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jdostie
20th July 2006, 00:19
I am looking at studying Daito Ryu Jujutsu in Modesto under Shihan Myers. He posts the lineage as:

Dai Sensei Sokaku Takeda (1860-1943)

Dai Sensei Takuo Tanaka (1885-1969)

Dai Sensei Karoku Yamamoto (1934-Present)

Sensei Yamamoto was his teacher.

Being a total newbie to martial arts, I am curious if there is something I should be doing to verify his qualifications; he certainly seems to know what he's doing . . .

Do you have any advice?

Nathan Scott
21st July 2006, 01:39
Hello J. Dostie,

It's helpful if you can post the webpage here for the rest of us to look at. I've never heard of "Shihan Myers" or his teachers. The webpage can be found here:

http://www.modestodaitokai.com/welcome.html

Although they list Kondo Sensei's Shimbukan dojo as the "honbu dojo", they don't seem to be affiliated with his group. There is no "Tanaka Takuo" listed in the compiled version of Takeda Sokaku's eimeiroku (enrollment book), which means there is a very good chance either the name is fabricated or this "Tanaka" wasn't a student of Takeda Sokaku as claimed. I also can't find anything on the net about "Dai-Sensei" Tanaka or Yamamoto.

I would ask Mr. Myers where he studied with Yamamoto, and what affiliation their group is with. Mr. Myers should have rank certificates, pictures with his teacher, letters, or some kind of evidence that will offer more information about his training background. I mention all this because there is a massive amount of people ripping off the Daito-ryu name to make money, and very few of them actually were taught by legitimate teachers. It is worth your time to find out more about the background of someone you plan to study with, especially if they are claiming to teach aikijujutsu or Daito-ryu.

Let us know what you find out...

jdostie
2nd October 2006, 03:56
Our sensei suggested that if we wanted to kick well, "and he knows we do," we should kick. Then he went on to talk about Makiwara, and breifly talked about heavy bags and portable heavy bags, but in the end, he recommended Makiwara.

My wife isn't too keen on me having some boards sticking up out of the ground; although if I could set something up on a pad of concrete we have to one side I guess she'd be OK with that - but then she hasn't seen what it would look like (besides which I don't know how I'd secure it). Also, sensei made it sound like there would be two kinds, one for punching (a 2x6 or something), and then something round (I get the idea it would be much larger around) because we'd be using that for kicks including Yoko Geri.

What do you use for this? Aside from the cost and weight considerations, is there other benifit of Makiwara over a bag? And while I'm asking about it, what about the smaller double ended bags - assuming you can adjust the height?

TonyU
2nd October 2006, 05:06
I use both. They each have their benefit and work things differently.
If practiced properly, they both supplement each other.

Nathan Scott
2nd October 2006, 08:09
Hello,

This is an interesting question, because the kind of striking you are talking about is not characteristic of any of the legitimate Daito-ryu branches. Seiken (flat knuckle punches) and side/round kicks are part of kick/punch arts like karate, tae kwon do, kung fu, etc., as are the old style makiwara you are thinking about planting in your yard. As such, you probably won't get much useful feedback on makiwara here.

Maybe try posting this one to a karate forum?

Have fun,

jdostie
2nd October 2006, 14:26
Hello,

This is an interesting question, because the kind of striking you are talking about is not characteristic of any of the legitimate Daito-ryu branches. Seiken (flat knuckle punches) and side/round kicks are part of kick/punch arts like karate, tae kwon do, kung fu, etc., as are the old style makiwara you are thinking about planting in your yard. As such, you probably won't get much useful feedback on makiwara here.

Maybe try posting this one to a karate forum?

Have fun,

That is interesting. Hmm. Let me describe as best I can (for other reasons) the punches and kicks. Punches he instructs vertical hand positioning, not like I have seen in Karate - but then I haven't seen much, kicks are all low, but do occur. The side kick is more like a turn to the side and step into the shin, the yoki giri is kind of a kick to the ribs, but on the side so it's not straight forward. The forward kick is, well a forward kick, which I think lands the ball of the foot around the abdomen.

