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kirgan
9th July 2006, 20:13
Gassho,

All of you were very helpful helping me understand what had happened to my wrist after a Juho technique was applied to it. Everyone also helped me understand how long it would take to heal - BTW, it took about 3 months to heal. At least after about 3 months, I no longer felt pain by just stretching my wrist out and doing pushups on my wrists. I could even have Juho applied to it again. And now - I guess it is fully healed, although sometimes I still think it hurts a little more than my right wrist, but that may just be a mental thing, since I still think about the previous injury everytime Juho is applied to my left wrist.

Anyway, back to the point of this post. Three - four months ago in class, we were asked to experience what other styles can do, so we can be more prepared to defend against those types of tactics. So, a student in the class who was previously a Judo student tried to do Judo techniques on us. In a real situation, I would probably try to stop him from grabbing me and then quickly counter with a punch or kick. But since we didn't have protection on, I didn't do tha. I let him grab me and I just tried to lower my weight - push my hand against his hip when he tried to turn into me to throw me. In the end, I was not able to stop him and I was thrown over onto my back.

After it happened, it felt like the wind was knocked out of me, but nothing more. We continued class. Later that day, I noticed a sharp pain everytime I breathed and it hurt a lot (in my back, right side) when I breathed in deep. I couldn't lay down that night to sleep on my back either. I ended up staying on the couch and sleeping sitting up, but slightly leaning back. It took 2-3 days, before the pain went away to where I could lay on my back.

It took several weeks for the pain to stop being so sharp when I breathed in deep. Now - several months later, I still have pain within my back when I breath in deep.

What do you think I did - buirse a lung, cracked a rib, ....?

I didn't go to the Doctor, since I figure it was like last time - it just needed time to heal. Now I am thinking about going, since the pain is still there on deep breaths after all this time. Of course, it is no longer a sharp pain to where it really bothers me, but I do feel it.

Kesshu,


--Mike

judepeel
9th July 2006, 21:25
I had a broken rib several years ago, I'm afriad I had pain for upto 12 months because I had also some torn cartilage as well. I was on pain medication for almost 6 months. I also got hiccups a lot. It took a couple of years for the pain to go completely and I still occasionally feel it if I have a cough or I'm very tired (5 years later) There wasn't much that could be done but I'd go to a doctor personally just to be on the safe side as I'm not doctor and even if I was I'm not sure I'd recommend anything on a website.

The guy that did it got really really sick of me whinging at him about it :) does mean I'm a bit of a fan of training with dos though. That's another debate though.

cheunglo
10th July 2006, 08:29
... Anyway, back to the point of this post. Three - four months ago in class, we were asked to experience what other styles can do, so we can be more prepared to defend against those types of tactics. So, a student in the class who was previously a Judo student tried to do Judo techniques on us. In a real situation, I would probably try to stop him from grabbing me and then quickly counter with a punch or kick. But since we didn't have protection on, I didn't do tha. I let him grab me and I just tried to lower my weight - push my hand against his hip when he tried to turn into me to throw me. In the end, I was not able to stop him and I was thrown over onto my back...
Gassho Mike
Who asked you to do this? I did Judo before Shorinji Kempo and there is good reason why Judo is performed on mats. If you were thrown onto your back onto a hard floor, well... For other kenshi contemplating this: find out what a Judo break-fall is and become proficient at it before agreeing to be thrown (even on a mat).


... After it happened, it felt like the wind was knocked out of me, but nothing more. We continued class. Later that day, I noticed a sharp pain everytime I breathed and it hurt a lot (in my back, right side) when I breathed in deep. I couldn't lay down that night to sleep on my back either. I ended up staying on the couch and sleeping sitting up, but slightly leaning back. It took 2-3 days, before the pain went away to where I could lay on my back.

It took several weeks for the pain to stop being so sharp when I breathed in deep. Now - several months later, I still have pain within my back when I breath in deep.

What do you think I did - buirse a lung, cracked a rib, ....?

I didn't go to the Doctor, since I figure it was like last time - it just needed time to heal. Now I am thinking about going, since the pain is still there on deep breaths after all this time. Of course, it is no longer a sharp pain to where it really bothers me, but I do feel it...
I would advise you to go see a doctor who may refer you for an X-ray - not that they can do anything about it now - so that you will know what damage was done and what things you may have to avoid in the future. You obviously did not puncture a lung but anything from a bruised back to a spinal fracture cannot really be ruled out (don't get alarmed, I'm just pointing out the range of things that could have happened).


... All of you were very helpful helping me understand what had happened to my wrist after a Juho technique was applied to it. Everyone also helped me understand how long it would take to heal - BTW, it took about 3 months to heal. At least after about 3 months, I no longer felt pain by just stretching my wrist out and doing pushups on my wrists. I could even have Juho applied to it again. And now - I guess it is fully healed, although sometimes I still think it hurts a little more than my right wrist, but that may just be a mental thing, since I still think about the previous injury everytime Juho is applied to my left wrist ...
I would not advise you to think of your wrists as healed. They are not - they have merely got better.

Be careful of your wrists, you only have one on each arm. Be even more careful of your back, you only have one. On a more general note, unless your injury is a simple one on muscle, bone or joints, question why you don't want to seek medical advice. If the pain is acute (as opposed to chronic), this is the way the body tells you that something broke. In any event it is always better to know than to spend weeks worrying about it.

kirgan
10th July 2006, 14:47
Gassho Mike
I did Judo before Shorinji Kempo and there is good reason why Judo is performed on mats. If you were thrown onto your back onto a hard floor, well...


