Dave_lauderdale
17th May 2006, 23:02
Hello all,
Where to begin? I would like to get into martial arts but in my search for a good dojo/instructor I have to admit that I am almost totally disillusioned...This is probably a good thing. Illusions are just that...illusions!
I have a bit to say here in order to better explain my situation but my questions are valid and I could really use a bit of help in deciding where to go from here. I am only addressing this thread to serious martial artists and forum members. So please dont blow this post off as being long winded or what have you...
You might ask, Why do I explain myself so much? To clear up misunderstandings and since I am asking you for help in making an informed decision it only works in my own best interest if you have an idea of what my thought process is in order to better direct me. I can read all I want and ask all the right questions when entering a new dojo, but the answer(s) your going to get is scripted..."come in and see us train". Yea, and if you dont really know what your looking at it all looks like karate :) I cant sit in on a session and know if there full of it or not. So I am relying on the first hand experience of others.
I have spent a few weeks now researching local dojos and the martial arts in general and I am SHOCKED at the state of the martial arts community. Con men, wanna be tough guys, 10 year old BBs and 30 year old grandmasters...money, money money! One of the first McDojos I went to was Atemi Ryu in Hollywood Florida (http://www.atemi-ryu.com/). Within 5 minutes of me being there the guy was talking about breaking someones arm...uh, is this supposed to impress me? What about the legal ramifications of breaking a guys arm cause he was drunk in some bar and said he was going to kick your butt...thats bad news! I am not going to bash anyone here (this is not a bad budo post...besides I already read up on these guys from past posts here and other sites). But nonetheless, I really dont know where else to go for answers.
I read http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/ and I have to say that I know nothing of this man but his thought process regarding what 'fighting', 'self defense', 'combat arts' and the legal aftermath of these ideologies was well written. This at least should make you (as it did me) question WHY you want to get into martial arts. I am thankful for the insight but it also leaves me even more confused!
Certain things/debates that I dont really know what to think:
Side one: A real school will allow the students to compete in competitions. this is a public acknowledgment of their student(s) and it gives you and others a chance to test out your skill / ability versus another school. If a school doesnt compete they are hiding sub par teachings.
Side two: A real school doesnt teach competition 'point' fighting. We teach only street skills so we dont compete in tournaments. Besides, tournaments are just advertising and money makers for the schools and organizations hosting the event.
----
Side one: Traditional Martial arts or the only 'respected' arts. These are the only REAL styles. Mixed martial arts schools just teach sub standard fighting techniques with dirty tricks to make them 'street effective'. "Kick him in the gonads", "poke him in the eye"...yea, how much did I pay for this information???!!!
Side two: Mixed arts are more realistic to todays fighting environment but no one will recognize your achievements (BB) as worthy even if you can kick their butt.
----
My ideologies:
* I am not a 'fighter' I am no junk yard dog tough guy...and I dont claim to be. I also dont think that a black belt even an honestly earned one will make you tough. I can honestly tell you that the best three 'secret weapons' in self defense is 1) a calm head...keep your cool 2) a soft tongue...try to calm the attackers aggression, dont try to Boo up the attacker 3) fast feet...when all else fails run like hell. Now keep in mind this is the best form of 'self defense'. I do think you can learn these things from studying the martial arts but these abilities can come from other factors too. Yes, sometimes a boo game will work but only on a weak, half hearted attacker. A real tough guy will call your bluff and show you how tough you arent!
* Too many martial arts instructors fail to mention the adrenal dump that takes place in an UNPROVOKED attack and how to work/think through it (only real experience will counter this if at all, really the fight or flight response is quite natural and is hard to control). If you are the aggressor in a situation you (in a fight you are both aggressors this includes sparring and competition bouts) have time to think a bit but this also is NOT self defense!
* As far as 'combat' weapons training goes, well, If a guy pulls a knife or gun on you and asks for your wallet then give him the wallet, this is not a time to try out your dojo tested kung fu tricks. If a guy pulls a gun on you and says he's going to kill you then you must react, try to disarm him (using untested dojo kung fu trick...plus cross your fingers and hope it works!) and get out of there asap! If a guy comes up to you and pushes you and you break his arm you are going to jail for using excessive force!
* Fighting is illegal...period. Going to jail on an assault charge is good way to see how tough your NOT! But I do believe that it is desired in any self defense class to teach one how to fight as well as how to avoid one. I almost think that straight up boxing would be a nice compliment to any martial art that you are taking for 'fighting abilities' or self defense.
* There is NO style that does it all...this is frustrating for me.