Are there no punches and kicks, the notion of makiwara, or the type that's troubling?

Ames
2nd October 2006, 18:38
I am very new to Aikijujutsu, so I could be wrong but, no, I don't think that sidekicks are used. Makiwara is for sure not used traditionally, as they originated in Okinawa and are used in Karate.

The strikes in Aikijujutsu serve two purposes. The main one is balance breaking, and the other is to further damage an opponant.

It sounds like you *might* be practicing Hapkido, but your instructor is calling in DR Aikijujutsu. This is not right, and I would talk to your teacher about where he learned what he knows, and who he learned it from.

Nathan Scott
2nd October 2006, 19:15
Hello,

Adding on to what Mr. Ames said...

For the most part, Daito-ryu seems to use the same types of strikes found in koryu jujutsu (and aikido for that matter). Vertical flat-knuckle punches (thumb facing up) are more typical of Chinese kick/punch arts. Low kicks are sometimes used in jujutsu, especially for finishing strikes once the opponent is on the ground, but high kicks and side kicks of any type are not even "Japanese", let alone Daito-ryu (nor are makiwara).

To put is simply, the strikes used in Japanese jujutsu / aikido are for use against soft/anatomically weak targets, which means different hand/foot shapes are used, and makiwara conditioning is not necessary. What you are describing are strikes and conditioning methods used for hard targets (ie: bone). The striking logic and technique for soft/weak target attacks in jujutsu and other Japanese arts and the logic and technique used in arts that use hard target attacks are fundamentally different.

With all due respect, what you are learning may be enjoyable, and may even be practical, but it is not traditional Daito-ryu or even Japanese budo. There are apparently many people out there with mixed martial art backgrounds who still believe that Daito-ryu is hard aikido with kicks and punches added.

Regards,

chrismoses
2nd October 2006, 20:12
To his defense, I haven't seen the words "Daito Ryu" anywhere in jdoste's posts so he may be studying a different line of AJ. Also, from the little info we have, I could see the following scenario (which would be perfectly reasonable):
Students: Sensei, we want to kick and punch better!
Sensei: Look if you want to strike better, go hit something. Get a heavy bag or makiwara...
Students: OK!

Anyway, if you're doing AJ, I'd recommend a bag. Good aiki/jujutsu relies on atemi to displace and affect balance, and hitting a heavy bag will train that kind of strike better than a makiwara, which is amost more for bone conditioning so that you can hit harder objects.

Nathan Scott
2nd October 2006, 21:01
All,

I'm going to merge the makiwara/heavy bag thread with this one since they are related, and it will help give more perspective to those replying.

According to the webpage, Mr. Myers appears to be (more or less) following Kondo Sensei's line of Daito-ryu. This would be logical in that Kondo Sensei was probably the first instructor, considered "legitimate", to publicly release videos and technical books with English translations. Kondo Sensei's "Ikkajo 1" video must have come out well over 10 years ago (little help with the original video copyright date?).

There is nothing inherently wrong about incorporating unconventional devices in a dojo (or outside the dojo) when a teacher feels a student may benefit from it. I'm reacting to the types of strikes that are apparently being taught in this dojo under the name of "Daito-ryu", and the fact that fist-conditioning board makiwaras are part of the recommendation.

Regards,

CEB
2nd October 2006, 21:41
FWIW…..

Don’t practice what you do not know how to practice.

Also teachers should not teach what they do not know.

Stick with the heavy bag forget the makiwara. You can injure yourself with the makiwara.

Makiwara designed to be hit with force are designed to offer resistance that increases at an increasing rate. In other words you need to know what you are building.

The Makiwara does more than makes your knuckles harder. You need to make subtle changes in your punch to hit the makiwara this changes your technique you need to have a handle on what is going on. I have to be careful when teaching beginners because as humans we learn so much with our eyes. Because of makiwara training I turn the fist over sooner than I want student to do so. I have try to consciously think about punching mechanics when teaching beginners.

