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Gary Wado
10th September 2006, 20:02
Is it me, or are there very few Wado Ryu/Kai practitioners that use this excellent forum.

From the "Major" styles there seems to be few Wado people and I just wonder why that is.

Are we a poor relation? lol.

Gary Needham

trevorg
10th September 2006, 21:27
Same seems to go for Kyokushin.

Joseph Svinth
10th September 2006, 22:01
Most of the posters on this board are from the USA, and Wado Ryu and Kyokushinkai are comparatively uncommon styles in the USA. At the same time, styles popular in the USA (Isshin Ryu, for example) are often comparatively uncommon elsewhere.

trevorg
11th September 2006, 14:54
Most of the posters on this board are from the USA, and Wado Ryu and Kyokushinkai are comparatively uncommon styles in the USA. At the same time, styles popular in the USA (Isshin Ryu, for example) are often comparatively uncommon elsewhere.

I always wondered which side of the pond real karate was practised.

King of bamboo
12th September 2006, 13:48
I think that Wado practitioners spend less time on the internet and more time in the dojo.

:p

/Jens Elieson

john_lord_b3
12th September 2006, 19:05
Is it me, or are there very few Wado Ryu/Kai practitioners that use this excellent forum.

From the "Major" styles there seems to be few Wado people and I just wonder why that is.

Are we a poor relation? lol.

Gary Needham

Wado practitioner here, from the JKF-Wadokai camp. but my teacher was already learning Wado before the 3-way splits. Nice to meet you.

Gary Wado
12th September 2006, 21:17
Nice to hear from you ben,

As with yours, my instructor was around before the three way split. In addition to Ohtsuka Sensei, he was taught (as most of the UK karateka in the Sixties and Seventies were) by Suzuki along with Kobayashi and Arakawa Senseis.

Today we are affiliated to the JKF Wado Kai.

Arakawa Sensei is due to visit us next month to conduct a course for senior grades. Should be good!

You can see more about our association at our web site

www.englandwadokai.org

Does your club / association have a web site I would love to have a look and compare the karate.

Regards

Gary Needham

john_lord_b3
12th September 2006, 22:11
Sure, we have a site right here

http://www.geocities.com/wadokai_indonesia/album.html

but it haven't been updated for years :(

I am at your site right now. Very good looking, professional site, unlike ours, which are amateur-ish.

Gary Wado
13th September 2006, 19:58
Ben,

Had a look at the site, Its got a lot of good history to it.

Your instructor obviously has an excellent pedigree. Good to see photos of him with some of the old masters!

Do you practice Idori and Tanto Dori in your syllabus?

Gary Needham

john_lord_b3
14th September 2006, 18:10
thank you for your kind words about our sensei.

Yes before the 3 way splits, Mr. Taman learned techniques from all the current leaders: Mr. Hakoishi, Mr. Suzuki, Mr. Jiro (Otsuka 2nd) and others. So we practice the Wado-ryu Jujutsu techniques as well, such as the 7 Idori, 7 Tantodori and the 10 Kihon Kumite. We also do some fujin goshinjutsu, gyakudori & nagewaza/taoshuwaza. In fact, my dojo specializes on such techniques.

what about your dojo?

Gary Wado
14th September 2006, 23:56
thank you for your kind words about our sensei.

We also do some fujin goshinjutsu, gyakudori & nagewaza/taoshuwaza. In fact, my dojo specializes on such techniques.

what about your dojo?

At our small club dojo we occasionally practice Idori, but not Tanto Dori.

In our national association, Idori and Tanto Dori are not part of he syllabus. We tend to concentrate on Ippone, Ohyo and Kihon Kumite.

Interested to hear more about the "fujin goshinjutsu, gyakudori & nagewaza/taoshuwaza" you refer to as this is new to me.

Can you give me any more details.

Regards

Gary Needham

www.wado-kai-karate.co.uk

Tim Shaw
15th September 2006, 16:40
Hello all,

Another Wado practioner and E-Budo lurker here.
Wado is comparatively large here in Europe, so there's lots of us about.