Some sites I have been thinking about and my thoughts about them and the effectiveness of the 'style':
http://www.shorin-ryu-karate.com/ - This seems like decent traditional martial arts. I would learn discipline, confidence and all that (which really I already have). I do not measure myself based on how I fight! But, is this a waste of time as far as self defense, fighting skills go? Yes the training helps build stamina and endurance which could help you run or fight but are 200 year old fighting techniques actually realistic as far as physically defending off an attacker?
http://www.bushidoknights.com/ - I have read on this site that these guys may be alright. My problem here is...it is not traditional which by itself doesnt mean that it is bad but it is not recognized by anyone! In other words, Lets say I spend 4 years of my time and money and am awarded a BB. I move to Arizona and I go to a new dojo, what do I say, I have a BB in a non standard style of karate? Then your belt/achievements dont matter. Yes I know belts dont matter anyway but lets be real...We are goal oriented people. We strive to reach our goals. The BB is a goal to most people in martial arts. You work hard to obtain it and no one wants to be told that it doesnt hold water! Thats like going to a college and studying for years and you finally get your degree and when you go to get a job your prospective employer says that your degree is useless!
I am truly torn, I do want to learn fighting skills but not for fighting. I dont think self defense should be, "here is how you break his neck". Because I have been in situations where I just wanted to defend myself, not kill the guy (even if he did attack me)! I have never been in a life or death struggle...in a life or death struggle then yea, do what ever you have to in order to stop the threat, but this kind of UNPROVOKED scenario is rare and I dont think people should obsess on it like these combat warriors seem to. I can understand that when a woman is raped she wants to learn how to simply drop any future attacker as quickly as possible (hence the 'break neck' schools).
I am afraid I am rambling cause I have soooo many questions...I guess in short I am saying:
Does anyone in the south Florida (Broward county) area know of a GOOD place to study/train at? I like the idea of traditional martial arts but lack faith in its effectiveness for real life self defense. Although, a few years back I used to work with a guy who was a job site super and he studied GoJo Ryu in Miami. I must say that traditional art or not this was a tough guy that I wouldnt want to fight even if I knew what I was doing. maybe 'cause he was just a tough guy his karate seemed tough too. What would be a good path for me to embark on given my current beliefs and situations?
Any ideas, flames, comments appreciated.
Thanks and take it easy,
Dave Lauderdale, south Florida
Where to begin? I would like to get into martial arts but in my search for a good dojo/instructor I have to admit that I am almost totally disillusioned...This is probably a good thing. Illusions are just that...illusions!
I have a bit to say here in order to better explain my situation but my questions are valid and I could really use a bit of help in deciding where to go from here. I am only addressing this thread to serious martial artists and forum members. So please dont blow this post off as being long winded or what have you...
You might ask, Why do I explain myself so much? To clear up misunderstandings and since I am asking you for help in making an informed decision it only works in my own best interest if you have an idea of what my thought process is in order to better direct me. I can read all I want and ask all the right questions when entering a new dojo, but the answer(s) your going to get is scripted..."come in and see us train". Yea, and if you dont really know what your looking at it all looks like karate :) I cant sit in on a session and know if there full of it or not. So I am relying on the first hand experience of others.
I have spent a few weeks now researching local dojos and the martial arts in general and I am SHOCKED at the state of the martial arts community. Con men, wanna be tough guys, 10 year old BBs and 30 year old grandmasters...money, money money! One of the first McDojos I went to was Atemi Ryu in Hollywood Florida (http://www.atemi-ryu.com/). Within 5 minutes of me being there the guy was talking about breaking someones arm...uh, is this supposed to impress me? What about the legal ramifications of breaking a guys arm cause he was drunk in some bar and said he was going to kick your butt...thats bad news! I am not going to bash anyone here (this is not a bad budo post...besides I already read up on these guys from past posts here and other sites). But nonetheless, I really dont know where else to go for answers.
I read http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/ and I have to say that I know nothing of this man but his thought process regarding what 'fighting', 'self defense', 'combat arts' and the legal aftermath of these ideologies was well written. This at least should make you (as it did me) question WHY you want to get into martial arts. I am thankful for the insight but it also leaves me even more confused!
Certain things/debates that I dont really know what to think:
Side one: A real school will allow the students to compete in competitions. this is a public acknowledgment of their student(s) and it gives you and others a chance to test out your skill / ability versus another school. If a school doesnt compete they are hiding sub par teachings.
Side two: A real school doesnt teach competition 'point' fighting. We teach only street skills so we dont compete in tournaments. Besides, tournaments are just advertising and money makers for the schools and organizations hosting the event.