If you just want to make your hands hard do knuckle push ups on concrete or get a couple of bricks or patio blocks to place your hands on when doing push up. Rub your arms against your body when doing these with elbows in the down position.

If you want to hit something besides a heavy bag get a Chinese wall bag. You can fill them with beans or sand or gravel. You can get one this 3 sectional and use all 3 materials. You can hang it in the garage if the wall is sturdy. Make sure you don’t pick wall where you wife has delicate nicks-knacks or pictures or other art work hanging on the other side of the wall. That wouldn’t be good.

Don’t hurt your wrists, elbows or shoulders.

Good luck.

jdostie
3rd October 2006, 06:48
Thanks for your responses. As Mr. Scott and I have exchanged a few PM, he knows I am not taking this personally, or trying to make any claims on behalf of the dojo I am attending. Rather, I am learning as best I can from the only jujutsu dojo in my area, which posts lineage to Daito Ryu's hombu dojo.

So, if I post something that sounds off, he's pointing these out.

Ted Howell
3rd October 2006, 08:34
J. Dostie, are you a student of Mr. Myers? If so, maybe you can help us answer some questions.

I was waiting to see if anyone else was going to research this, but since there has been no real response, I started digging myself. I actually started contact with “shihan” Myers on 07/20/2006. After several attempts to gain ANY information, I have come up quite empty-handed.

First, I want to clearly state Mr. Myers is not affiliated with Kondo Sensei. He does not claim to be affiliated with any legitimate or known association and refuses to answer even general questions regarding his history. During the little email correspondence I had with him, he stated his website provided a link to the Daito-ryu Hombu due to its factual content and denied that it gave him an illusion of legitimacy. I discussed the issue with him and he has since removed the link to Kondo Sensei’s website and replaced it with a link to generic DR history.

To give Mr. Myers a fair shake and the opportunity to support his claims, I asked to speak with him. After a few unanswered emails, he responded and appeared to be quite open to discussing the school’s lineage and the “system” he teaches. Upon receiving correspondence indicating that he would be happy to discuss his claims, I informed him of my affiliation and questioned him about the link to Kondo Sensei’s website. Well, at some point, he attempted to turn the questioning around (a common method of avoidance) and questioned my affiliation with Kondo Sensei. So I informed him that I would provide him with any proof he required, to include the option of contacting Kondo Sensei directly. And then an amazing thing happened----silence!!

When I informed him that all of my research regarding the names Takuo Tanaka and Karoku Yamamoto was unsuccessful, his only answer was that Sokaku Takeda Sensei’s illiteracy may, in fact, be to blame for the missing history. This was the only plausible explanation I received. He even went as far as quoting the words of the mysterious Dai Sensei Yamamoto, “Even monkeys fall from trees.” Yeah, that was what he said, that was his answer.

I have little doubt that Mr. Myers is a fraud and he is inappropriately and unethically using the name Daito-ryu to sell his swill. I just hope he doesn’t fool too many people with his BS!

While reviewing the website, one cannot avoid the thought of a self-aggrandizing want-to-be-mysterious, self-made master. Those planning to review the site should bring along a shovel and pair of hip waiters to dig through the “karate kid-like, enlightened master-speeches” found throughout. It appears that Mr. Myers has taken from aikido and judo; a little of this, some of that and all of a sudden, from out of the woodwork, a new Daito-ryu shihan!!

Issues to note:
1) No history can be found regarding the names Takuo Tanaka and/or Karoku Yamamoto, none.
2) No history can be found regarding Mr. Tony Myers (shihan), none.
3) He refers to the hiden mokuroku, but the stated history does not support any connection that would subject him to its use as a curriculum. His curriculum included kickboxing and “competitive” jujutsu until I started questioning him about it. Then these things mysteriously disappeared from his website.
4) The website stated that the jujutsu taught at his school is sponsored by the National Competitive Jujutsu Association (NCJA); again until I questioned him about it. Maybe it’s just me, but I couldn’t find any reference to this association anywhere. I even went as far as contacting a Gracie BJJ instructor located in Modesto, CA. He told me he never heard of Myers or the NCJA. So whom are his students “competing” against? I guess they don’t compete anymore, since this has been removed from his website.

