best off balancing techniques

[Ryu]

Hello everyone,
I was curious if anyone has any off balancing techniques that seem to work well for them most of the time. Any certain situations that present themselves a lot in randori when it comes to setting up a throw?
I personally feel more comfortable with throws where I can grab uke's whole body with my arms (as similar to greco-roman as you can get) such as ura nage, ushiro goshi, etc.
So I can sometimes catch a guy trying to step in. Or I initiate it with a clinch (though that is more BJJ then judo)
Anyone have any comments? :)

Thanks
Ryu

[Chuck Clark]

Bill,

I don't mean for this to sound flip, but it seems to me that this sort of media is really hard to get you an answer to your question. The only way I know of to get what you seem to want is find a teacher who really understands and can do kuzushi and learn from them.

Sincerely,

[MarkF]

Hi, Bill,
Chuck is right, but experimenting with it with different uke is good practice. Initiating your partner to give you a hint at which way to break balance is the manner in which I learned, at least, early on. It then became habit, but I then found out habits are as hard to break. This requires a lot of room to move around.

For the more subtle hints involving tai sabaki, or posturing, can be done in uchi komi exercises. With some resistance on the part of both parties, you begin to feel it.

A teacher who knows is really the way, but in your situation, when a partner is available, as in gripping, and feeling and waiting for a flinch, or other signs which tell you to which direction kuzushi is apparent. When practicing counters, or "switching up" from one nage to another with a fully resisting uke is great practice. I've found that practicing the kuzushi of one throw, then using the resistence of that to switch to another nage, gives off subtle hints in which direction of breaking balance, or allowing your partner to make the decision for you, by reacting to the first attempt. Transition practice also helps every area of kuzushi, ground work, etc. Sometimes, kuzushi can lead you right into katami waza, even while standing.

Are you still beating up on your sister, O-bushi?:nin:

Mark





[Edited by MarkF on 12-13-2000 at 01:02 AM]

[Ryu]

Actually she beats up on me :D LOL

Don't worry though, I roll with big boys as much as I can, and spend long hour suplexing wrestling dummies ;) So my "sword" is still somewhat sharp.

Thanks much for the details, Mark! At Mousel's we usually post technique and such questions all the time, and people reply heavily. It's almost a form of "small talk" there, so I hope I wasn't asking anything trivial at all.

I have to wait until my future trip back to Japan to get heavily involved in judo again. I spent a year at Carlos Machado's BJJ school in Dallas, and have trained on and off with many BJJ practioners, so my judo nagewaza is poor. Newaza is sound, but I can't get there if I keep getting "Ipponed" in a match so... Have to keep working. :)
Right now it's just a lot of weights, 500 push ups (like a certain idol of mine :) ) and lots of dummy work, and live opponent randori when I can.
I feel a little like the "odd man out" here though since this is more strict budo styles, and I'm more of a MMA or NHB enthusiast a little. :(
So hopefully no one will hold it against me?

......guys? :)
....hello?


LOL (JK)

Thanks again for the great details, I appreciate it Mark.

Ryu

[MarkF]

Hey, Bill,
Judoka come in all colors and most have a specialty. Your question is just a bit too hard to answer as Chuck said. Putting things on a BB at a dojo is a great idea. I put them on paper and give them to students, hoping they will come up with something better, and they do, sometimes.

If I see someone who has naturally changed the angel of kuzushi a bit, and it is working with little force, I ask them to explain it, and there is new material for a while.

I know your background, and if I have trouble with newaza I know where to go. As far as whatever stirs your drink, I have no problems with which way someone's interest takes them.

My only comment is to be careful in how much muscle you add to your physique. I've seen guys who look like Arnold on a good day, and they have problems with speed, and agility. Strength isn't a probem, it is what you do with it. Kano maintained that strength was fine, but that it must be minimal, using it in your shoulders and legs and only when needed. That is what I've always stressed, but then Kano is God, at least from my perspecitve. Dizzy Gillespie and Miles Davis are the others.:)

Mark

[kusanku]

Small circles, between the thumb and forefnger, starting away from the direction you wnat them to go and ending up going that way, move the gi and the man will follow, especially when they don't feel it until it's too late.