----
Side one: Traditional Martial arts or the only 'respected' arts. These are the only REAL styles. Mixed martial arts schools just teach sub standard fighting techniques with dirty tricks to make them 'street effective'. "Kick him in the gonads", "poke him in the eye"...yea, how much did I pay for this information???!!!
Side two: Mixed arts are more realistic to todays fighting environment but no one will recognize your achievements (BB) as worthy even if you can kick their butt.
----
My ideologies:
* I am not a 'fighter' I am no junk yard dog tough guy...and I dont claim to be. I also dont think that a black belt even an honestly earned one will make you tough. I can honestly tell you that the best three 'secret weapons' in self defense is 1) a calm head...keep your cool 2) a soft tongue...try to calm the attackers aggression, dont try to Boo up the attacker 3) fast feet...when all else fails run like hell. Now keep in mind this is the best form of 'self defense'. I do think you can learn these things from studying the martial arts but these abilities can come from other factors too. Yes, sometimes a boo game will work but only on a weak, half hearted attacker. A real tough guy will call your bluff and show you how tough you arent!
* Too many martial arts instructors fail to mention the adrenal dump that takes place in an UNPROVOKED attack and how to work/think through it (only real experience will counter this if at all, really the fight or flight response is quite natural and is hard to control). If you are the aggressor in a situation you (in a fight you are both aggressors this includes sparring and competition bouts) have time to think a bit but this also is NOT self defense!
* As far as 'combat' weapons training goes, well, If a guy pulls a knife or gun on you and asks for your wallet then give him the wallet, this is not a time to try out your dojo tested kung fu tricks. If a guy pulls a gun on you and says he's going to kill you then you must react, try to disarm him (using untested dojo kung fu trick...plus cross your fingers and hope it works!) and get out of there asap! If a guy comes up to you and pushes you and you break his arm you are going to jail for using excessive force!
* Fighting is illegal...period. Going to jail on an assault charge is good way to see how tough your NOT! But I do believe that it is desired in any self defense class to teach one how to fight as well as how to avoid one. I almost think that straight up boxing would be a nice compliment to any martial art that you are taking for 'fighting abilities' or self defense.
* There is NO style that does it all...this is frustrating for me.
Some sites I have been thinking about and my thoughts about them and the effectiveness of the 'style':
http://www.shorin-ryu-karate.com/ - This seems like decent traditional martial arts. I would learn discipline, confidence and all that (which really I already have). I do not measure myself based on how I fight! But, is this a waste of time as far as self defense, fighting skills go? Yes the training helps build stamina and endurance which could help you run or fight but are 200 year old fighting techniques actually realistic as far as physically defending off an attacker?
http://www.bushidoknights.com/ - I have read on this site that these guys may be alright. My problem here is...it is not traditional which by itself doesnt mean that it is bad but it is not recognized by anyone! In other words, Lets say I spend 4 years of my time and money and am awarded a BB. I move to Arizona and I go to a new dojo, what do I say, I have a BB in a non standard style of karate? Then your belt/achievements dont matter. Yes I know belts dont matter anyway but lets be real...We are goal oriented people. We strive to reach our goals. The BB is a goal to most people in martial arts. You work hard to obtain it and no one wants to be told that it doesnt hold water! Thats like going to a college and studying for years and you finally get your degree and when you go to get a job your prospective employer says that your degree is useless!
I am truly torn, I do want to learn fighting skills but not for fighting. I dont think self defense should be, "here is how you break his neck". Because I have been in situations where I just wanted to defend myself, not kill the guy (even if he did attack me)! I have never been in a life or death struggle...in a life or death struggle then yea, do what ever you have to in order to stop the threat, but this kind of UNPROVOKED scenario is rare and I dont think people should obsess on it like these combat warriors seem to. I can understand that when a woman is raped she wants to learn how to simply drop any future attacker as quickly as possible (hence the 'break neck' schools).
I am afraid I am rambling cause I have soooo many questions...I guess in short I am saying:
Does anyone in the south Florida (Broward county) area know of a GOOD place to study/train at? I like the idea of traditional martial arts but lack faith in its effectiveness for real life self defense. Although, a few years back I used to work with a guy who was a job site super and he studied GoJo Ryu in Miami. I must say that traditional art or not this was a tough guy that I wouldnt want to fight even if I knew what I was doing. maybe 'cause he was just a tough guy his karate seemed tough too. What would be a good path for me to embark on given my current beliefs and situations?
Any ideas, flames, comments appreciated.
Thanks and take it easy,
Dave Lauderdale, south Florida