I was the first one up & since I had no Judo experience, I didn't really know what to expect or how much force was going to be put into the move. There was a mat, but the mats made for a previous aerobics class - very thin. When I started to flip over the other kenshi's back/hip, I was determined to at least not go down alone. So, I grabbed his leg as I went over - I ended up being thrown onto my back - pulling him with me, which caused him to land right on my chest. I am sure that made the impact a lot worse than it would have normally been. That was pretty stupid. I should have just taken the fall without trying to pull him down with me.




I would advise you to go see a doctor who may refer you for an X-ray - not that they can do anything about it now - so that you will know what damage was done and what things you may have to avoid in the future.

I have a general checkup scheduled in about 2 weeks. I am sure it is one of the things I will bring up.




On a more general note, unless your injury is a simple one on muscle, bone or joints, question why you don't want to seek medical advice. If the pain is acute (as opposed to chronic), this is the way the body tells you that something broke.

Never realy thought about why before. I guess I just don't like going in for things they can't do anything for. For instance, I won't go in for colds or the flu - unless of course it seems to get really bad and lasts too long. About three years ago, I finally went to get a bad cold checked out, since I had it for several weeks and it wasn't getting any better. I was told I had a light case of pneumonia after they viewed my X-Ray. That is something that did require prescription medicine. But most of the time, colds just go away on their own & so do muscle pulls and sprains - so I don't go in for things like that - unless they seem out of the ordinary.

So for this injury, I didn't have it checked, because I didn't think it was serious (as in not really needing anything medical done for it). I just figured it was a bad muscle strain or bruise, which I know can take weeks to heal. I have had muscle strain/pulls on my leg (hamstring) before from playing "American Football" (not soccer) when I was younger. It was bad enough to where I couldn't put any weight on my leg for 2 days and it took a couple of weeks to fully heal. I figured the same was going to be the case with this - just needed a few weeks for the muscle to heal. But, after waiting a couple of months now and it hasn't fully gone away, I am finally starting to suspect it was something else. Live and learn I guess.


--Mike

luar
10th July 2006, 15:05
OK everyone, time for a new rule. "When one has a big owie, one seeks medical attention." Very simple really.

Tripitaka of AA
10th July 2006, 20:04
As a citizen of the wonderful paradise called the United Kingdom (which itself sounds increasingly like Lord of the Rings when I use it), I am fortunate to have access to decent medical support for FREE. I emphasise this part FREE for the benefit of my fellow citizens who may never have experienced the concept of paying for a trip to a doctor. It would be a reason why I might be more like Mike and save the Doctor trips for the problems that seem really serious.

However, a cautionary tale;

A couple of years ago I woke with a sore leg. It hurt around the shin and it throbbed when I put weight on it. I couldn't remember knocking it, it had no bruise and it didn't seem to mind me stretching in any particular direction. I spent half a day trying to remember if I'd stamped on anything lately, but it only seemed to be getting worse. I went to the local Accident and Emergency dept (A&E as we say) and they sent me for an Ultrasound. No, not a pregnancy this time, just a blood clot in my leg (Deep Vein Thrombosis, or DVT). I ended up taking Warfarin for 3 months and required frequent blood tests to monitor the "thickness" of my blood.

Without the prompt hospital visit it had potential for a whole load of serious consequences ...

cheunglo
10th July 2006, 20:53
OK everyone, time for a new rule. "When one has a big owie, one seeks medical attention." Very simple really.
I don't think it is as simple as that. At the very least, I wasn't advocating that rule. What I am advocating is:

1. Proper qualified supervision. By that I mean by someone with no particular ego and who has done that new thing before and knows what pitfalls to avoid. For example, don't play with strangulations or chokes unless someone knows what they are doing.

2. Take care of your partner. Quite a while ago I was doing Juho randori with Sensei Graham Nabbs, someone else who knows about Judo. A situation arose which was perfect for a hip throw. The person who got thrown did not struggle but only held on for support. The person doing the throwing held the throw at the last moment and the other person landed as light as a feather. I deliberately obfuscated who was whom because, 1. who cares? and 2. who cares? We both learnt something so we both won.

3. Be wary of acute pain you don't fully understand. When I used the term "simple injury" before, I did not mean something minor. A badly strained wrist is extremely painful but if you know what happened then there is (usually) no cause for alarm. I mean when there is a good chance for additional serious injuries that could be excerbated if undetected.

No set of rules can prevent accidents. I once knocked Sensei Jee's son, Jonathon, unconscious whilst Sensei Jee was standing 6 feet away! On another occasion, I was on the receiving end of a dislocated toe. If nothing else, Shorinji Kempo shows just how vulnerable a human body is. That includes us all from the weakest to the strongest.

jailess
11th July 2006, 12:38
Kirgan,

In future note that pain when breathing is a bad thing, and worthy of a trip to the doctor.

On the other hand, I agree with you and hardly ever go to the Doc. Most soft tissue (i.e. not Bone) injuries can be managed with RICE (Rest, Ice, Compress and Elevate), analgesics (Pacacetamol [Tylenol], Ibuprofen, etc.) and going easy on it in training.

Sounds like you were thrown onto a Pussy mat, though. Is there any way your club can get soem Judo/Aikido mats? much more fun!