Aikikai Hombu Affiliation

[jimbaker]

I noticed a new page on the Aikikai Foundation's web site (http://www.aikikai.or.jp/eng/index.htm) which lists the organizations in each country which are affiliated with the Aikikai Hombu Dojo.

For the US, the list is : Aikido Association of Northern California; Aikido Tenshinkai Federation; California Aikido Association; Makoto Aikido Kyokai; Takemusu Aikido Association; United States Aikido Federation.

Well, first off, the AANC mostly became the CAA and the TAA. Is there a remnant of the old AANC still affiliated with Hombu, or is this just an error?

Secondly, are the Aikido Association of America and the Aikido Schools of Ueshiba not affiliated? There are a number of organizations in the US who get Hombu Dojo dan certificates through their Shihan, rather than directly as a recognized group. Is this the case with the AAA and the ASU?

Thirdly, does any of this matter?

Jim Baker

[Tim Mailloux]

I also know that United Stated Aikido Federation - western region under Chiba sensei has split from the USAF and is now known as Birankai International. Chiba sensei's Birankai is also a member of the Aikikai and IAF.

[Chris Li]

I also know that United Stated Aikido Federation - western region under Chiba sensei has split from the USAF and is now known as Birankai International. Chiba sensei's Birankai is also a member of the Aikikai and IAF.

Are they really members of the IAF? As I understand it the one country-organization rule is still in effect...

Of course, there are a lot of groups, large and small, in the US that affiliate directly to Aikikai hombu but weren't on that list.

Best,

Chris

[jimbaker]

... Chiba sensei's Birankai is also a member of the Aikikai and IAF.

Birankai is listed as an affiliated organization under the United Kingdom.

Jim Baker

[jimbaker]

...

Of course, there are a lot of groups, large and small, in the US that affiliate directly to Aikikai hombu but weren't on that list.


That's my point. If they aren't on the list, are they affiliated directly with Hombu as an organization?

Jim Baker

[BC]

My guess is that the listing just hasn't been updated in a while. Hombu's website still lists the various non-USAF affiliated uchideshi in the US such as Saotome, Chiba, Shiohira and Shibata Senseis.

[Chris Li]

That's my point. If they aren't on the list, are they affiliated directly with Hombu as an organization?

Jim Baker

Well, I know for a fact that there are groups not on that list that are getting their rank certificates directly from Aikikai hombu. That would mean that they are "affiliated", right?

Best,

Chris

[Andrew S]

Secondly, are the Aikido Association of America and the Aikido Schools of Ueshiba not affiliated? There are a number of organizations in the US who get Hombu Dojo dan certificates through their Shihan, rather than directly as a recognized group. Is this the case with the AAA and the ASU?

After the passing of Toyoda Sensei, the AAA became affiliated with Kobayashi Sensei's group.

[grondahl]

It´s kind of intresting that some Aikikai-affiliated organisations have spread out to different countrys and continents.
How do the Aikikai deal with those organisations, ex CAA?

[P Goldsbury]

Hello Mr Baker,

I think I can answer some of your questions. My answers are flagged 'PAG'.


I noticed a new page on the Aikikai Foundation's web site (http://www.aikikai.or.jp/eng/index.htm) which lists the organizations in each country which are affiliated with the Aikikai Hombu Dojo.

For the US, the list is : Aikido Association of Northern California; Aikido Tenshinkai Federation; California Aikido Association; Makoto Aikido Kyokai; Takemusu Aikido Association; United States Aikido Federation.

[QUOTE=jimbaker]Well, first off, the AANC mostly became the CAA and the TAA. Is there a remnant of the old AANC still affiliated with Hombu, or is this just an error?
PAG. Since it is a Vaticanesque organization, it is very unusual for the Aikikai to cancel any recognition it has bestowed. So it is quite possible for Aikikai-recognized organizations to become ghosts or simply outer shells, with no inner existence. There are a few examples outside the USA.


