Hissho
6th November 2006, 03:59
Looked like Gendai Budo might be the place to put this, mods please move if it belongs somewhere else.
I had the opportunity (finally!) to meet Tim Cartmell in person and train with him in Seattle this weekend.
Tim Cartmell is a CMA practitioner who spent at least ten years in Taiwan and the PRC studying under highly regarded internal martial arts masters of Xing Yi, Tai Ji, and Ba Gua Zhang. During this time Tim competed in full contact fighting tournaments in Taiwan, when Taiwanese tournaments were notoriously rough.
He is also fluent in Chinese and has been studying the writings of the recognized internal martial arts masters, and translating their works and those of other masters (chin na, Chinese wrestling, and a soon to be released police tactics book from the 30s).
If this were not enough, Tim has put his "body skills" where is mouth (and keyboard) is, so to speak, and undertook the study of Brazilian jujutsu, in which he has applied internal martial arts principles to that groundfighting art (not as far fetched as those without BJJ experience may erroneously believe.) Tim is one of the vanguard of Americans who have earned black belts in BJJ, and one of even fewer who has done very well in a competitive format, winning the Copa several times and taking a silver medal in the 2005 Mundials. In BJJ terms, this is a major accomplishment.
Tim continues to test his principles under pressure by training with high level black belts and professional MMA fighters at his teacher's school, and by running an MMA gym in southern California, which he has been developing for a number of years.
Tim has been the subject of a Spotlight on Budo here on E-Budo:
http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14509
His website can be found at:
http://www.shenwu.com
I have followed Tim's writings since the days when I studied internal CMA, and watched his evolution closely, as it mirrored my own - his being at much headier levels. So I jumped at the chance to train with him. I was only able to attend the Saturday seminar, which involved Taiji oriented throws and later, BJJ.
Tim started with a brief overview of internal body mechanics, and certain principles of body management, and the management of the body of the opponent. He also discussed something that many Taiji practitioners are perhaps not even aware of: Taijiquan is a grappling art. Tim's research has shown him that 80% of Taiji is wrestling. Push hands was a sort of kumi kata in Taiji's practice, from which a wide variety of throwing techniques would flow. Over time, he believes that as skilled practitioners understood the application of throwing techniques amongst one another, that push hands essentially evolved into the somewhat benign pushing that we see today. It was a kind of "I know you got me on that one" type understanding, that avoided constantly being spiralled into the ground by your training partner. He believes that style of training eventually became par for the course, and over time the majority of practitioners simply stopped practicing real grappling and throwing, leading to what we see the bulk of Taiji practice is today.
We then practiced several "generic" throws based on Taiji principles. I found these very interesting, as they were analogous to judo throws but with a different entry and control (and without a gi). He stressed that internal throws in general do not rely on what can be termed kuzushi per se, and are not based on disrupting the attackers balance, rather they are based on disrupting the attacker's structure, and twisting him into the ground to his dead angle based on how his structure has been changed. Sticking with the whole body is critical in this aspect. (BJJ folks should start seeing the connections right about here...)
At the end of the session Tim opened it up for questions. Several folks asked specific questions about techniques from several Taiji styles. Tim showed how certain popular and well known moves from the forms are actually the entry to and follow through on several throws, several of which would be familiar to judoka, without a gi and a slightly different approach to "fitting in."
Tim explained how he has used these throwing principles on everyone from champion judoka to skilled wrestlers and grapplers in dojo grappling and in high level BJJ competition.
The BJJ session was also very enjoyable. Tim wrote the book on Passing the Guard (get it? :p ) and showed how posture and controlling the opponent's center is crucial to his approach to passing the guard. He then showed various follow ups to the guard pass. The overall level in the class was for most beginner level, so we concentrated on the very basics. This was beneficial even to the more experienced, as it is in the nuances that make the basics what even the world class experts rely on against equal or greater competition.
And then we rolled. The students rolled together, and then, befitting BJJ tradition, Tim rolled with EVERYONE for five minutes each. This means students of all sizes, and of varying degrees of skills (several with advanced martial arts experience in other arts).
This was but a light workout for Tim, all of 160 lbs soaking wet. And trust me, I TRIED giving him a hard time. I don't think he broke a sweat.
Rather he put on a clinic for how one can stay relaxed and use one's structure and flow to defeat whatever it is people throw at you. I have rolled with several black belts, some of whom have high level competition wins - Tim feels different - the same control but softer, the proverbial needle wrapped in cotton, as the Taiji classics call it.
Sounds like he may be coming up for more in the future. I strongly recommend any traditional jujutsuka or CMA practitioner spend some time with him. His traditional credentials are impeccable, and he "speaks the language." But unlike many, he has put it on the line to discover what its like to really fight against highly skilled, competitive opponents in verifiable open, public competition - something very few internet internal exponents can claim. This has perhaps unsurprisingly led him to a sort of "internal MMA."