Maybe we could spark up some E-Budo curiosity about Wado. I see too much misinformation flying about regarding Wado (regardless of the various affiliations).

Tim Shaw

ken harding
15th September 2006, 23:24
A wado thread in here, whatever next.

I lurk in here mostly too though make an odd post.

A wado origins thread and a drawing together of all the different Wado Ryu traditions might be an interesting thread...for me anyway :)

gordonfong
15th September 2006, 23:27
I too also think the UK (and Europe) has a large contingent of Wado Ryu practitioners, although they do seem very shy on the Internet.

One of my main gripes is about how Wado show carry on and develop, as opposed to being a snapshot of a period of time. Again, this is regardless of affilialition and so forth.

Not too sure on Ben's phrases of ""fujin goshinjutsu, gyakudori & nagewaza/taoshuwaza" but I suspect they are highly jujutsu orientated.

As a guess and this is all it is...

the fujin gohinjutsu refers to set set of drills which are very much 'self-defence' orientated, depending on the year/century they were devised.

Gyakudori I suspect refers to some kind of reversing of the joints as in locking the arm and going against the natral movements of the joints be they arm, fingers and legs for example.

Nagewaza seem to relate to "throwing" techniques. However, to me (without and kind of Judo, Aikido or Jujutsu experience admittedly), throwing techniques are just a nice and friendly manifestation of practising gyakuwaza with a partner. A throw should ideally not occur when a snap or dislocation of an arm or a joint should occur.

After Gooling the word "taoshuwaza" one result pointed in the direction of "takedown". This is a natural progression of our Wado technique, from its roots in Jujutsu, where we follow through with our kuzushi for example to produce visible results and the mindset that we always follow through with a definitive outcome and not just to score a point.

gordonfong
15th September 2006, 23:30
I posted near the same time you did Ken, who I have seen on other forums.

It would be nice to get some Wado based threads going, that do not then diverge at a tangent.

Gary Wado
15th September 2006, 23:57
Hi Gordon,

Your name sounds familiar. Think I have trained with you at Corin Pegdens Dojo when Shiomitsu Sensei took a class some years ago now.

Did you get chance to train with Akihiko Kobayshi when he came over earlier in the year and if so what did you think?


Gary Needham

Gary Wado
16th September 2006, 00:36
I know we all came from the same "pod" as it were, but interested to hear any views on the subtle differences between Wado Kai and Wado Ryu Karate.

I am aware of the History about the JKF and Wado Ryu Karate-do Renmei but politics aside, what are peoples views on the the technical differences if any.

Gary

gordonfong
16th September 2006, 01:29
Probably best to start a new thread if you would like to discuss that.

Hopefully this thread is there to show that there are Wado exponents on the forum.

Yagyuhoo
16th September 2006, 04:04
Another Wado-lurker here, but from the other side of the pond. (Mosquitoville, USA.) Our organization is little known outside of Yamaguchi Prefecture. Sensei Sakura was a contemporary of Suzuki and Motoyoshi (famous for his sokuto kekome to Sensei Suzuki's knee). In the early 60s Sakura became a priest and asked permission to start his own organization, Bushinkai. One of his students is my teacher, Sensei Nakamura.

Alex Dale
16th September 2006, 21:18
Howdy,


I'm a student of Takamura-ha Shindo Yoshin-ryu, but it's good to see some of you guys maintaining the traditional curriculum of some of the jujutsu that your founder had learned and passed down. At Toby Threadgill's last Austin seminar (June 2006), same Wado-ryu guys from I think Plano showed up.


Regards,

gordonfong
18th September 2006, 13:54
Hi Gordon,

Your name sounds familiar. Think I have trained with you at Corin Pegdens Dojo when Shiomitsu Sensei took a class some years ago now.

Did you get chance to train with Akihiko Kobayshi when he came over earlier in the year and if so what did you think?