Secondly, are the Aikido Association of America and the Aikido Schools of Ueshiba not affiliated? There are a number of organizations in the US who get Hombu Dojo dan certificates through their Shihan, rather than directly as a recognized group. Is this the case with the AAA and the ASU?
PAG. In this case the rules published on the website state the real situation only as this relates to organizations without any resident shihan recognized as such by the Aikikai. Saotome-shi is recognized by the Aikikai as a haken shihan and so any dan ranks he gives anywhere in the world are recognized. This freedom really depends on the relation between the shihan and the organization of which he is the shihan. In Europe some shihan are employees of their organizations; others are 'self-employed' and have a different relationship with their organizations. I have no idea of the situation in the US.


Thirdly, does any of this matter?
PAG. Well, you yourself raised the question, so I assume it matters to you.

Best wishes,

[aikikaidragon]

The aikido World Alliance headed by Sato Sensei, is also missing from the list. But we do get our dan ranks from the aikikai.

[Charles Hill]

Since it is a Vaticanesque organization,

Prof. Goldsbury,

As a non-Catholic, I would be very interested in what this means.

Thank you,
Charles Hill

[john_lord_b3]

Pardon me for butting in and maybe post a comment (and a question) which is related, but not quite so, with the title of this thread. If this is offensive, I apologize to the moderators, and please feel free to edit or delete this post.

My questions are these:

1. What are the thoughts of E-Budo Aikido Forum members regarding people who started new Aikido organizations which are not affiliated with any major Hombu in Japan. One of my teachers happened to be a founder of one such organization.

2. Is there already a thread discussing such independent organizations here in E-Budo? A link to that particular thread will be very much appreciated.

For the record, I currently practice a Jujutsu system descended from Hakko-ryu (an art related to Daito-ryu and Aikido), and also a hybrid Karate-Jujutsu system called Wado-ryu. So my interest in Aikido is mostly because I have plenty of friends in this art, both inside and outside the Aikikai, and because one of my teachers was once an area representative for the Aikikai, who later elected to start a new independent group.

Many thanks!

[P Goldsbury]

Pardon me for butting in and maybe post a comment (and a question) which is related, but not quite so, with the title of this thread. If this is offensive, I apologize to the moderators, and please feel free to edit or delete this post.

My questions are these:

1. What are the thoughts of E-Budo Aikido Forum members regarding people who started new Aikido organizations which are not affiliated with any major Hombu in Japan. One of my teachers happened to be a founder of one such organization.

2. Is there already a thread discussing such independent organizations here in E-Budo? A link to that particular thread will be very much appreciated.

For the record, I currently practice a Jujutsu system descended from Hakko-ryu (an art related to Daito-ryu and Aikido), and also a hybrid Karate-Jujutsu system called Wado-ryu. So my interest in Aikido is mostly because I have plenty of friends in this art, both inside and outside the Aikikai, and because one of my teachers was once an area representative for the Aikikai, who later elected to start a new independent group.

Many thanks!

Well, the name aikido has never been registered and its links with Morihei Ueshiba are primarily traditional. So I think that anyone may found an aikido organization. Prospective members will, however, need to be assured that what the organization actually practises is aikido and not something else. So there is usually an emphasis on the credentials of the person wh founds the organization or on links with a recignized aikido organization like the Aikikai.

As for discussing this in E-Budo, if the topic of discussion is recognizably aikido, this is the forum for it. If not, it will moved elsewhere in E-Budo.

Best wishes,

[john_lord_b3]

Thank you very much Prof. Goldbury for the information.

BTW, my Wado-ryu teacher was a graduate from Hiroshima Daigaku, Ship Building department.

[P Goldsbury]

Thank you very much Prof. Goldbury for the information.

BTW, my Wado-ryu teacher was a graduate from Hiroshima Daigaku, Ship Building department.

Hello,

Well, at the risk of thread drift, I hope his karate and ship-building skills are better now than his English skills were, when he was at Hiroshima University. The students of the Engineering Faculty were famous for the way in which they failed to be affected in almost any way by the (admittedly notoriously inadequate) English education they received in Japanese high schools.

Coning back to the thread, as I stated in my post, I think the issue that affects most discussions in E-budo is lineage and authenticity. So, there is no problen about someone breaking away and forming an independent group or organization. People are free to act as they wish. Problems tend to arise, however, if the training history is fudged or if there is unusual economy with the truth.