OK?:-)

regards

[efb8th]

Hi, Guys.

First, learn to throw to the eight points of the compass, so no matter which direction uke moves, he is always generating kuzushi. Then remember the dictum, "Little fingers, little toes." as a key to Judo. When you have all directions available to you as kuzushi, your expended energy is reduced to nearly zero. This state makes you an immovable rock when uke tries to counter, because he has no leverage, owing to his constant floating. By the same token, uke is always vulnerable to a throw because his energy is continually the weapon being turned against him.

As Musashi would say, "This must be studied carefully."

Regards,

Ed

PS: Always be Tori

[TIM BURTON]

It is very difficult to explain Kuzushi in a written form, Kuzushi must be felt both as the instigator and the receiver to appreciate the reaction being sort. If you are having trouble unbalancing your partner then I was always taught that the most simple balance breaks were forwards and backwards as these gave the least reaction time to an opponent and require less force to be exerted in order to achieve a desired result. One should also pay attention to their grips as these should change in accordance with your opponent’s position and the arms must be relaxed in order that we can feel our partners movements. I was also taught that the arms should be regarded as chains linking us to our partner but possessing no strength of their own. It is the movement of our body and the way we move our feet and hips that results in the untelegraphed pull or push that takes our partner past the limit of their intended motion.
You mention that you like to hold the body rather than the Gi. Again the basic arm position for Harai Goshi as taught in the Randori No Kata may be the big throw you are looking for. As this has tori inserting their arm between uke’s arm and body to place the hand on the shoulder in order that tori’s body movement exerts the power to effect kuzushi.
It may help to contemplate that Kuzushi is not just physical but should affect the mental process as well, so sweeps that are generated at the edge of a partners vision may surprise them.
Finally and apart for your question Kuzushi can be utiised in the street with what is termed “kill with a question”, before you deliver a blow in a tight situation where the other party is expecting a fight, ask them a question, like, what’s your mothers maiden name? Or where did you buy your shirt? Even if they don’t want to their brain will begin to start to search for the answer, this will give you the milliseconds you need to deliver the strike.
Tim BURTON Taiho Jutsu UK

[kusanku]

Ed Burgess:-) Tim Burton's name was right above the post) says:A great many important things, and ends with:
'Always be Tori."

Yes indeed.:D

Regards,
Kusanku

[Edited by kusanku on 12-30-2000 at 03:45 PM]

[MarkF]

Hey John,
The name is Burgess, but Ed has so much aiki that this bit of kuzushi has all ready passed, and "kake" has been achieved, and you are on the first floor instead of the second.:D

In case no one has said so, Tim, Welcome to the E-budo Forums.:wave:

One could break down those eight directions even furthur, but who is counting?

Of the gokyo no waza of throwing, my favorite would be "throw'em were you are." This may have a touch of the esoteric or mystical to it, but in human terms, it would mean "step back." If accomplished, uke lands just where the throw was begun.

I'll go one further than you, Tim, and say that it is impossible to explain in written form, and for that reason, many answers come. Atemi to the brachial nerve goes a long way when unbalancing, but we are speaking of randori.

When I was young, I was taught to place my extreme tunnel vision on one spot on your uke, and then use peripheral vision to search for that "feeling" of the direction uke wishes to go. Today, I just call it centering. Being softer than soft, too, is sage advice.

Harai goshi is one of my favorite nage, but as someone said here a while ago, it is easily blocked with a now-practiced move, of which I can't remember. It was, though, one of Antonius J. Geesink, and he was fair.;)

Mark

BTW: Tim, a nice discussion of judo and aikido history in the aikido forum. If you'd like to start one here, be my guest.

[efb8th]

Hi, Everybody.

And thanks, Mark. The longer I stay away and work, the taller, thinner and younger I get. Another week and I would have been so good-lookin' and athletic I wouldn't have recognized myself! Interesting that Harai Goshi was my tokui waza in nage, too. I liked the arm around the neck version (Harai Kubi Nage) because I could take it to the points of the compass right-handed, and where the head goes, the body follows (or ceases to be a problem).

Happy New Year,
See You Next!