Developed power through Kata.

[Katsu!]

Hi all,

In the last few years i have begun to feel an increase in physical power and speed following the practice of varoius kata. In particular when doing hyper extension Sanchin. It seems i can take more powerful strikes to the body as well as an increased proficiency in breaking objects. I was wondering how others who study Karate have experienced this?


Regards,

Marko Miletic

[CEB]

I'm curious. What is hyper extension Sanchin?

Thanks

[Katsu!]

Hi CEB,

Some people do sanchin in a softer manner without completely tensing their body. I was just trying to make point out that we do it very hard.

Couldn't think of a better term so i came up with that one.


Marko Miletic

[Prince Loeffler]

Hi CEB,

Some people do sanchin in a softer manner without completely tensing their body. I was just trying to make point out that we do it very hard.

Couldn't think of a better term so i came up with that one.


Marko Miletic


I am curious as to what style does the Sanchin Kata without the tension ?

Thanks

[cxt]

Interesting that the "hard" practice of Sanchin and the "soft" practice of Tai Chi both often end up in the "same" place.

Any number of "soft" stylists can also "take" a pretty good blow, and they also seem to develop power.

Making all kinds of REALLY broad generalizations here.

A really good buddy of mine does Okinawan Goju and Tai Chi.

He often comments on the "multiple paths to the top of the mountian" thing.

[CEB]

None Prince. Everything is done with some kind of tension else our bodies would be like a pile of goo just flopping all out of center every which way inertia would take us. :)

But some Sanchin are done at different speeds and with different degrees of tension. We teach it with different levels of tension. We also do it fast.

For us Sanchin isn't about working the body all at a 100% but instead working 100% of the body at X% ( some constant level).

In fact we are currently discussing Sanchin right now.

[Victor Smith]

Prince,

While some tension is always present in being alive, when you question which style(s) does Sanchin without the tension, I think you're referring to the hard tension that Sanchin which desecended from Miyagi's Goju uses.

For one Uechi Sanchin does not employ the tension or the breathing done in Goju. They breath with a relative normal breath and strike without extended tension at regular technique speed.

Miyagi's Sanchin derived from his instructor, Hiagonna Kanryo. Another system that derived from Hiagonna, is Tou'n Ryu. It is similar in shape to Goju's Sanchin but does not employ hard tension, rather a softer flowing technique. This came from personal observation having seen Mario McKenna perform it. Of couse my observation isn't necessarily correct.

McKenna Sensei lives in British Columbia, Canada and has written on the system in the online Meibukan magazine Issue No. 5 has an extensive article on the system.

Yet another system using Sanchin without tension is my own teaching. The Isshinryu Sanchin I originally studied is a variation of the Miyagi Sanchin, and done with hard tension. But experiencing the clean energy release in Uechi Sanchin after many years of indecision, I finally performed my Sanchin, full power and full speed, and vowed never to change from that.

I see Sanchin, today, as a great way to tear into anyones attack, with some very obvious advantages as I perform it.

[Katsu!]

Interesting that the "hard" practice of Sanchin and the "soft" practice of Tai Chi both often end up in the "same" place.

Any number of "soft" stylists can also "take" a pretty good blow, and they also seem to develop power.

Making all kinds of REALLY broad generalizations here.

A really good buddy of mine does Okinawan Goju and Tai Chi.

He often comments on the "multiple paths to the top of the mountian" thing.

Your friend is right about that. In Goju there is also a Kata called tensho. Miyagi sensei created it to compliment sanchin. Its a flowing soft breathing and tension kata. The comparison he made was that sanchin is the Go and tensho is the Ju.

Marko Miletic

[trevorg]

I am curious as to what style does the Sanchin Kata without the tension ?

Thanks

Kyokushin. Steve Arneill hanshi does it soft and hard.
Trevor Gilbert

[trevorg]

I am curious as to what style does the Sanchin Kata without the tension ?

Thanks
I just found this which was a report of a visit by Arneill Hanshi:

Until Hanshi's visit, I had always thought there was only one Sanchin Kata, the hard one, you know, where one has to contract every muscle and do ibuki breathing with each move. Hanshi taught us another two: the first is a gentle, tai chi-esque one in which one does each move, including the breathing, slowly and smoothly. This one can be used to relax after a fast and furious part of a training session. No strong muscle contractions, just flow. The second form was a power sanchin kata; fast, hard, and with a kiai at each move. That's not hard, you might say. True enough, if you only do it once through. Hanshi uses it as part of his tournament training. All the non-fighters do the tai chi-like version. The fighters do the kiai version TEN times. Everyone must finish at the same time. We tried it — black belts with kiai and all others did the flowing version. When the slow version was finished, the result was kyu grades 1 and black belts 6, and according to Hanshi, not a very good six. The black belts, ranging from 1st to 5th dan, included several national champions and international competitors. Now we know part of the reason why, in 1975-76, Hanshi's team was the first non-Japanese team to win the World Karate Championships!
We've all done kihon and ido geiko — seemingly endless repetitions of the same technique or combination either standing still or moving back and forth. Hanshi Arneil takes it a step further, making it harder, but perhaps more appealing to the beginner, certainly so for the more advanced. Firstly, you change direction with each combination. Doing this with a normal lunge punch is simple, but when using combinations, say front leg kick, back leg kick, block, and punch, or changing techniques with each change of direction, you find that your brain may well be working harder than your body! Think quickly, and work both sides of your body evenly, are the principles here. We always thought that we were fulfilling those principles, but this proved us wrong. The second point, and this is what can make it more appealing to beginners, is that he varied the method of execution of the techniques between formal style and street style. This way, a raw beginner can begin to learn what he or she probably came to learn – self defense – without having to spar and risking injury (or injuring someone) before they have developed better control.
______________________
.....and I also remember reading a treatise on the ill effects of Sanchin somewhere. I will have a look and see if i can find it.


Trevor Gilbert

[Katsujinken]

Originally Posted by Prince Loeffler
I am curious as to what style does the Sanchin Kata without the tension ?

Moto-Te Sanchin as practised in Motobu Udun Ti of Seikichi Uehara and at the Bugeikan of Seitoku Higa. The emphasis is on loosening and stretching the limbs.

Regards