I had the opportunity (finally!) to meet Tim Cartmell in person and train with him in Seattle this weekend.
Tim Cartmell is a CMA practitioner who spent at least ten years in Taiwan and the PRC studying under highly regarded internal martial arts masters of Xing Yi, Tai Ji, and Ba Gua Zhang. During this time Tim competed in full contact fighting tournaments in Taiwan, when Taiwanese tournaments were notoriously rough.
He is also fluent in Chinese and has been studying the writings of the recognized internal martial arts masters, and translating their works and those of other masters (chin na, Chinese wrestling, and a soon to be released police tactics book from the 30s).
If this were not enough, Tim has put his "body skills" where is mouth (and keyboard) is, so to speak, and undertook the study of Brazilian jujutsu, in which he has applied internal martial arts principles to that groundfighting art (not as far fetched as those without BJJ experience may erroneously believe.) Tim is one of the vanguard of Americans who have earned black belts in BJJ, and one of even fewer who has done very well in a competitive format, winning the Copa several times and taking a silver medal in the 2005 Mundials. In BJJ terms, this is a major accomplishment.
Tim continues to test his principles under pressure by training with high level black belts and professional MMA fighters at his teacher's school, and by running an MMA gym in southern California, which he has been developing for a number of years.
Tim has been the subject of a Spotlight on Budo here on E-Budo:
http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14509
His website can be found at:
http://www.shenwu.com
I have followed Tim's writings since the days when I studied internal CMA, and watched his evolution closely, as it mirrored my own - his being at much headier levels. So I jumped at the chance to train with him. I was only able to attend the Saturday seminar, which involved Taiji oriented throws and later, BJJ.
Tim started with a brief overview of internal body mechanics, and certain principles of body management, and the management of the body of the opponent. He also discussed something that many Taiji practitioners are perhaps not even aware of: Taijiquan is a grappling art. Tim's research has shown him that 80% of Taiji is wrestling. Push hands was a sort of kumi kata in Taiji's practice, from which a wide variety of throwing techniques would flow. Over time, he believes that as skilled practitioners understood the application of throwing techniques amongst one another, that push hands essentially evolved into the somewhat benign pushing that we see today. It was a kind of "I know you got me on that one" type understanding, that avoided constantly being spiralled into the ground by your training partner. He believes that style of training eventually became par for the course, and over time the majority of practitioners simply stopped practicing real grappling and throwing, leading to what we see the bulk of Taiji practice is today.
We then practiced several "generic" throws based on Taiji principles. I found these very interesting, as they were analogous to judo throws but with a different entry and control (and without a gi). He stressed that internal throws in general do not rely on what can be termed kuzushi per se, and are not based on disrupting the attackers balance, rather they are based on disrupting the attacker's structure, and twisting him into the ground to his dead angle based on how his structure has been changed. Sticking with the whole body is critical in this aspect. (BJJ folks should start seeing the connections right about here...)
At the end of the session Tim opened it up for questions. Several folks asked specific questions about techniques from several Taiji styles. Tim showed how certain popular and well known moves from the forms are actually the entry to and follow through on several throws, several of which would be familiar to judoka, without a gi and a slightly different approach to "fitting in."
Tim explained how he has used these throwing principles on everyone from champion judoka to skilled wrestlers and grapplers in dojo grappling and in high level BJJ competition.
The BJJ session was also very enjoyable. Tim wrote the book on Passing the Guard (get it? :p ) and showed how posture and controlling the opponent's center is crucial to his approach to passing the guard. He then showed various follow ups to the guard pass. The overall level in the class was for most beginner level, so we concentrated on the very basics. This was beneficial even to the more experienced, as it is in the nuances that make the basics what even the world class experts rely on against equal or greater competition.
And then we rolled. The students rolled together, and then, befitting BJJ tradition, Tim rolled with EVERYONE for five minutes each. This means students of all sizes, and of varying degrees of skills (several with advanced martial arts experience in other arts).
This was but a light workout for Tim, all of 160 lbs soaking wet. And trust me, I TRIED giving him a hard time. I don't think he broke a sweat.
Rather he put on a clinic for how one can stay relaxed and use one's structure and flow to defeat whatever it is people throw at you. I have rolled with several black belts, some of whom have high level competition wins - Tim feels different - the same control but softer, the proverbial needle wrapped in cotton, as the Taiji classics call it.
Sounds like he may be coming up for more in the future. I strongly recommend any traditional jujutsuka or CMA practitioner spend some time with him. His traditional credentials are impeccable, and he "speaks the language." But unlike many, he has put it on the line to discover what its like to really fight against highly skilled, competitive opponents in verifiable open, public competition - something very few internet internal exponents can claim. This has perhaps unsurprisingly led him to a sort of "internal MMA."