I provided Mr. Myers with more than ample opportunity to support his claims. Not one question,,, not one,,, was answered. He stated he wished to discuss his claims over the telephone, but NEVER answered or returned my calls. I was polite, respectful and more than willing to provide the man with a chance to speak. But his silence speaks volumes. J. Dostie, if you are a student of Mr. Myers, can you provide some answers here? If you, a student, can not get answers, I advise you to visit the BJJ instructor in your area!

Ted Howell

chrismoses
3rd October 2006, 18:02
To his defense, I haven't seen the words "Daito Ryu" anywhere in jdoste's posts so he may be studying a different line of AJ.

Thanks Nathan, I hadn't seen the other thread. That puts things in a different light.

I still recommend a heavy bag. :cool:

Ames
3rd October 2006, 18:06
Just echoing Mr.Howell's suggestion here, but I agree, I would leave this dojo fast! The training you are receiving is likely to do more harm than good. Go and try the BJJ.

jdostie
3rd October 2006, 19:33
As a studend of about 2 1/2 months, I am not in a good position to answer these questions well. I had already become a student of his before I really came to understand anything about the questions raised here. I had some notion that there were some questions, but having attended a few sessions I concluded that I could learn something from him - I wasn't particularly concerned with affiliations as to be able to learn jujutsu in a Japanese context (is that the right way to say it, maintaining the culture - budo/bushido).

Anyway, he gave some basic description of what happened with the lineage, and I decided to stick with it to see where it leads. A little more information comes out during the classes, and I am piecing it together as best I can. Meanwhile I am enjoying the classes, and the techniques we are learning look similar to (though I have not seen the exact techniques) videos I have seen of Kondo Sensei - and a few other DR practioners on youtube (the only videos I've seen). The kicking and punching we are doing within a technique is as described - to off-balance the opponent, or as a final move, and I think to soft tissue - although the technique as Mr. Scott points out is in question - I don't know if that's due to my understanding or an actual problem with the system. That's something someone more experineced can determine. So far, by the way, the "side kick" has only been used by the Uke, so it's something we are learning to defend against, but I don't know if that makes any difference to what's been previously stated.

Now, on to the lineage: As I understand it, when Kondo Sensei took over, Dai Sensei Yamamoto "broke ties" with the hombu dojo (sp?). This meant that they are no longer affiliated with the dojo . . . I am not sure all that would entail, but that's it in essence. Sensei Myers says he references the dojo because that's where it came from, not to say that he is affiliated with it (paraphrased as best as I can remember). And he uses the name daito-ryu because that's the system he teaches, he's not going to call it "Tony's Jujutsu" or whatever ryu/ha (I don't understand the difference anyway).

I say this not as an apologist for the Modesto Jujutsu Acadamy, or to defend the claims. I don't think that's my place, nor would I be qualified one way or the other. Just to answer as best what I have received from our Sensei.

My rational behind continuing was simply if it was simply Myer'sha or watever, and I believed that he had something I could learn that I thought was valuable, I would never have gotten into the question of Daito-Ryu, and I felt that since there is no other Daito-Ryu school around . . . it seemed the best way to go.

Regarding BJJ, is that a full system, or mostly focused on grappling techniques? And, of course, the Japanese budo/bushido culture will be lost as well right?

chrismoses
3rd October 2006, 19:59
Now, on to the lineage: As I understand it, when Kondo Sensei took over, Dai Sensei Yamamoto "broke ties" with the hombu dojo (sp?). [snip]

Regarding BJJ, is that a full system, or mostly focused on grappling techniques? And, of course, the Japanese budo/bushido culture will be lost as well right?