Gary Needham

Hi Gary, sorry I can't seem to remember but it is usually a quick in-and-out dash to Haslemere from sunny Bournemouth.

When Akihiko Kobayshi visited, he didn't actually teach. It was Fumitoshi Kimura. We just did some sparring type work and didn't touch on kihon, kata or kumite.

I couldn't really comment on the differences as I have never trained in JKF Wado Kai so wouldn't be qualified to do so.

Tim Shaw
18th September 2006, 18:40
Hi,

I don't know how many people would be in a position to make comparisons between the three "strands" of Wado, whatever happens knowledge will always be incomplete.

I was fortunate enough to spend the first 16/17 of my training in the UKKW under Tatsuo Suzuki Sensei and then the remaining years under the Wado Renmei. But I also have a number of good friends who are well placed in the Wado Kai and have trained alongside them and swapped notes (this is Sakagami Sensei's Wado Kai people - I can't keep up to date with the politics but I understand there is another group calling itself Wado Kai, can somebody please tell me which is the official Wado Kai recognised by Wado Kai in Japan?)

Anyway, I wouldn't put myself forward to make any definitive comparisons, my area of weakness being Wado Kai methodology, but I know enough people who may be well placed to have a stab at a Wado Kai definition - try Keith Walker for example.

Tim Shaw

epramberg
18th September 2006, 20:41
Most of the posters on this board are from the USA, and Wado Ryu and Kyokushinkai are comparatively uncommon styles in the USA. At the same time, styles popular in the USA (Isshin Ryu, for example) are often comparatively uncommon elsewhere.

It is true. For some odd reason, in terms of Karate in the USA, Shotokan rules on high. It doesn't really help that we have 4 major heads of Wado in this country, that for the most part do not get along. That makes it difficult to organize and spread.

gordonfong
18th September 2006, 22:46
To throw another variant in the mix, well at least from a UK perspective, I was in Sensei Toru Takamizawa's associations from the age of 11 (Tera Karate Kai and then the Takamizawa Institute of Karate) before joining the Wado Academy. Takamizawa Sensei's karate was quite unique in his approach but also very adherent to Wado principles.

Again, I don't feel I am qualified to say what it is or wasn't, I just have to embrace my chosen route as long as I believe in it.

Chucky
19th September 2006, 14:40
Hi there fellow Wadoka.

It is nice to see some people on this thread that I know.
As for the 'three way's' of Wado, well I think we could spend hours on here discussing the differences.
The only way for me is to train with as many Wado Sensei possible, irrespective of which path they follow.
I have managed to train with H Otsuka II and senior members of the Wado Renmei, T Suzuki, T Maeda, M Ashihara, K Sakagami and S Ohgami of the JKF Wadokai and many other Japanese and non-Japanese Sensei.

My opinion is that Suzuki Hanshi has pretty much kept his Wado the same since the 60's, Otsuka Soke has developed his Wado along the lines of the way he believes his father would have developed it, and The JKF Wadokai have taken it along a similiar path, developing Wado amongst the senior members of that organisation.

My group is called Kenkyukai, and we aim to follow it's meaning by studying with as many Wado Sensei as possible. I believe they all, and we, have so much to offer. Basically if the badge on the Gi contains a dove then it's good for me.
Being independent I don't have to worry about upsetting anyone by training with someone outside of my organisation.
I have always found the majority of Sensei very welcoming, with very few exceptions.
If only people could bury their differences then all of Wado could be one, and the three 'factions' could train together, their difference in technique would be inconsequential as long as it follows the mechanics and ethics of Otsuka Meijin's teaching.

How about us all getting together for a Wado workshop one day in the future?

Yours in the way of peace
Graham Chuck

Tim Shaw
19th September 2006, 19:48
If only people could bury their differences then all of Wado could be one, and the three 'factions' could train together, their difference in technique would be inconsequential as long as it follows the mechanics and ethics of Otsuka Meijin's teaching.

