Godo...

[amadus]

So, what does everyone think about this?

www.godoinfo.com (http://www.godoinfo.com/index.shtml)

[Shizentai]

So, what does everyone think about this?

www.godoinfo.com (http://www.godoinfo.com/index.shtml)

Hoax.....!

[Michael-H]

Brilliant, I haven't had this much fun since Nth degree.

/M

[MarkF]

Do not be so quick to dismiss. There has always be Go tecinique in judo and the quote from Kano is nearly word for word to a group of interested iluminaries who attended the lecture Kano gave that included a former US president Ulysses S. Grant, a demonstration of that very fact, Kano was a teenager when he discussed jujutsu at this time.


"A main feature of the art is the application of the principles of nonresistance and taking advantage of the opponent's loss of equilibrium; hence the name Jujutsu (literally soft or gentle art), or Judo (doctrine of softness or gentleness). Now let me explain this principle by actual example...

Suppose my opponent tries to lift my body, intending to make me fall. If I resist him, I shall be thrown down, because my strength to resist is not sufficient to overcome his. If, on the other hand, I leave him unresisted and, while so doing, pull him this way (illustrating), throwing my body voluntarily on the ground, I can throw him very easily.
I could multiply these examples, but probably those I have given will suffice to enable you to understand how one may beat an opponent by not resisting him. But there are cases in which this principle does not apply. Suppose, for instance, my opponent takes hold of my right wrist and I resist him; there is no means of releasing it from his hold. The best way would be to move my arm so that my whole strength is used to counteract his hand grip, the strength which is of course far inferior to my concentrated strength and therefore gives way to it. In such a case I used my strength against his, contrary to the principle of nonresistance... These examples serve to show that the principle of non-resistance is not applicable in all cases.

Is there then, any principle which never fails of application? Yes, there is! And that is the principle of Maximum Efficiency in Use of Mind and Body. Nonresistance is only ONE instance of the application of this fundamental principle.

The basic principle of physical Judo lies then within "Maximum Efficiency in Use of Mind and Body" This principle has been shown to have two divergent factors, nonresistance and resistance... Judo and Godo. Each is, in its appropriate application, patterned after maximum efficiency, equally compatible with the ideals of Kodokan Judo."



I read this when I was a teenager, and it is the exact exhition Kano gave on the art of go (did we forget the Go no Kata so quickly)? It isn't an another art, it is simply the admission that jujutu is not always an art of yielding, that certain kinds of Go were necessary at a given time.

Shame on those who call themselved Judoka.;)

That is the verbatim by Kano-Sensei at the demonstration and explanation of the "not everything you see can simply be explained away with only force on force. Is there no one who has learned the Atemi jutsu?

I suppose you, ah, thought it was no go,so if someome wants to call that aspect of judo Godo. well, it fits.

I did not mean anything by my post but this is one of the older and more famous of Kano's demonstrations.

Go you, young men, to libaries and auction site or simply search the Internet, For Kano's books or just the speech as iit should be an easy search to find there, if you do not wish to search the archives here on that very subject.

[Mateo]

Go you, young men, to libaries and auction site or simply search the Internet, For Kano's books or just the speech as it should be an easy search to find there, if you do not wish to search the archives here on that very subject.

Or to a bookseller

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/4770030150/sr=8-1/qid=1149484380/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-9492011-1691204?%5Fencoding=UTF8

[MarkF]

Well yeah, sure.;)


Mark

[Mateo]

Really just an excuse to post the fact that there is a book of Kano's lectures out there for an absurdly affordable price. I've order one myself but it hasn't arrived yet.

[Mateo]

The site seems to identify 'godo' as a separate but complimentary system to judo while it was my impression that 'judo' was the art of using one's opponent's strength to our advantage while 'godo' is the intelligent use of strength when we are applying our own technique at the moment that was created by our 'judo'. In other words that they were both tactics which may be used even in the execution of the same technique within the art we refer to as judo.

Any thoughts on this interpretation?

[kimiwane]

...they were both tactics which may be used even in the execution of the same technique within the art we refer to as judo.

Any thoughts on this interpretation?

Matt, as always, on hand with some good information.

And Mark, too.

But I wonder about that website. The only time I ever heard the term "godo" was when Mochizuki sensei said that Kano sensei used it to scold him for his mistaken approach to training. He was winning like crazy and I think the situation was that he won two tournaments in one day, but in the process, forgot to attend a meeting he had scheduled with Kano sensei.

Kano was very angry at him and told him, "You're not doing Judo! You're doing Godo!" meaning that he was living by force and should change his ways.

So I don't know what to think about some of these quotes. I just think the website looks like someone's trying to capitalize on some comments to make it seem like Godo was developed as an entirely different art. I don't think that's accurate, but anything you guys say has to be considered.

Thanks for the insights.

David

[Mateo]

Thanks David, but Mark is the expert on the subject here to be sure.

I have done my reading, though. Perhaps I'm wrong but in the quote on the site about 'judo' and 'godo'. I took the 'do' in this instance to mean literally 'a way' or method or skill and not to imply that 'godo' was a separate art, as I have never heard of Kano every having tried to support such a thing.

Indeed he seemed to use judo as a highly inclusive term in that it was broad enough to include the kata of the Kito-ryu that he had learned and a great many of the Tenjin Shin-yo ryu and other influences as well, all under the banner of judo. The Goshin-jutsu kata even includes the tactics of aikido which were consciously pursued for inclusion by kano himself through the sending out of people like Tomiki and David's own teacher Mochizuki Minoru to learn the art and bring back its essense to the Kodokan.

We know that there was a 'forms of hardness' kata but this was incorporated into the art of judo as this thread discusses at length. One might ask why this kata was allowed to fall into obscurity if it was found to be of great value to judoka while even fairly esoteric kata have been preserved?