What is 'oyo'?

[Harlan]

I have heard a term new to me...'oyo'...in relation to bunkai.

Can someone please define it for me...and what is the difference between it and 'regular' bunkai?

Thank you.

[Prince Loeffler]

I have heard a term new to me...'oyo'...in relation to bunkai.

Can someone please define it for me...and what is the difference between it and 'regular' bunkai?

Thank you.

In my personal knowledge, Oyo Bunkai is literall translation of "personal" intepretation of the Kata. Another word that might suit its meaning is "Secondary " Layers of interpretations of the kihon within the kata. I could be wrong but thanks for the refresher inquiery, now you got me thinking.. :)

[Nyuck3X]

Bunkai is the word for the analyzing of application and Oyo is the
application of techniques.

The layers you are describing Prince are called okuden waza.
(According to Kane & Wilder's book "the way of kata").

Peace

[Sheree Adams]

Hi there,

I can give you what understanding I have from my teacher in Okinawa and how we use these terms.

Bunkai is the basic application of the techniques in the kata. They are set and are done without changing the form of the techniques within the kata. One of the uses of bunkai is to keep the proper form of a kata. Without pictures, videos, and DVDs, (like we have now) it was used to keep the form from straying. If you think a technique could be this, could be that, could be a million different things, then, over time, your kata starts to take on the form of X, Y, and Z. So, form and bunkai are complementary and are used to things from straying.

Oyo, on the other hand, is your personal, creative, ideas of how to implement a variety of techniques within a kata. To give an example, the technique may start out the same, but then go on, or end abruptly, depending on your personal ideas.

That's how we use the terms bunkai and oyo. Bunkai simple, with it's purpose, oyo, creative. Kind of like ippon kumite vs. jiyu kumite.

And, this is where, according to my teacher, people have a huge misunderstanding. You do bunkai and they think it's simple and obvious. Well, in most cases it is, but just imagine if you had no way to preserve the kata over 300 years, how would you do that? I've seen people who do oyo and call it bunkai and the kata begins to change over time.

So, this is one way you can differentiate the two. Both are important.

Hope that helps.

Sheree

[Prince Loeffler]

Bunkai is the word for the analyzing of application and Oyo is the
application of techniques.

The layers you are describing Prince are called okuden waza.
(According to Kane & Wilder's book "the way of kata").

Peace


Thanks for the info Ray, I'll appreciate it a lot.

[Mitch Saret]

Well, I was going to respond much in the way Sheree did, as my understanding is essentially the same. But she was so eloquent I'll let her post stand as is!

[Harlan]

Thank you for the replies.

[Gary Wado]

In Wado Ryu in the UK we have four main types of Kumite:

Ippone Kumite - One Step Fighting
Ohyu Kumte - Semi Free Fighting
Kiyon Kumite - Basic Fighting
Ji-yu Kumite - Free Fighting

We say that Ohyu Kumite is the "Transition" between one step sparing and free fighting, as the moves are less regimented and are more free flowing.

Gary

www.wado-kai-karate.co.uk

[Ed_morris]

bunkai is the application, oyo is the analysis ... and I've recently read 'oyo bunkai' is the variations of the applications (via analysis).

source: http://www.iogkf.it/nakamuramod.htm

[Nyuck3X]

Sorry Ed,

I have to disagree. The example you posted does not define the terms.

Here is my source from Mr. Patrick McCarthy's web site:

http://www.koryu-uchinadi.org/KU_HAPV.pdf

On the bottom of page 2 under "Reverse Engineering" he describes
bunkai-jutsu as analyzing and oyo-waza as application practices.

I trust Mr. McCarthy's definition because he is an English speaker first,
Fluent in Japanese and is married to a Japanese national to whom he can
varify his conclusions.

Peace.

[Nyuck3X]

Oyo, on the other hand, is your personal, creative, ideas of how to implement a variety of techniques within a kata. To give an example, the technique may start out the same, but then go on, or end abruptly, depending on your personal ideas.

This is what Kane and Wilder describe as henka waza in their book "The Way of Kata".

Peace.

[Mekugi]

応用　Ôｙô
Application

分解　Bunkai
Analysis; dissection or to take apart.

[Nyuck3X]

Mr. Ebert,

I noticed that you also posted the characters for the words. Can you
define each one so we can get a better understanding of what we are
discussing? It would be much appreciated.

Thank-you.

Best regards,

[Andrew S]

分解する Bunkai suru (verb) to break down; to disect; to take apart.
応用する Oyo suru (verb) to apply; to put to practical use.



This is what Kane and Wilder describe as henka waza in their book "The Way of Kata".
I've also come across the term 応用変化技　oyo henka waza which would be "variations of practical applications"　or "applied variations of technique".

Does this help?

[Nyuck3X]

Does this help?

Mr. Smallacombe,

Thank-you for the excellent definitions. Yes, it helps very much.
Oyo henka waza does make a lot more sense.

Peace

[Ed_morris]

Interesting, seems it depends on the interpreter due to it's ambiguity.