I've been thinking about this, I phrase my comments very carefully, having no pre-judgements or motives behind them;

I wonder if all Wado being one would be desirable?

Also, would it be possible?

I wonder even if it is possible to answer those questions, I for one don't consider myself qualified to do so. The politics are really complicated and I don't know how many people have a FULL overview of that area.

As for the technical aspects.... things have moved on considerably since the early days, various Senseis, who are more than qualified to do so, have added their own interpretations and developed Wado and encouraged it to grow. Unification in the 70's was probably more feasable from the technical angle than it is now.

I have no answers myself, only observations from my own limited perspective.

Tim Shaw

john_lord_b3
19th September 2006, 20:15
Not too sure on Ben's phrases of ""fujin goshinjutsu, gyakudori & nagewaza/taoshuwaza" but I suspect they are highly jujutsu orientated.


hello Gordon san, nice to meet another wadogroups@yahoo.com veteran here.



the fujin gohinjutsu refers to set set of drills which are very much 'self-defence' orientated, depending on the year/century they were devised.


In my Dojo, they're simply a handful of women self-defense techniques, using strikes and throws/locks just like ones found in Kihon Kumite, Idori and Tantodori. But I heard that they are officially included in the Wado Renmei syllabus. Mr. Jiro's video shows 5 of their "official" Fujin Goshin Kata.



Gyakudori I suspect refers to some kind of reversing of the joints as in locking the arm and going against the natral movements of the joints be they arm, fingers and legs for example.

True. Examples would be the Hikitatedori and Udegaramidori of Tantodori no Kata, and the Gozendori of Idori no Kata. BTW, what's your affiliation? I am using JKF-WK terms, if you use different terms, I'll do my best to explain to you in later posts.



Nagewaza seem to relate to "throwing" techniques. However, to me (without and kind of Judo, Aikido or Jujutsu experience admittedly), throwing techniques are just a nice and friendly manifestation of practising gyakuwaza with a partner. A throw should ideally not occur when a snap or dislocation of an arm or a joint should occur.


example of Wado throwing techniques would me the Gohonme (no 5) and Jupponme (no 10) of Kihon Kumite. No 5 is just like what you said, using Gyakuwaza to drop the opponent. But no 10 is more like a throwing technique, because no Gyakuwaza are activated against the opponent's joints, we simply use footwork and timing (plus a firm grip) to pull the opponent off-balance, and then throw them to the ground.



After Gooling the word "taoshuwaza" one result pointed in the direction of "takedown". This is a natural progression of our Wado technique, from its roots in Jujutsu, where we follow through with our kuzushi for example to produce visible results and the mindset that we always follow through with a definitive outcome and not just to score a point.

That's correct, Taoshuwaza are takedowns. If you are with Suzuki sensei's WIKF, he shows many Taoshuwaza on his Kumite sets.

john_lord_b3
19th September 2006, 20:24
Hi,

I don't know how many people would be in a position to make comparisons between the three "strands" of Wado, whatever happens knowledge will always be incomplete.


Hello Tim san,

Glad to meet another wadogroups friend here :)

john_lord_b3
19th September 2006, 20:31
I have always found the majority of Sensei very welcoming, with very few exceptions.
If only people could bury their differences then all of Wado could be one, and the three 'factions' could train together, their difference in technique would be inconsequential as long as it follows the mechanics and ethics of Otsuka Meijin's teaching.

How about us all getting together for a Wado workshop one day in the future?

Yours in the way of peace
Graham Chuck

I pray for that day to really do come true one day! :)

Actually it already happened in personal basis though. I am in regular contact with people from other side of the pond. Perhaps in not-too-distant future, we can have a "Wado gathering" where all Wadokas are welcome, regardless of affiliations.

john_lord_b3
19th September 2006, 20:36
Howdy,


I'm a student of Takamura-ha Shindo Yoshin-ryu, but it's good to see some of you guys maintaining the traditional curriculum of some of the jujutsu that your founder had learned and passed down. At Toby Threadgill's last Austin seminar (June 2006), same Wado-ryu guys from I think Plano showed up.


