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Moriki
10th June 2006, 10:56
Hi,

Just mooching through Osano Jun's Jujutsu book and came across 'Shiba Shinyo ryu' Anyone got any more info on this ryuha and its link to Tenjin Shinyo ryu.

Thanks

Mekugi
11th June 2006, 15:46
The guy to ask on here is Steve Delaney. He's the walking Koryu Bujutsu encyclopdia.

fifthchamber
11th June 2006, 23:44
Steve Delaney. The walking Koryu Bujutsu encyclopdia
Can I get a T-Shirt with this on?
And I looked in the Ryuha Daijiten but it only says the founder had studied the Tenjin Shinyo Ryu and decided to use the name.. Along with other schools..
柴真楊流
You could ask at the Tenyokai in Southend?

Moriki
12th June 2006, 05:57
You could ask at the Tenyokai in Southend?

Thanks guys,
yeah, I'm going up to Southend at the weekend, I'll ask. :)
But in the meantime, if Steve has any info he would like to share, it would be much appreciated.

Cheers

fifthchamber
12th June 2006, 06:18
I think that most of what I found about it is in Japanese and that could be a problem..But good luck..
Steve is always a good bet.
Regards.

Mekugi
12th June 2006, 13:33
Can I get a T-Shirt with this on?


I have another one that says "Steve Delaney...the walking (expletive)"...are you interested in that?

Ree
12th June 2006, 14:59
Brian

Which Osano book was it?

George Kohler
12th June 2006, 16:45
Nihon Jujutsu Illistrated

It lists it on page 284, but on page 007 Jun Osano says that he studied this school.

Ree
12th June 2006, 17:14
Dear George

Osano is linked with Sato Kinbei who was taught by Miyamoto Hanzo.To what level I do not know.

George Kohler
12th June 2006, 20:11
Hi Lee,

Yes, there is a link, but I believe his Shiba Shinyo-ryu is not connected to Sato Kinbei. In the book it even shows Osano training with his Shiba Shinyo-ryu teacher (page 28 and 31). Sorry, I can't read all of the book so I don't know his name.

George Kohler
12th June 2006, 20:40
BTW, Osano says the originator is Fujita Ginpachiro (sp?) 藤田銀八郎 .

Moriki
12th June 2006, 20:54
Nihon Jujutsu Illistrated
Thanks George, yeah thats the one.
Lee, I can bring the book up on the weekend if you havnt seen it.

Ree
13th June 2006, 07:39
Hi all

I have the book,sorry I was talking about Sato Kinbei's Tenjin Shinyo Ryu connection.

Steve Delaney
13th June 2006, 19:29
With all due respect, Mr. Osano is a rather good researcher and with that a prolific author of books related to koryu bujutsu & jujutsu. He is a collector of mikomono & densho and during the writing of his books, he has had access to a number of academic sources, including high ranking members of various koryu ryuha and a number of prefectural universities in Japan that have possession of old koryu densho.

On the flip side of this, he is a member of the Kokusai Budoin (The IMAF in English). This in Japan has a bit of a reputation for being a dan grade mill in certain circles. He has certainly done a considerable amount of dojo hopping, he has trained in Yagyu Shingan-ryu heijutsu (Under two sources - Sato Kinbei & Shimizu Kenji), Asayama Ichiden-ryu, Rikishin-ryu (Under Miwa Shihan), Shibukawa Ichi-ryu jujutsu, Tendo-ryu naginata, Imagawa-ryu bojutsu, Shindo Munen-ryu iaijutsu, Inyo Danshin-ryu Goshin Bojutsu, Hyoho Tenka Niten Ichi ryu! (Hyaku, check this guy out - Araseki Tomisaburo) and of course, Soden (full teaching) in Shiba Shinyo-ryu jujutsu.

How can one man get good at all of these koryu in one lifetime?

Re: Shiba Shinyo-ryu jujutsu

Mr. Osano in his books lists a Machigawa Kiyoshi (町川清 ) Shihan as his teacher. Eventhough the Bugei Ryuha Daijiten is not the be-all & end-all of koryu research books, the information listed shouldn't be ignored.

In the listing for Shiba Shinyo-ryu on the BRDJ, there is no listing of a Mr. Machigawa Kiyoshi. However, the lineage might have changed since then, since there hasn't been any tangible information out there to prove or disprove this since 1978, it's rather hard to say. (The last printing of the BRDJ was in 1978.)

Shiba Shinyo-ryu is an amalgamation of Tenjin Shinyo-ryu jujutsu, Yoshin-ryu, and Shiba Shin-ryu. The founder Yata Isshinsai studied Tenjin Shinyo-ryu under a Kuriihara Shingo (栗飯原真吾 ), Yoshin-ryu under Ryushima Shingo (柳島信行 ) and Shiba Shin-ryu under Fujita Ginpachiro (藤田銀八郎 ). It's rather a new koryu, when you consider the founding date of Tenjin Shinyo-ryu being 1830. The system is just listed as jujutsu, so presumably the jujutsu syllabus is comprised of suhada (plain clothes) techniques.

When I was still living in Japan two years ago, I asked Kubota sensei about Shiba Shinyo-ryu after keiko. He said it was either a dead line or it's so small now that probably noone is practicing it anymore.

Hope this helps. :)

Moriki
13th June 2006, 22:07
Thanks Steve for the Info :cool:

Steve Delaney
14th June 2006, 00:37
No problem Brian.