I agree the literal meaning from kanji indicates what you are saying is true, when it's used in a sentance however, they seem to take the opposite meaning to each other. Is this from a long-time misinterpretation? or are the words ambiguous? all I know is my Japanese sensei who didn't speak much English at the time used the word 'bunkai' to mean actual application. 'bunkai ikimasho ka' = 'lets do bunkai'. Then we proceeded to do applications without talking or analyzing. and I never heard him use 'oyo'.

On Okinawa, I hear that some sensei use the Okinawan/Japanese term for 'play' (asobo) instead of oyo. ;) which meant "play with the principals (ie analyze) and come up with variations of the application."
"play" or "asobo" makes more sense to me.

for instance, is it possible or make sense to 'demonstrate analysis' without using words? If not, then by your definition, how can we 'show bunkai' ? everyone uses the term bunkai as a demonstratable thing without needing words. all books are written in that context. also I recall the use of 'analyzing bunkai' and 'bunkai analysis'. so would that mean analysis of the analysis? doesn't make sense.

* 'bunkai videos' with no talking.
* the cover of classical fighting arts issue #9: "Bunkai: A guide to the applications of Karate techniques"
* "Bunkai-Jutsu: The Practical Application of Karate Kata " Ian Abernethy
etc...
(and the ":" is an important distiction from saying 'and the')

here's a good ambiguous definition:

"Bunkai, in a basic sense, means to study the applications of the movements of kata." -Charles C. Goodin

? does that mean it's the process of study or the practice of applications ?

'study the applications' could mean practice them, or investigate them.

interpreting thru direct kanji breakdown ('kanji bunkai' ? lol), is always dangerous unless you specificaly study chinese characters and their history of use.

In the end, I'll use English anyway....but my sensei's choice of words thru the years, whether in English or Japanese or Hogan, are always right. :)

[Nyuck3X]

1. On Okinawa, I hear that some sensei use the Okinawan/Japanese term for 'play' (asobo) instead of oyo. ;) which meant "play with the principals (ie analyze) and come up with variations of the application."
"play" or "asobo" makes more sense to me.

2. all books are written in that context. also I recall the use of 'analyzing bunkai' and 'bunkai analysis'. so would that mean analysis of the analysis? doesn't make sense.

3. In the end, I'll use English anyway....but my sensei's choice of words thru the years, whether in English or Japanese or Hogan, are always right. :)


1. My teachers and I also use "play" to refer to practice.

2. People also use the term "P.I.N. number" when P.I.N. stands for
"personal indentification number". Also redundent. Probably perpetuated
by people who didn't understand the banking language.

3. Sensei is always right. :p

Terminology even between ryuha can be ambigous. There is no
standardization of terms in Okinawa that I know of.

It is more important that we continue to practice the analyzing and
practice of combat principles. After all, a rose is a rose by any other name...

Peace.

[Mekugi]

Mr. Ebert,

I noticed that you also posted the characters for the words. Can you
define each one so we can get a better understanding of what we are
discussing? It would be much appreciated.

Thank-you.

Best regards,

Hi!
Call me Russ and no, it's not a problem.
Ouyou(Ôｙô)
Ou(ô):
応: answer, reply, respond
you(ｙô):
用: 1.Work, function, errand, engagement- 2. Use, adopt, apply.

This is a rather old word, so it seems the original meaning is somewhat lost when taken into pieces.

Bun-kai:
Bun
分: Divide, part, break, to make shares of.
Kai
解: Solve, untie, undo, understand.

This word is still kindai, or modern. It is commonly used in scholastics such as science and mathematics.

Just a note: Adding the する　"suru" verb conjugates these words into an informal and sometimes rude present tense form- this should be spoken "shimasu" to seniors or in circumstances that need to be polite. It's best to forget the conjugation of "suru" for now and save you a lot of headaches in the future... :)

Think that is confusing- lets take the conversation, translated from Japanese and into English:
Rude version:
You:
Sensei, may we analyze the kata?
Sensei:
Silence...(entire class looks at you, jaws gaping and pie-eyed)

Polite way:
You:
Sensei, may we analyze the kata?
Sensei:
Yes, you may (look of pleasure and satisfaction gleaming on face).

Can you spot the difference? No? Why? We simply do not have this type of verb conjugation in English. It makes no sense to us, as the way we say things usually denotes manners- not the way we conjugate verbs.

[Mekugi]

Interesting, seems it depends on the interpreter due to it's ambiguity.

I agree the literal meaning from kanji indicates what you are saying is true, when it's used in a sentance however, they seem to take the opposite meaning to each other. Is this from a long-time misinterpretation? or are the words ambiguous? all I know is my Japanese sensei who didn't speak much English at the time used the word 'bunkai' to mean actual application. 'bunkai ikimasho ka' = 'lets do bunkai'. Then we proceeded to do applications without talking or analyzing. and I never heard him use 'oyo'.

Fair enough. Let's analyze the kata makes sense. Let's apply the kata makes sense too; Let's analyze and apply the kata works as well. Asobo is interesting, but I can see how it works and it sounds like a bit of fun instead of dreary scholastic speaking.
As long as you know what your senior/teacher/partner is saying, and the context is understood, then it makes no difference really. Pedantics can get in the way in some cases, so mutual understanding is preferable IMHO.
Wait until you hear/read the term "kuzushi" used instead of bunkai or oyo. :p