Regards,

Hello Alex,

Please send my regards to Mr. Threadgill. We have correspond in the past, and he is a very knowledgeable person.

As for maintaining the traditional Jujutsu waza, well, if not for those Jujutsu theories and techniques, then we won't be Wado-ryu anymore ;)

CEB
19th September 2006, 21:33
Hello

I like Jon Lord also.

Jon Lord played a customized C3.

Its the same generator and same keyboards as the B model but a different cabinet. The C sits in a console or church cabinet. The B cabinet has legs.

epramberg
20th September 2006, 02:47
Hello Alex,

Please send my regards to Mr. Threadgill. We have correspond in the past, and he is a very knowledgeable person.

As for maintaining the traditional Jujutsu waza, well, if not for those Jujutsu theories and techniques, then we won't be Wado-ryu anymore ;)

Actually, I currently train with Toby as well. Hi (it's Pete)!

ken harding
20th September 2006, 10:25
Probably best to start a new thread if you would like to discuss that.

Hopefully this thread is there to show that there are Wado exponents on the forum.

Hi there, yeah I lurk and even mod in odd places on the net.

Interesting to see Wadowy people pop up from all over.

Hello again Mr Chuck!

Nice Also to see the Takamura Ha input.

One big happy family - aaah if only :)

Chucky
20th September 2006, 13:23
Hello again.

We all know that true unity is really just a dream, I suppose.

The three major factions have developed things their own way, and each has it's own merit. Neither is 'right or wrong', just different.

A few months I attended a course taught by a prominent, JKF allied 7th Dan English Sensei. On the course was a prominent 7th Dan member of the Wado Academy, who just went there to train. The reason he was on the course- he and the instructor have known each other for nearly 35 years.
During the course they compared notes on the performance and application of technique.
It was a joy to watch, and any questions I asked were promptly answered.

I remember visiting your club a few times Tim, and I learnt a lot. I enjoyed working with Gary on the recent SKW course. Ken and I both come from the same association. All our Wado is different yes, but maybe it's not the performance of the technique, just the Dove on whatever badge we wear.

There will probably never be unity amongst the three major Wado factions, but that doesn't mean there can never be unity amongst people like ourselves.
So, as previously mentioned, is anyone interested in a Wado-workshop?

Gary Wado
20th September 2006, 22:42
Hi Graham,

Also good to train with you the other day.

What do you have in mind for the Wado Workshop?

I would love to dig a bit deeper into the "Atemi" side of Wado (taking into account Katana and Tanto dori etc.) and the correlation with modern Wado Karate techniques.

Bit deep maybe!

Gary Needham

Chucky
20th September 2006, 23:07
Hi Gary.

I will post again tomorrow, as it's time to eat now!
And we can discuss a get together on this forum.

Best wishes
Graham Chuck
PS Had a good chat with Wilkinson Shihan today, good to know you all.

Chucky
21st September 2006, 15:39
Hi Graham,

Also good to train with you the other day.

What do you have in mind for the Wado Workshop?

I would love to dig a bit deeper into the "Atemi" side of Wado (taking into account Katana and Tanto dori etc.) and the correlation with modern Wado Karate techniques.

Bit deep maybe!

Gary Needham

Not deep at all.
I feel the Atemi side is rather neglected. Some would say as Wado is a 'soft' art there is no Atemi, others would say as Otsuka was a bone setter he had a good knowledge of the human body. Not to mention his mastery of Shindo yoshin ryu Ju jitsu.