As I see it, if you're using terms like "Dai Sensei" you're not connected to Japanese budo culture anyway. I've never heard of a legitimate line of anything using that term, but it pops up a lot with folks outside of Japan trying to sound important.

Chris Li
3rd October 2006, 20:39
As I see it, if you're using terms like "Dai Sensei" you're not connected to Japanese budo culture anyway. I've never heard of a legitimate line of anything using that term, but it pops up a lot with folks outside of Japan trying to sound important.

Sokaku Takeda used "Dai Sensei", that's how his name is signed on Morihei Ueshiba's kyoju dairi certificate (see http://www.daito-ryu.org/tota3.html ).

I'll agree, though, that it's not all that common.

Best,

Chris

chrismoses
3rd October 2006, 20:44
Sokaku Takeda used "Dai Sensei", that's how his name is signed on Morihei Ueshiba's kyoju dairi certificate (see http://www.daito-ryu.org/tota3.html).

I'll agree, though, that it's not all that common.

Best,

Chris

Fair 'nuf. I'm always open to correction. It still makes my spider senses tingle.

Ted Howell
3rd October 2006, 22:36
Mr. Dostie,

“Now, on to the lineage: As I understand it, when Kondo Sensei took over, Dai Sensei Yamamoto "broke ties" with the hombu dojo”
Lineage listed by Mr. Myers:
Dai Sensei Sokaku Takeda (1860-1943)
Dai Sensei Takuo Tanaka (1885-1969)
Dai Sensei Karoku Yamamoto (1934-Present)
Unfortunately, that doesn’t make too much sense. If the lineage listed is correct, it wouldn’t even include Tokimune Sensei / Daito-ryu Hombu. Takuo Tanaka is listed as Dai Sensei, as is Karoku Yamamoto. That would indicate a lineage connected directly to Sokaku Takeda Sensei, not connected to Tokimune Takeda. If I were you, I would ask Mr. Myers to clarify this statement. It appears he is digging an even deeper hole.

Was Karoku Yamamoto a student of Tokimune Sensei or Tanaka Sensei? Tanaka Sensei would have been approximately 30 years old at the time of Tokimune Sensei’s birth. Tanaka Sensei would have been approximately 50 years old at the time of Karoku Yamamoto’s birth. So where is the connection? It isn’t making sense. Mr. Dostie, please don't be afraid to ask your teacher questions. It is not disrespectful to ask about history. If he is reluctant to answer you directly or is unclear in his answers, either he doesn't know or he has something to hide.

Ted Howell

DDATFUS
4th October 2006, 00:13
And, of course, the Japanese budo/bushido culture will be lost as well right?

As others have pointed out, it is starting to sound like your style has no authentic ties to budo. Take it from someone who's been part of such a style; fake budo is worse than no budo at all. If a teacher is fabricating a false lineage, misrepresenting his training, etc., no matter how good his fighting techniques are, what he is doing violates the principles of budo that he might claim to endorse. I had an instructor once who pretended to teach legitimate budo. He had no authentic training, and made up his budo philosophy as he went along. Now I know that what he taught in no way resembled the actual principles of budo, either classical or modern.

BJJ might not have a strong cultural tie to budo, but at least Brazilian jujutsu is honest about what it is and where it comes from.

Ted Howell
10th October 2006, 16:54
Hello all,

I recently had some additional contact with a student of Mr. Myers. Apparently, Mr. Myers is using the old Frank Dux story. The student wrote the following quote:

”…his teacher taught him and a group of other boys as children so his own son would have training partners of his own size/age…”

It just amazes me that people still fall prey to this type of fantasy story. Even after being presented with the facts, some people are still willing to call people like Myers, sensei.

I spoke to Kondo Sensei regarding the names Mr. Myers offers as his connection to Daito-ryu. I am sure it comes as no surprise that he confirms the names Myers listed to be fraudulent.

