big surprise (and happiness I should add) it seems that such a form does exist.

Johan Smits

Why do you think the Kodokan Kime no Kata was formed? Same thing mate - it preserves the older jujutsu methods. If you add on to that the Kodokan Goshinjutsu, you have oodles of fun! :)

johan smits
17th May 2006, 14:46
Steve,

You are correct of course and we did oodle for a long time but in a strange way this is (for me at least) connected to a very old discussion about the "identity (and lack thereoff) of Westernized jujutsu".

Both kata, kime no kata and Goshinjutsu are official judo kata. For jujutsu it would be good if the art would separate from judo organisations. But that is my idea and it is a very different story altogether.

best,

Johan Smits

Steve Delaney
17th May 2006, 14:55
Steve,

You are correct of course and we did oodle for a long time but in a strange way this is (for me at least) connected to a very old discussion about the "identity (and lack thereoff) of Westernized jujutsu".

So taking a kata from yet another judo source is going to give it character? (Higo-ryu Taijutsu No Kata is a kata for judoka in Kumamoto so that they can learn the geographical cultural roots of judo in their prefecture).

No, I don't think so.


Both kata, kime no kata and Goshinjutsu are official judo kata. For jujutsu it would be good if the art would separate from judo organisations. But that is my idea and it is a very different story altogether.

best,

Johan Smits

Well the Higo-ryu Taijutsu No kata is also a judo related kata. You can't seperate the two that easily.

johan smits
17th May 2006, 15:24
Steve, actually you got me there!

In that sense Higo ryu taijutsu no kata is no different than kime no kata. The only way it would differ is that it would not be an official Kodokan kata and would probably not be recognized as a judo kata (while it actually is).

Now I am confused, I will ponder on this for a while.

I have done so and I must say that due to the fact that the kata has not been part of Kodokan judo it could still do a lot of good to steer jujutsupractitioners into a direction away from the influence of judo organizations and towards independence.

best,

Johan Smits

George Kohler
17th May 2006, 22:51
神道六合流 (しんとうろくごうりゅう) Shinto Rokugo-ryu (not Rikugo). I don't know much about this school, other than it's an offshoot of Yoshin-ryu. It's still being taught in Japan as far as I know. Not much more than that.

There are two websites that refer the school as Shinto Rikugo-ryu. One is freebudo.com, which Shiigi Keibun studied this school. http://www.freebudo.com/Ichi%20Gi%20Do.htm This website mentions the name 4 times.

The other website is the kukishinden Tenshin Hyoho website. It says that Tastsuta Yasuichiro studied Shinto Rikugo-ryu art as well. http://www.shinjin.co.jp/kuki/hyoho/history06_e.htm It only mentions it one time. I went to the Japanese version and the hiragana shows as しんとうりくごうりゅう http://www.shinjin.co.jp/kuki/hyoho/history06.htm

The only information that I can find on Shinto Rokugo-ryu/Shindo Rokugo-ryu is a Aikido based school founded ironically by a person with the name Noguchi (Noguchi Senryuken), but I think this was founded after WWII.

Lance Gatling
11th April 2008, 16:53
I recently dug up the following books, separately, by chance. I'm wondering if anyone has info on this gent and his dojo.

深井子之吉 Fukai (Nenokichi? sp?) wrote a couple of books, 1st ed. 1911, published by 帝國尚武會 Teikoku Shoubukai, which is apparently the name of their dojo, too. He was the shihan.

柔術教授書 虎の巻 Jujutsu Instruction Manual - Book of the Tiger
柔術教授書 龍の巻 Jujutsu Instruction Manual - Book of the Dragon

The books have a lot of 当身 striking, a range of self defense and fairly offensive moves. The books themselves look like they were not commercially published but rather were sold individually, perhaps to dojo members or subscribers, as there is a place for the member's name on the cover.

The instructors were two brothers named Noguchi. Their father was involved in the 武徳会 Butokukai, and before that the family was perhaps involved in the Tokugawa bakufu military instruction system (haven't closely read the intro yet.)

One is Noguchi Senryuken 野口潜龍軒, the founder of 神道六合流 Shinto Rokugo Ryu / Noguchi Ryu Jujutsu, who also in 1911 wrote the book 柔術修業秘法 Jujutsu Shuugyou Hihou - Secret Jujutsu Practice Methods.
http://www.budovideos.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=21620&cat=289&page=3
"This very rare Jujutsu text was written in 1912 - the year that the author formed Shinto Rokugo Ryu - a school of Jujutsu based on 6 older schools. The emphasis in this ryu was to make learning easier and faster. With a focus on atemi, this book shows how to build a striking dummy. The rarity of this book is due to the fact that it was only sold to exclusive members.

Contents include:
-Jujutsu shugyo
-Techniques
-Secret of jujutsu shugyo
-Knowledge of gokashu-ho
-Noguchi style jujutsu
-And more "

Noguchi Senryuken is also listed on a Japanese website as 帝國尚武會創始者 自稱8段 ('Teikoku Shoubukai Founder / self-professed 8th dan')
http://tbbird.asablo.jp/blog/2006/09/10/517864
also fought, and lost to, Ad Santel, the famous wrestler, in Tokyo in 1915.

(Source: Japan Times, 3 Mar 1921, 5; Japan Times, 25 May 1921, 8.
Ad Santel defeated Senryuken Noguchi - 11/30/15)

Shinto Rokugo Ryu and Noguchi Ryu seemingly disappeared with these gents.

Anyone have anything else on these gents and their arts, dojos?

If I feel the urge to crown myself Grandmaster Soke of something, this one looks like a good place to start! :karatekid

Thanks,

George Kohler
11th April 2008, 17:44
[this post was merged with this current thread] is a thread that was opened about them.

Lance Gatling
11th April 2008, 23:21
http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33983 is a thread that was opened about them.
Yes, thanks, I saw this after I opened this new topic, but there really wasn't much info in the other.