I suppose we could get together with Wadoka from the three sides, would we learn a lot or would we just see and practise a lot?
In effect I would think that having a get together we could share the things that are a speciality of, or are unique to, the respective groups. EG from the academy- Kumite gata, from the JKF- some Tanto dori, from the WIKF- Ohyo gumite.
Also the one thing that I must confess to having an out and out passion for is Kata Bunkai. Again I'm sure there are different variations in the three factions, and I suppose there would be as the Kata are performed somewhat differently. But between us I'm sure we could compare loads.
Just a few thoughts guys. If we get it together great. I know that various Goju people have something similiar to this on an annual basis, - so why not one for Wado?
Your thoughts please
Graham Chuck

ken harding
21st September 2006, 22:20
A sort of United Wado Seminar - open to all exponents regardless of affiliation.

No political aganda, just an invitation to train together and share ...........now that WOULD be something.

john_lord_b3
22nd September 2006, 06:52
Hi Graham,

Also good to train with you the other day.

What do you have in mind for the Wado Workshop?

I would love to dig a bit deeper into the "Atemi" side of Wado (taking into account Katana and Tanto dori etc.) and the correlation with modern Wado Karate techniques.

Bit deep maybe!

Gary Needham

In Mr. Jiro (Otsuka II)'s video, he shows many "unusual" Wado hand strikes, directed at specific pressure points. Such as knuckle strike, open hand strikes, etc.

john_lord_b3
22nd September 2006, 06:56
Hello

I like Jon Lord also.

Jon Lord played a customized C3.

Its the same generator and same keyboards as the B model but a different cabinet. The C sits in a console or church cabinet. The B cabinet has legs.


(out of topic mode on)

Yup, and he has an RMI Electric piano installed inside the C3. Also a Moog Ring Modulator on top of it, so that he could generate "otherworldly" sounds like he did at the "Burn" and "Space Truckin" solo (at California Jam 1974 concert).

He uses B-3 only on occasions when his C3 are not available, such as when he recorded "Battle Rages On" in mid 90s. He also brings a Hammond XB-2 (mini digital Hammond) on the road, in case the real hammond deserted him in mid-performance.

Glad to meet another Purple Troopers :)

(out of topic mode off) please forgive me, mr. moderator!

gordonfong
22nd September 2006, 09:18
In Mr. Jiro (Otsuka II)'s video, he shows many "unusual" Wado hand strikes, directed at specific pressure points. Such as knuckle strike, open hand strikes, etc.

Many of the open hand strikes are there to loosen the opponent for a lock or throw. There are more visibly apparent in the idori and tanto dori.

Chucky
22nd September 2006, 10:56
A sort of United Wado Seminar - open to all exponents regardless of affiliation.

No political aganda, just an invitation to train together and share ...........now that WOULD be something.

That's what we want Ken.

Obviously we will need a central location, I know you're in Surrey, as is Gary.
I'm in deepest Devon. But we have roads down here now, so we can travel up.
Who is willing to take part? As we all have something to offer we could all have a go at showing something. No politics, no ego's, no seniority. Just some good training, with maybe an isotonic beer or two afterwards.
(Just to replace fluids lost through training)!
Graham Chuck

john_lord_b3
22nd September 2006, 17:21
Many of the open hand strikes are there to loosen the opponent for a lock or throw. There are more visibly apparent in the idori and tanto dori.

Yes, for example the quick strike before going into kinukuguri, kotegaeshi and zudori.

gordonfong
22nd September 2006, 17:42
I believe they can be referred to as hari ate, for distraction and loosening an opponent, as opposed to kari ate which is more of destruction. Well, that's if I remember it correctly.

john_lord_b3
22nd September 2006, 17:56
the killing strike (ichigeki hisatsu) is usually the one executed last. For example in Kihon Kumite 5, the first few strikes are distraction strikes, but the last shuto/tegatana after we immobilize the Uke is the killing strike.

john_lord_b3
22nd September 2006, 20:17
Another Wado-lurker here, but from the other side of the pond. (Mosquitoville, USA.) Our organization is little known outside of Yamaguchi Prefecture. Sensei Sakura was a contemporary of Suzuki and Motoyoshi (famous for his sokuto kekome to Sensei Suzuki's knee). In the early 60s Sakura became a priest and asked permission to start his own organization, Bushinkai. One of his students is my teacher, Sensei Nakamura.