“As I understand it, when Kondo Sensei took over, Dai Sensei Yamamoto "broke ties" with the hombu dojo”

The name, Karoku Yamamoto, has no connection and never had a connection to the Daito-ryu Hombu as claimed by Myers. It appears Mr. Myers has some explaining to do; the hole that he dug for himself has become quite deep indeed. I invited Mr. Myers to this thread via email, but I highly doubt he will respond. What on earth would / could he say?

Ted Howell

Nathan Scott
16th October 2006, 01:09
Hi Ted,

Thanks for checking on that.

kfrance
23rd November 2008, 07:48
I was a student there for a little over a year. If any of these thread participants are still curious, I'd be happy to give my impressions.

Kevin France

Neil Yamamoto
23rd November 2008, 18:38
Went to take another look, Mr. Myers is reworking his website, and is now calling what he teaches, "Tenshin Shoden Satori Itto Ryu Aiki Jujutsu".

The site has a gearing towards kids, now I have to go bleach my eyes from reading the thing.

wagnerphysed
25th November 2008, 02:36
I've heard of Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto ryu...

and I know of the connection between Kashima Shinden Jiki Shin Kage ryu and Itto ryu to Daito-ryu Aikijuijutsu...

but...

Tenshin Shoden Itto ryu is a new one???

I've never heard of this...

Is that affiliated with some shrine or temple? Or is it a little known extant art that originated in a small undisclosed asian village that America invaded in the 40's, 50's or 60's?

I'm going to have to say I'm really skeptical of the possibility that this is legitimate:eek:

Anyway, how bout them Raven's!!!

Nathan Scott
25th November 2008, 17:53
"Tenshin Shoden Satori Itto Ryu Aiki Jujutsu"?!? Ha ha ha!!!

I hope this is an intentional attempt to make light of those of us that take martial arts seriously. Because if was intended on any level to be a serious name, I've got a "Bad Budo Soden" collection with his name on it!

Wow wow wow...

dengle
25th November 2008, 22:06
I've heard of Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto ryu...

Thanks for correcting him. We'll have to see if he corrects the web site.

kfrance
24th December 2008, 03:36
Hello. As I mentioned, I was a student of Tony Myers for a little over a year back in the early 1990s. A couple of friends and I enrolled at the same time. His school was fairly new in the area. If I remember right, he'd been teaching childrens' karate at a local community center type of place (like the YMCA--maybe it even WAS the YMCA) and had recently decided to open a school himself. I'm pretty sure this is where the makiwara stuff comes from--for a while, he'd been practicing Goju Ryu karate, and much of what he taught us was mixed with this.

Early on, I asked him about his history. I was told that his teacher had worked at the nearby air force base (Castle AFB in Atwater) when Myers was a kid. He was taught in a small group for a few years, and then his teacher moved back to Japan. At the time he left, he promoted Myers to shodan. At the time my friends and I enrolled, he said he was a sandan. This seemed reasonable enough to me--this was the first martial art I had anything to do with, but at the time I was reading everything I could get my hands on through the internet. A guy in his early 30s who'd been training since he was a kid, a sandan? Yeah, that sounded about right. I didn't give it a lot more thought.

But as time went on, there were more and more things that just didn't seem right. For one thing, the promotion system was very screwed up. Promotion exams were held every three months, but it was basically a sign of failure if you only went up one belt rank (kyu grade). It was more common to skip one or more. The promotions were mainly based on learning a set of techniques, basically using a technique in response to a set attack. There was no rhyme or reason to the organization of these sets of techniques that I could detect. Near the end of my time there, one of the friends I had signed up with had become the lead student. He'd influenced the way Myers ran the class quite a bit, and talked him into doing a complete re-organization. We went from 10 kyu ranks to six, and from a rainbow of belt colors to white, green, and brown. I believe they were in the middle of writing up a whole new syllabus that was based around sets of a single technique used in a variety of situations (much as the way most aikido schools go, I believe) when my friend got more and more disillusioned with the whole thing and called it quits. By the end, Myers had announced that he'd been in touch with his teacher and was promoted to godan (before the age of 35, with no testing or going to 4th dan or anything), and a few months later was asking my friend about where he could find someone to write up promotion certificates saying he was 6th dan.

