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View Full Version : Ushiro Ukemi - it hurts my head



jdostie
12th August 2006, 00:38
Everything I see on the internet shows a kind of rolling onto the back. I try that, and slap my arms at the mat, trying to hit either minutely before my back hits, or as my back hits. However, I find that when I hit, I feel a percussion in my head - I also feel this when falling on the side (whatever that one is called).

When I watch the senior student doing Ushiro Ukemi, he verily throws himself up in the air, and lands nearly flat on his back (it's probably slightly curved, but you get the meaning that there is no easing into this), and he slaps the mat slightly before his back makes contact.

Now the senior student is in his early twenties at most, while I am 44, but I have to think that the percussion in the head would be horrific for me.

Can you give any advise on the "proper method?"

yoj
12th August 2006, 00:51
ukemi is about physics, an arm moving quickly=the enregy of a body moving slowly, er hopefully!

Your neck muscles arent strong enoungh to control the whiplash, also, you ar probably hitting too rigid, relax, and stare at your naval to keep your head up. Pick a piece of grass and practise, hit curved, and breakfall with your feet too, it's a whole body thing, you arent doing that so it's sending a whip effect up your body to your head. My ukemi sucks for some things, but on a lot of throws i can take it with a relaxed body and my feet alone.

crouch and roll, stare at your naval, head tucked in, then up the speed. When it starts getting too much shave some speed off with a slap, keep it uder 45 degrees with respect to your torso, dont 'reach' or you'll screw your shoulder.

HTH

Jim "Falling badly since 1989" ;-)

jdostie
12th August 2006, 02:26
ukemi is about physics, an arm moving quickly=the enregy of a body moving slowly, er hopefully!

Your neck muscles arent strong enoungh to control the whiplash, also, you ar probably hitting too rigid, relax, and stare at your naval to keep your head up. Pick a piece of grass and practise, hit curved, and breakfall with your feet too, it's a whole body thing, you arent doing that so it's sending a whip effect up your body to your head. My ukemi sucks for some things, but on a lot of throws i can take it with a relaxed body and my feet alone.

crouch and roll, stare at your naval, head tucked in, then up the speed. When it starts getting too much shave some speed off with a slap, keep it uder 45 degrees with respect to your torso, dont 'reach' or you'll screw your shoulder.

HTH

Jim "Falling badly since 1989" ;-)

Can you elaborate about pick a piece of grass and practice? Are you using suggesting that I use that as a starting position? Maybe also kind of a visualization - as I prep, pretend I am picking a piece of grass, and just fall backward?

I am wondering about the thoughts on the sempai, who lands so hard. He told us to start from crouching, but that we would progress. Sensei is not present during Ukemi. We try to have that done before he comes in, so he is the model for us in this.

Thanks

cgamel
12th August 2006, 02:55
By pick a piece of grass, I think he means find a spot in your yard and practice. Ukemi takes time, but your sempai should help you get the finer points down. As was already stated, keeping your head from hitting the mat is best accomplished by looking at your navel (or the knot on your belt) as you fall.

jdostie
12th August 2006, 06:28
I tried the technique, kind of squatted and rolled back tonight, and that worked just fine. I watched again tonight, and he actually jumps up and lands nearly flat on his back. Is this just youthful vigor, or is there something in the technique that I can't see that in a few years I should be able to do the same thing?

Thanks for your thoughts, no shaken head syndrome tonight :) .

giles
12th August 2006, 17:26
I try that, and slap my arms at the mat, trying to hit either minutely before my back hits, or as my back hits.
Difficult without actually seeing what you're doing, but try slapping with just one arm, trying to land just off centre by looking towards the mat on the side you're slapping. If you're coming down square on to your spine there's not a lot of give!

And get hold of a copy of Ellis Amdur's "Ukemi" video (http://www.ellisamdur.com/buy.html#ukemi)

cgamel
12th August 2006, 23:25
I tried the technique, kind of squatted and rolled back tonight, and that worked just fine. I watched again tonight, and he actually jumps up and lands nearly flat on his back.

Thanks for your thoughts, no shaken head syndrome tonight :) .

In Danzan Ryu jujutsu, we have two different back falls. The first, and most basic, is the one you are doing. You simply roll backwards, curving your back as you go and slap as your shoulders reach the ground. This type of fall simulates being pushed backwards where you can step as you fall back and the partial roll is simply to amsorb the momentum.

The second back fall is the one your sempai is doing. This is a true back fall and represents when your opponent pulls both legs out from under you and gravity takes over. It is a much harder impact and a much more advanced fall. One of the keys for this type fo fall is to not fall backwards. Instead, you should jump upwards and your back should land where your feet were. Another helpful tip is to kiai when you hit the mat as this helps to keep the wind from getting knocked out of you.

Both falls are important, but they are two very differnent falls. My advise would be to work your way up to the more advanced version. As for the suggestion about twisting your body sideways so you don't land on your spine, it is good advice, but you do need to learn to do a correct back fall, not a side fall (though you should learn that too). When you are throw, you do not always have a choice about how you fall and you need to be able to deal with what you are given.

Good luck and I am glad to hear that you are no longer hitting your head.

jdostie
13th August 2006, 03:15
Thanks for the feedback. This is daito ryu, and we also have an Ukemi that is a back roll. However, I wan't hitting my head, just the shock of the impact kind of transmitted to my head (it felt like my brain kept moving and hit the inside of my skull from too quick of a fall.

How can I work my way up to landing basically flat on my back? And do so without jarring my head too hard?

Thanks again.

jdostie
13th August 2006, 21:33
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.jiu-jitsu.at/essling/ushiro-ukemi.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.jiu-jitsu.at/essling/4-kyu.htm&h=220&w=200&sz=8&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=p89W0hditatR1M:&tbnh=107&tbnw=97&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dushiro%2Bukemi%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.jiu-jitsu.at/essling/ushiro-ukemi.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.jiu-jitsu.at/essling/4-kyu.htm&h=220&w=200&sz=8&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=p89W0hditatR1M:&tbnh=107&tbnw=97&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dushiro%2Bukemi%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN (http://http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.jiu-jitsu.at/essling/ushiro-ukemi.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.jiu-jitsu.at/essling/4-kyu.htm&h=220&w=200&sz=8&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=p89W0hditatR1M:&tbnh=107&tbnw=97&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dushiro%2Bukemi%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN)

Hopefully this works, but this is very like the Ushiro Ukemi done by [my?] sempei. I have tried inserting bot the picture and the link.

Is it reasonable to assume that I can (over time) learn to do this without kind of jarring my neck/head? I haven't retried it while kind of trying to look at my bellybutton. Is that really the key for that technique then (as well as a timely slap to the mat)?

jdostie
13th August 2006, 21:36
Image:
http://www.jiu-jitsu.at/essling/ushiro-ukemi.gif

Link: http://www.jiu-jitsu.at/essling/ushiro-ukemi.gif

kenkyusha
14th August 2006, 01:29
One thing that may help (though as mentioned earlier in the thread, it is hard to offer advice w/out seeing what and where the issues may be) is strengthening your neck muscles.

One thing that I recommend to new folks (in jujutsu, not Daito Ryu, so it may be different) is that they spend time every day lying flat, holding the head aloft (tucking your chin initially, then, after you can do that for 5+ minutes, just let it 'hang' 3 - 4 inches above the floor) while goofing-off. It is the way I justify watching TV sometimes. :)

jdostie
14th August 2006, 05:45
Somehow I gathered that someone would suggest strengthening neck muscles from previous posts. I will give that a try as well.

Thanks