Best wishes,

[john_lord_b3]

Hello Prof. Goldsbury,

My Aikido teacher, Mr. Prawira Wijaya, was the pioneer of Aikido in Indonesia. We have documented proof that he was, here

http://www.geocities.com/aikido_1968/proof1.jpg

the whole page is here

http://www.geocities.com/aikido_1968/prawira.html

So what are your opinions, is it OK for an Aikikai area representative to start his own Aikido training method? I personally enjoyed his methods greatly. Jujutsu and Karate is my main thing now, but I benefited a lot from my training with Wijaya sensei.

Drifting a bit, to my other teacher who graduated from Hiroshima Daigaku (C.A. Taman sensei).. well, his Karate skills are extraordinary, his Jujutsu skills are very good, and there are room for improvements for his English. That's about the best comment I can make without inviting the wrath of the Kami upon myself :)

[P Goldsbury]

Hello Prof. Goldsbury,

My Aikido teacher, Mr. Prawira Wijaya, was the pioneer of Aikido in Indonesia. We have documented proof that he was, here

http://www.geocities.com/aikido_1968/proof1.jpg

the whole page is here

http://www.geocities.com/aikido_1968/prawira.html

So what are your opinions, is it OK for an Aikikai area representative to start his own Aikido training method? I personally enjoyed his methods greatly. Jujutsu and Karate is my main thing now, but I benefited a lot from my training with Wijaya sensei.

It depends on the training methods and the extent to which they match, or deviate from, the principles mentioned in the certificate, shown above.

The Yayasan Indonesia Aikikai is the member of the IAF for Indonesia. IAF members are expected to send representatives and members to the Congress, where they can talk and train with other members and with instructors from the Aikikai Hombu. In my opinion this is an essential feature of postwar aikido and it is now much more of a two-way process between Japan and overseas organizations.

In the beginning pioneers started aikido and remained pioneers, without much contact with other groups or with the Aikikai Hombu. This is not entirely the fault of the pioneers, for I think that postwar aikido spread overseas too quickly. Living in Japan, as I do, I can see that cultural transplantation is a much more complex business than simply going to live in a country or importing a foreign culture, like a Japanese martial art. The Japanese aikido pioneers received no training whatever in living in a foreign culture: in fact gambaru, doing it the hard way, was seen as a virtue, but this has consequences, in the form of inflexible attitudes.

Best wishes,

[john_lord_b3]

According to this website

http://www.geocities.com/he_training/aikido.html

Prawira Wijaya sensei does not really change anything fundamental in the Aikido techniques he teaches today under the "Scientific Aikido" banner. The most obvious change is in the ranking system, on which there are none. Other differences are emphasis on reality-based self-defense scenario. They even trained Ukemi without tatami, and developed Aikido techniques to be used in cramped space (like inside an elevator and inside airplane cockpit).

For those so inclined with traditional Aikido, Wijaya sensei still teach the traditional Aikikai Aikido, with standard Mudansha-Yudansha, but only to very few selected people (by recommendation only). This is to avoid competition with the Yayasan Indonesia Aikikai, which he himself had helped to develop in the beginning.

I hope what he does in Indonesia are not forbidden by the Aikikai Hombu. What do you think, Professor?

[P Goldsbury]

I hope what he does in Indonesia are not forbidden by the Aikikai Hombu. What do you think, Professor?

Hello,

I think this is a matter for the Aikikai Hombu, rather than for me. My knowledge of aikido in Indonesia is largely based on what I read on websites and threads such as this one. So I do not want to state anything on a public website that will cause any loss of face either to Mr Prawira Wijaya, or to the Aikikai Hombu, or the Yayasan Indonesia Aikikai.

Best wishes,

[john_lord_b3]

I understand Professor. Sorry if my question is too direct. I should have remember "honne" and "tatemae" before asking. :)

[P Goldsbury]

I understand Professor. Sorry if my question is too direct. I should have remember "honne" and "tatemae" before asking. :)

No problem. If you want to continue the discussion, feel free to send me a Private Mail.

Best wishes,

[john_lord_b3]

I have dispatched a private message to you, Professor. Thank you for the permissions.