I heard good things about Mr. Sakura. I heard he is one of the few person who received a "Nihon Den Shinto Yoshin-ryu Kenpo Hachidan Menkyo" from Otsuka sensei. Do you learn any Shinto Yoshin-ryu Kenpo techniques at the Bushinkai?

gordonfong
23rd September 2006, 10:02
the killing strike (ichigeki hisatsu) is usually the one executed last. For example in Kihon Kumite 5, the first few strikes are distraction strikes, but the last shuto/tegatana after we immobilize the Uke is the killing strike.

Hi Ben, this is the first time I have heard/seen the term "ichigeki hisatsu". I have seen "ikken hissatsu" before.

Currently I am not sure whether "ikken hissatsu" is the ideal concept of facing an opponent and doing just one technique for a straight kill and "ichigeki hisatsu" refers to a technique that finishes an opponent but could be on the back of many attacks.

Maybe someone can provide a clearer explanation for me.

My personal feeling is that Wado Ryu does not fit well with "ikken hissatsu" from a empty handed karate perspective. When facing an opponent, yes we must adopt a mindset that from just one strike they might finish us off, but our response is to defend accordingly so that one strike does not complete its purpose, whilst having an attacking mindset that keeps on attacking until you are in a position to finish the opponent. Attack and defence together.

john_lord_b3
24th September 2006, 07:14
Hi Ben, this is the first time I have heard/seen the term "ichigeki hisatsu". I have seen "ikken hissatsu" before.

sorry I was mistaken, your term are the right one, it should be ikken hisatsu.




Currently I am not sure whether "ikken hissatsu" is the ideal concept of facing an opponent and doing just one technique for a straight kill and "ichigeki hisatsu" refers to a technique that finishes an opponent but could be on the back of many attacks.


From what I know, Ikken Hisatsu concept is like this "in a real fight, anything goes, one technique from us can kill the enemy, and vice versa. So, do not fight, except when it's worth dying for". But YMMV.



When facing an opponent, yes we must adopt a mindset that from just one strike they might finish us off,

this is what I was talking about



but our response is to defend accordingly so that one strike does not complete its purpose, whilst having an attacking mindset that keeps on attacking until you are in a position to finish the opponent. Attack and defence together.

True, that's the Wado way.

gordonfong
25th September 2006, 15:14
sorry I was mistaken, your term are the right one, it should be ikken hisatsu.


Ben

from a quick search on Google, both terms do show up: ikken hisatsu and ichigeki hisatsu. Haven't read into them too much to understand if they are the same, similar or different.

We all know not to take what we immediately see as correct just in case they got it wrong as well and we serve to perpetuate it.

Yagyuhoo
29th September 2006, 11:17
I heard good things about Mr. Sakura. I heard he is one of the few person who received a "Nihon Den Shinto Yoshin-ryu Kenpo Hachidan Menkyo" from Otsuka sensei. Do you learn any Shinto Yoshin-ryu Kenpo techniques at the Bushinkai?

Yes, Sakura Sensei received a Shinto Yoshin-ryu Kenpo Hachidan but these were more like honorary degrees, like an honorary doctorate. They applied to only things like Kihon Kumite, Tanto Dori and Idori--which of course are already included in the normal Wado syllabus and are inherent in being graded (Sakura was graded to Hachidan by Ohtsuka). No kata or techniques that are purely Shinto Yoshin-ryu Jujutsu are practiced by Bushinka. I don't think Ohtuka Sensei passed on any of the curriculum of Shinto Yoshin-ryu.

That being said, there's no desputing the influence of jujutsu and sword in the karate of Wado. Ohgami Sensei has some good research online: http://www.hogia.net/karate/karate/index.htm

Also, I think Suzuki Sensei received a Shinto Yoshin-ryu license. Rumor has it that he tore it up and threw it in the trash.