By that time, my friend and I had starting doing judo at the local university's club (it's both a PE class and a club open to the community), and I never looked back. I got my shodan in 1998 through the USJF. Roy Yasui was the judo teacher there at that time. Since then, he's retired and turned the club's leadership over to the very capable hands of James Tinley. Until a couple of years ago I was helping with the class, but my job makes it impossible for me to go any more, so I'm on a bit of a martial arts hiatus right now. :-(

Impressions I have of Tony Myers... well, I very much got the impression that he wanted to be viewed by all of us much as he must have viewed his own teacher: The wise old infallible master who had all the answers. Unfortunately, Tony was only about 10 years older than all of us, so he just wasn't going to get that sort of image. Also, instead of inspiring confidence, it made us more and more leery when he never said "I don't know" or "wow, I've never seen that before," or whatever. Instead of looking like a wise old master, he looked like someone who WANTED to look like a wise old master...

On the other hand, though, I'll give him this much: I do think he knows something about what he's teaching. I have no idea how much truth there is to his story about his teacher, and I have my own doubts about the existance of these Tanaka and Yamamoto teachers, but someone taught Tony something at some point. Even given the state of my inexperience, I could still tell there was something there in the techniques he was teaching. I don't think Tony is a bad guy, I think he's just gotten himself in over his head by exaggerating a history he didn't realize it'd be so easy to check up on, and is a little overly concerned with appearance rather than substance. I don't mean to make excuses for lying or misrepresenting his credentials...I just mean that I think he's made (and compounded) mistakes, not set out with a goal of defrauding people. And I'll always owe him a little something. Without having gone to his dojo, I probably never would have become involved in judo, which is something that has changed my life and gotten me through some hard times.

And, as always, I could very well be mistaken. Keep in mind that this is me remembering things from a good 15 years ago, and remembering things about a topic that I'm far from an expert on. Believe me, there are far worse teachers in the martial arts community than Tony Myers. But if someone came to me and asked for a recommendation, I'd steer them towards a few other places first. There are at least two BJJ places in town, our judo club, and there's even a Danzan Ryu place nearby.

kfrance
24th December 2008, 19:07
As a follow up...

Would I call what Tony taught back then (I haven't seen him or his school since) "budo"? Or "traditional"? Well, probably not. Not if the definitions of those words include an unbroken lineage with a specific, documented ryu founder, taught by a succession of teachers who are/were licensed to teach it. Even if his teacher was a for-real, honest-to-God Daito Ryu instructor, I doubt very much that he gave Tony license to teach and call what he teaches "Daito Ryu"--I mean, just taking what Tony gives as his background at face value, he was just a kid with a shodan at the time he stopped practicing with his teacher.

There's also way too many little inconsistancies for me to get the impression that he's really steeped in budo culture. I think he WANTS to be, and I think he wants to give the impression that he has been, but unfortunately these little inconsistancies are quite glaring when someone who really does know something about the subject runs into him. For example, this "shihan" stuff. You don't call yourself "shihan." That's just the height of arrogance in Japanese culture. You don't even refer to yourself as "sensei." I can give some slack on that because we're in the west, and the students need to learn what word to use to refer to the class teacher. Or one of the things that used to grate on my nerves...he used to refer to you as "mina" (pronounced "mee-nah"). As in, "Mina, how was your weekend?" He said once that it means "student." Well, it really means "everybody" or "all of you."

My judo teacher was kind of the opposite of this. He's ethnically Japanese, but born and raised in Canada. He speaks Japanese, but I've never heard him do so. When he ran class, he sounded more like a stereotypical gruff old football coach than a Mr. Miyagi sort of mystical martial arts master. It was genuine...he wasn't putting on any airs.