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the Khazar Kid
12th June 2000, 21:55
How many Shaolin temples were/are there? I have heard of the Honan Shaolin Temple, the Fukien Shaolin Temple, the Shaolin Temple on Mt. Omei, and a Shaolin Temple in Taiwan? Is it true that the abbot of the Shaolin temple fled to Japan when the Mongols conquered China? And the abbot of which Shaolin Temple? Please enlighten me as to this.

Jesse Peters



[Edited by the Khazar Kid on 06-25-2000 at 10:51 PM]

sean_stonehart
13th June 2000, 02:11
I'm not sure if this is proper forum about a Chinese martial art, but you asked, I'll answer with what I know.

There is only the Henan temple that Pa T'ui Da Mo taught at. There is another temple site that has been uncovered recently in Fujian that the goverment (PRC) is rapidly repairing/building at either Tian Shan or Wu Shan near Fuzhou (I think...). The reason I say that, is that the Southern Temple has been something of a legend/unconfirmed fact. There are those who say it was merely a rallying point & focus point for the anti-Qing forces, like Camelot of Olde Englande. Others say it was there & my system is originated out of the Southern Temple. I don't know, I wasn't there, but I support the idea of the temple being there.

As far as a Shaolin Temple in Taiwan, I don't believe so. But... I don't know. My martial arts come from the mainland, so there isn't much reference to islands.

As far as a Shaolin temple on Omei Shan, there are a great many temples in China that have alliances with Shaolin & by default can claim themselves as Shaolin. There were also Shaolin Temples on other holy mountains. There are Buddhist(Shaolin) Temples on Hua Shuan & HuaShan is historically a Taoist area.

My best advice, believe what you see as plausible & don't believe what you see as plausible. In other words, some say yes, some say no. The trick is none of us were there. Remember, the victor writes the history books.

I can only go to visit & see where the past occured & what the modern portrays as the past. I'm going next year. I'll see the Henan temple & the modern Wushu troupe performing in the saffron robes of Shaolin monks. Are some of them ordained? You betcha. Since they are ordained, but practicing modern Wushu, does that make them any less a Shaolin monk? Not really to me. I'm also going to Chen Jia-guo, the historical origin point for Taiji Quan. The fact that I'll be practicing the 18 step from Chen Zhen-lei(19th generation) & not the 13 step form from the 9th Chen patriarch, does it make it less original Chen Taiji?? Not really...

------------------
The Wise don't obey useless laws.
-- Lao Tzu

Mäki-Kuutti Vesa
25th June 2000, 20:49
Gassho !
Never been in china. The late Kaiso Doshin So, The founder of the art of Shorinji Kempo that is now practiced under World Shorinji Kempo Organization, studied in China from
1928 to 1946 also in Baiyi Dian at Shaolinsi, Songshan, Hunan Province. This temple has those famous wall paintings of the Indian buddhist monks teaching Chinese students in fighting arts. This temple is also called Suzan Shorinji (Shaolin Temple).

So Doshin was 1932 permitted to succeed Wen'tau Tsung, the 20th master of Northern Shorinji Giwamonken, as the 21st master in the line.

This information comes from The textbook of Shorinji Kempo
page 57.

Onegaishimazu

Yamantaka
26th July 2000, 10:51
"[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mäki-Kuutti Vesa
So Doshin was 1932 permitted to succeed Wen'tau Tsung, the 20th master of Northern Shorinji Giwamonken, as the 21st master in the line.
This information comes from The textbook of Shorinji Kempo
page 57."

Sorry, but wasn't that story disclaimed in a process, in Japan, moved by the chinese community? I heard that Doshin So losed that process and was forced to change the name of his art to "NIHON Shorinji Kempo", meaning, "Japanese style Shaolin Kung Fu".
Can anybody explains the facts to me?
Best
Yamantaka

Mäki-Kuutti Vesa
27th July 2000, 08:32
To Yamantaka san, thank you for your comment.

Yes, the organization that was founded 1947 in Japan was under the name of "Nippon Shorinji Kempo" and is followed now by the WSKO. It was my intention in the text to comment the story of Shaolin temple and how it is linked to the style of Shorinji Kempo today. I notice that I should have been more precise. Shorinji Kempo is not identical to Shaolin kung-fu.

I notice you have interest in history; Considering the situation of chinese community and japanese after the horrors of the second world war and Japanese invasion to
China, there may not have been a great common understanding
of the historical events.

However Shorinji Kempo as a religion called "Kongo zen Shohonzan Shorinji" is a typical modern postwar Japanese religion having its own interpretations of zen buddhism.

The mythical beginning of zen is connected to Shaolin Temple
same as the mythical beginning of many arts of selfdefence.
At least So Doshin was there also in the real life. But the
selfdefence style he founded in Japan is a collection of techniques from many sources, made by the founder himself.
And indeed is a modern independent art of selfdefence with the philosophy of zen buddhist religion.

Yamantaka
27th July 2000, 11:53
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mäki-Kuutti Vesa
[B]To Yamantaka san, thank you for your comment.


And Thank you for your information, Sir!
Best regards
Yamantaka